I may be mistaken, but I believe that's something that's currently in the works (fingers crossed). Or it's at least very requested by users.

Check out the System76 AMD Pangolin. System76 has many values in common with Framework.

https://system76.com/laptops/pangolin

The display is very disappointing apparently: https://old.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/m7cujq/pangolin_s...

Same here but for fan noise. Since I've gotten the m1 macbook air, I don't think I can go back to a laptop that runs hot and needs a fan.

In the event that I must get a non-m1 laptop, I can definitely see myself buying the framework laptop and putting ubuntu on it.

Ehn.. I used to be like you. Once I used Pixelbook, a superthin fanless device, I was in awe. Pixelbook Go was similar fanless device as well. But, then I realized that they have their limitations. With a fan, one can achieve much better performance when needed. So, now, I prefer a laptop that can passively cool for normal day to day work, and then for heavy workloads take advantage of the fan.

I got the framework laptop, which should be able to push the intel chip to the max 28 TDP. I heard the fan is big, and thus not annoying. I am curious to see how it will turn out (My batch 3 order gets delivered tomorrow).

Yeah I guess I don't have a ton of experience here outside of mac laptops, but the idea of a PC laptop that only kicks in the fans when truly intensive tasks are being run sounds pretty nice.

My experience has mostly been that when any work is being done, the fans spin up. It's jarring when you're trying to focus on the problem at hand.

You need to find your fan rpm/noise threshold. On my laptop the fan becomes noticeable above 2500rpm. Someone commented about adjusting the fan curve (I have no idea how), I just manually capped the CPU performance with a powersave profile instead.

Some PCs let you configure the fan curves. I have never done that though.

You're right about cooling for intel/amd, with the note that the M1 is a whole different beast - it can deliver good performance with only passive cooling anyway

Same here. I went from a thinkpad to an m1 air, and although the noise wasn’t something that bothered me before, I do appreciate its absence now. The battery life also is a big draw. I can go to the office without a charger, and it’s not a problem. I’ve never had a laptop that made it past half a workday.

It's a shame ARM isn't quite a first-class desktop architecture quite yet. I'd probably use one if my software ran on it. Otherwise, I figure in 10-15 years, when it is "fully featured," the architecture will have already been usurped by RISC-V.

I've never met someone before that cares about cpu fan noise. Genuinely. It never bothers me so I have never thought about it. Perhaps also because my workflow involves playing music when I work to make me more productive.

As someone who records lots of videos it is quite frustrating. The less noise the better.

My MacBooks have generally been quiet, but not silent. Having lived with the M1 MacBook Air since it came out, I _never_ want to go back to a fan. Silence is a luxury.

They likely used apple for a long time before this, and they had a ton of fan noise. So likely wasn't an issue previously.

Getting a noise less and fast laptop is a good improvement. It's like going from a fossil car to an electric one. So much less noise and vibrations. The noise is acceptable but it's annoying to go back.

As someone who bikes, electric cars make a lot of noise still when they're not going under 10km/hr.

The pre-M1 MacBook Air fan kicks in a lot and produces a lot of noise compared to other laptops IMO.

Yep. At this point in time it's the only choice.

While I would prefer AMD here, because it's Intel, you get Thunderbolt for free

Hopefully the next gen Ryzens will support USB4 which is basically Thunderbolt 3 without the brand name.

You cannot neutralize and disable the PSP spying module in AMD processors, while in Intel ones you can do that with ME: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Assert....

There's this great talk from a CCC about reverse engeneering the PSP: Uncover, Understand, Own - Regaining Control Over Your AMD CPU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKH5nGLgi08

At 47:10, they mention that they haven't found anything evil. Ofc, this isn't hard proof, but if I trust anyone's answer, then it's theirs. I think the likelihood of it being malicious is nonzero, but small enough that I'd condemn active backdoors into the realm of conspiracy theories.

There's always the possibility of it being exploited by others, but c'mon: Basically ANY other exploit would be way easier to distribute and activate than one in the PSP.

As much as I love speculating about backdoors and NSA wiretapping, I seriously doubt these MEs are malicious. At this point, managing a modern x86 is tough work, especially if you want to run virtualization, complex threading and maintain high efficiency. It makes total sense that there are mandatory supervisor chips at this point, and without any evidence that these chips are "phoning home," I simply have to assume that it's purpose is virtualized KVM for remote management. Worst case scenario, the CIA wakes up my laptop while I'm asleep, big whoop.

It does not even matter if they are actively malicious. They are closed, non-removable, with proven vulnerabilities (which not only CIA can use). What else do you need?

How do you know that the closed CPU microcode that all modern AMD and Intel CPU's use don't have backdoors and vulnerabilities?

I don't know that, but judging from the amount of code I would say it's less likely than in Intel ME.

How is that different from the Intel ones? Can they not be turned back on or injected again with a new ME?

If you're not getting the same consumer hardware security that NSA gets by default, you're cheated on. That's my opinion.

https://www.csoonline.com/article/3220476/researchers-say-no...

> managing a modern x86 is tough work

No. You can boot and run an x86 without ME and most of that other stuff.

> It makes total sense that there are mandatory supervisor chips at this point

ME, secure boot, UEFI have nothing to do with virtualization.

Bravo, I wish I could be this cavalier about a grave security issue.

I bought a TUXEDO Pulse 15. Very fast CPU, really low price and OK build quality.

EDIT: did I said something wrong? -2 votes already.

Same here.