NYC is the most strict, but they are also the most densely populated. Beyond that, I just don't feel like I've given up any rights.
Can't say the same about a shoeless, invasive patdown where a stranger runs their hand down your butt crack after having waited in line for an hour and gone through a nude scanner.
Fortunately, those restrictions were cancelled after 3 weeks, because you know, voting day is coming and we don't need angry citizens to vote against ruling party. But the infrastructure is there and it may be used again any time now.
It's very difficult to falsify death stats on a mass-scale especially in a country like the US.
Terrorism kills something like 28k/year whereas Covid has killed 5 million.
Same with comparing covid deaths to WWI deaths. On the one hand you have thousands of healthy 18-year-olds dying, and on the other you have thousands of elderly, obese, and sickly people dying. Not quite a fair comparison.
Even in the 25-44yr age range, we see a pretty significant increase in deaths: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm#F2_down
How a person can deny the existence of something that can test it personally?
No, they cratered the middle class while making the rich richer.
Now they know not to lock down to destroy the economy but instead push to destroy personal freedoms.
Isn’t this economic policy, not lockdown policy? Any government could decide to pay laborers 100% of their salary to stay out of work. They could decide “essential workers” would be paid on top of their salary as compensation for the risk and danger. They could deice that corporate profit during a shutdown would go to support laborers. Lockdowns only hurt the middle class and help the rich because the government chooses to force the middle class to stay home while not forcing the rich to stop profiteering off it.
This happens all the time in politics and it's infuriating.
You can't judge the effectiveness of a plan if the plan is modified as a shitty compromise or just plain ignored. But people do judge them, which makes those compromises an effective form of sabotage.
The economy is not destroyed. Assets are appreciating, GDP is growing faster than it has in a decade and employers are desperate to find workers. The unemployment rate is near 5%.
If there is a weak spot in the economy, it is that rising case numbers of the Delta variant are causing people to voluntarily limit their in-person activities. When you ask business leaders what can help the economy, they say “more people getting vaccinated” because it’s the fastest way to reduce new COVID cases.
I said middle class. Small business was destroyed. The corporations got richer.
How does your neighborhood look? All businesses still intact?
Not talking about the stock market.
Done properly, of course a lockdown would be effective. Why? Because of the Germ theory. The viruses exist and they don't teleport.
If anything, I would have much preferred if we had a month of global lockdown instead of years of slow burn battle. We wouldn't have had to convince people for vaccination too. It worked for Wuhan.
Vitamin D and open air works, not lock downs.
Allowing and encouraging people to go outside is the happy medium.
When you approach airport security (theater) you wonder what their capabilities are _today_. Are they sniffing the air at large with their GCMS? Is there going to be a dog today? Its intimidating to think of it as a theoretical attacker because of its large and multifaceted apparatus, which is part of its deterrent power.
Masks are somewhat similar, they have a vanishingly small chance of actually intercepting a virus particle/droplet that was going to infect you on a case by case basis BUT they make people approach you differently. They say "stand back".
It was done by picking a population of 350K, then separating them to test and control groups, encourage mask for the test group.
The results are that at 39% mask use in the test group the covid cases were %12 lower than the control group.
There was also a difference between surgical mask(%12) and cloth mask(%9) use.
[0] https://twitter.com/Jabaluck/status/1433036933400305673/phot...
When you wear a mask (as I do) in addition to blocking some particles you signal to others "lets play the not kill eachother game by limiting virus vectors!"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2013_Volgograd_bomb...
Take a peek at a hospital if you have some time.
And vaccines and etc are backed by science?
[0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-...
[1] https://www.npr.org/2021/01/26/960872502/2020-firearm-catch-...
Edit: Since some HN commenters want to play disingenuous games and insert words into my mouth, I’ll clarify my specific problem is with these apps having zero standards. If my state makes its own app or devises a law to prosecute this kind of use of private data, I would have less of a problem with it as a temporary measure.
if you did not get that option, that sucks, and it sounds a bit inconvenient, but, uh, yeah, over 600,000 people in the US have died so far, i don't think that's a "scare", that sounds like a valid concern to me.
also your data is almost assuredly at 20 different marketing analytics firms already, regardless of how secure or open-source the digital vaccine record is.
If you think vaccine passports are bad just wait until you hear about all phones...
Tell me again how it's different.
This amount of disrespect is unwarranted.
> when discussing homeless people being told to move somewhere cheaper.
What an absolutely insane whataboutism. This has nothing to do with what we're discussing and you look like a joke. You're asserting that vaccine passports infringe upon your freedoms. Just don't go to those bars. Jesus.
Now you can't go to any bars. That hurts minorities the most as they are the most unvaccinated.
Its new world segregation essentially.
But yes those people could just pick up and move, and many are. Look at the numbers.
Unfortunately many cannot because they aren't on a SWE salary.
Also calling me a nazi isn't really appropriate, I don't think.
If you're okay with forcing people to show their medical history to drink, I think you can handle a word being thrown at you. Nazi.
This is the obvious troll. You're not forced to show anything _to drink_. You're forced to comply with a business's requirements as per their rights, to be allowed to drink _in their establishment_.
Also please go back to reddit if you cannot resist the urge to call names.
The mRNA vaccines are especially worrisome to some because they are relatively new and aren't fully approved in the US (where I live).
I have a co-morbidity and by the time I was eligible to get vaccinated it looked obvious to me that I'd be better off getting it based on how well they were performing and how low the risk appeared. Things could have turned out wildly different with vaccines that turned out to be both mostly ineffective and potentially dangerous, causing me to assess things differently.
I encourage my friends who aren't vaccinated to get jabbed, but I have no wish to have the government force them to get a medical procedure they specifically don't want.
Natural immunity as I mentioned before.
Religious reasons.
Just because. You don't need a reason, it's your body.
The reason is to help protect and care for your fellow human beings.
"It's your body" only counts if what you're doing with it isn't putting unconsenting others at risk. Forgoing the vaccine without a solid medical reason is putting others at risk.
By your logic, you should be able to punch anyone in the face at any time, because your fist is part of your body, and "it's your body".
Not according to pro-abortion stances.
If you want to get the vaccine, it should protect you. If you can't there are therapeutics. You don't need to force others to inject mRNA shots into them.
Your analogy was awful. Such a false equivalency, there's nothing even remotely the same about that example.
The point of vaccines is to help protect society at large, not so much you specifically. Failing to take reasonable steps that help keep your friends and neighbors safe is simply reprehensible.
As far as I know, natural immunity is conferred if and only if you've recovered from the virus. And one of the goals of the vaccine is to avoid getting it in the first place. But to get natural immunity, you have to be infected first. It seems a bit like burning down your house to prevent arson from a stranger. Have I misunderstood "natural immunity"?
If you don't want to catch the virus, get the vaccine. Don't worry about others.
They will get the virus and then get natural immunity. People will have adverse reactions to both covid and the vaccine. Let them weigh the risk to which one.
One downside of this though, is that ICU beds are full. I'll also hope I don't need one. I very rarely have before, so I'll probably be ok.
Only if they, y'know, survive, and only after being a nuisance to the healthcare system that the rest of rely on
You've got a point that verifiable natural immunity as of _now_ should probably be acceptable in lieu of vaccination (though efficacy against variants is worth considering) for mandates.
Offering 'natural immunity' as an option to the currently un-vaccinated un-infected population is just crazy. People will assume the risk, get sick, got to hospital, and die. Just ignoring those 'others' isn't an option for public-health since the downside costs of the risk they assume are borne by everyone in the form of healthcare burden. 'They' still expect to be a priority when they get sick...
I don't understand what that means.
What happened to thinking of other people?
When I think of getting a vaccine... I just do it as a part of normal life. It doesn't change my life at all, outside of added immunity.
That's exactly my point. You aren't thinking, you're just following.
> What happened to thinking of other people?
My point as well. It's the same "think of the children" argument that was being discussed above.
That itself is not a reason. People have immunity. The curve is flattened, the goal posts have been moved out of the stadium.
You're talking about "aren't thinking" but most of your posts just involve nebulous throw away phrases like "People have immunity"... clearly you know that phrase doesn't mean anything right?
In the meantime we can all see for ourselves actual impact, real things, in areas where vaccination rates are low. These aren't nebulous concepts like your phrases, they're real.
Case numbers! Case numbers! Hospital rates are NEARLY at capacity!!!!
Yeah that has been said over and over. Things are fine.
Go outside of the city, noone respects this stuff and hasn't the whole time, noone is dying more than usual.
Worry about cars and obesity if you want to make a difference.
just because rural folks don’t care the hospital is full doesn’t mean the hospital isn’t full
All the fear mongering articles say is the ICU is at 90%~
They are always around that number. Show me the percentage of covid patients in that ICU. Show me the normal number of the ICU.
Worry about obesity if you want to stop the number one and two killers of humans and relieve our healthcare system.
Don't believe anything you read on Reddit, especially anecdotes.
I'm not saying I believe everything I read on Reddit, but I know r/nursing is a longtime subreddit of mostly medical people and has a history of being as such for a long time. If I wanted to know what the actual medical field is dealing with day to day, I think a community with a history of being where healthcare people talk about what they're dealing with day to day is a pretty good bet.
I guess Reddit only gets one type of anecdote. I doubt the other side gets voted up and probably even removed.
How are you quantifying that? The original intent of flattening the curve was to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system and here we are... overwhelming the healthcare system(s) again. A quick check of capacity of ICU beds in the SE USA shows that on average, hospitals are running 92% capacity(1). Obviously you want right-sized ICU capacity, but I doubt 92% is a comfortable margin.
(1)https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-...
In Europe getting the decease and beating it is considered good enough for immunity. Talk to your local authorities if you are not happy with your local practices.
The vaccines on the other hand are much more practical and safer. They seem to lose some efficacy over time against getting covid but the results against getting seriously ill are very promising. Which probably means, if you get Covid-19 naturally later on, it would be a natural booster with much lower risk compared to a non-vaxxed person.
Others have agreed with me, they either get greyed out or flagged. Even in this thread, look below.
I'm sorry the majority follows blindly and can't see the similarities between the loss of freedom after 9/11 and covid.