Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by PhantomGremlin on Monday September 06, 2021 @06:05PM
(#28438622)
it's not as easy as it looks
I'd love to see Apple try, even if it's just for the lulz.
Apple struggled for years to deliver a functioning laptop keyboard. A car is a bit more complicated.
How many dongles would you need to buy before the car had reasonable functionality? Would the power source be optional?
The other confounding factor is that an Apple car might feature "self driving". I'd also lol at that, but Musk has demonstrated that vaporware is quite acceptable there.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by lostlogin on Monday September 06, 2021 @11:46PM
(#28440728)
> Apple struggled for years to deliver a functioning laptop keyboard. A car is a bit more complicated.
One of the biggest car makers found it cheaper to pay out for customers that got burned up by faulty cars, as fixing them all was too expensive.
Apple choosing to sort its keyboard issues in a way that initially didn’t include fixing a bad design would appear to be following a well trodden path.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by sircastor on Monday September 06, 2021 @07:04PM
(#28439084)
Automotive is super hard. Unlike tech, it’s a very heavily regulated industry in the United States.
Apple is the kind of company that doesn’t enter a market unless they feel like they have something to contribute. If they’re jumping into this market, they’re making sure what they’re doing is going to get them where they want to be.
The Apple car has gone from “sure thing” to “cancelled” and back. I would not even bet on its assured release at this point.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by tonyedgecombe on Thursday September 09, 2021 @11:42AM
(#28470920)
My guess is Apple looked at the trend of increasing technology in cars and how poorly equipped the existing manufacturers are to deliver on that then decided they could do better.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by sebastien_b on Monday September 06, 2021 @06:02PM
(#28438596)
When they make an acceptable product:
- easily serviceable (not just by Apple, like for example getting windshield fluid refilled - no, I’m serious)
- properly usable; you shouldn’t have to flip it over to charge it (like their current mice) and other silly things like that.
Given how much of a control freak Apple is, and how their motto is basically that they’ll tell you what you want (instead of simply giving you what you want), until that changes drastically (read: management changes), I don’t see a release happening anytime soon (unless they want to risk it potentially being another flop[1]).
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by mwint on Monday September 06, 2021 @07:57PM
(#28439402)
Egads, the mouse thing again, I thought that myth had died. I have one. I charge it for about five minutes a month. It complains when it hits 10% and I plug it in while I make morning coffee.
It’s fine.
Apple has made many real mistakes, let’s focus on those.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by jamil7 on Wednesday September 08, 2021 @11:47AM
(#28458796)
> It’s fine.
Yeah it's not the worst but it still removed functionality from a product for arbitrary reasons. Jony Ive just didn't seem to understand/care how people actually use a mouse with both the magic mouse and the hockey puck mouse.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by sebastien_b on Monday September 06, 2021 @08:20PM
(#28439520)
> It complains when it hits 10% and I plug it
10%? Wow, you're lucky - mine consistently only lets me know when it's down to 1%, and only once I need to use it, like now.
For all its $billions spent on their other stuff, you'd think they could hire someone to figure out a better mechanism to let the user know when they should charge their device. As someone once (sarcastically) posted on the MacInTouch (RIP) forums (I'll paraphrase):
"It so unfortunate that Apple can't come up with anything that would analyze the user's use of the device, and predict when it should be charged based on that usage... some learning computer of some kind...."
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by DevKoala on Monday September 06, 2021 @06:15PM
(#28438697)
What the customer wants is not often what they need, listening to your customers without understanding what they need can be the killer of innovation.
Henry Ford has a famous quote:
> If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses
I don’t think anybody needed a mouse that needs to be flipped to be charged. However, among the dozen things Apple got terribly wrong, there are also a handful ones that they got so right, that became fundamental pillars of technology.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by DevKoala on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @04:59AM
(#28442556)
Well, I’ll be damned. Apparently the famous product designer I borrowed the “fact” from also mentioned the quote was “dubiously” attributed to Henry Ford.
I believe my point still stands, but yes it was incorrect of me to use the quote as if Henry Ford said it.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by johnny_b_g on Monday September 06, 2021 @06:52PM
(#28439009)
All this means is that they're adept at parting fools from their money with "feel-good" marketing and such, to benefit their shareholders (those are their "real customers", not the consumers of their stuff), and to benefit themselves - huge bonuses etc., and have you seen their campus? That kind of opulence is on the same level as Trump's gold toilets.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by johnny_b_g on Monday September 06, 2021 @08:59PM
(#28439723)
> Dell sells like 30 different laptops. Apple sells 3.
So Dell offers 30 different choices in price/feature ranges, from lowest to highest. Apple only offers at most 3 - likely all in the more expensive range.
Kinda fits and confirms the "telling you want you want" mentioned above.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by Spooky23 on Monday September 06, 2021 @10:06PM
(#28440069)
Apple historically has been a tiny player in terms of share. They are able to punch over their weight and be profitable making hardware. The original iMac, at the company’s nadir, was the #1 computer model, which gave them supply chain advantages in the market.
The other thing is that while Dell is stuck with Windows, Apple owns a few platforms. They sell cheap iPads as their entry product.
You may not like the strategy or the particulars of it at a given time (ie shipping a defective keyboard for years for inscrutable reasons), but they have a differentiated strategy because that’s what makes sense to them. They are not a commodity. Dell, HP, Lenovo can’t do that because they are merely a channel for delivering Windows - just like Exxon or BP are middlemen brokering gasoline, the only way to make more money is to ship more stuff.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by adoxyz on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @04:52PM
(#28449787)
If I recall the mouse decision was deliberate to avoid people having the mouse plugged in all the time. So it was more of a planned user experience rather than apple not knowing what they're doing (for better or worse). Besides the mouse charges in like 5 minutes anyway.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by ixacto on Monday September 06, 2021 @10:37PM
(#28440266)
Tesla tells you what parts that can be replaced on your car, along with a ton of privacy invasion.
Predictions:
Tesla is the new Android of cars
Apple is the apple of cars
Apple doubles market cap to 5.0T by 2030-2035. The cap jump will be due to the introduction of the iCar and also getting non-invasive blood glucose monitoring to work. Just a guess.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by xyzzy21 on Monday September 06, 2021 @07:47PM
(#28439350)
A major distraction from what they actually know how to do.
There are still so many things undone with their current product line but I guess they can't see the forest for the trees at this point, leadership-wise.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by runawaybottle on Monday September 06, 2021 @09:32PM
(#28439889)
If every car on the road needs to be replaced with an EV/Hybrid Self-driving-assist over the next three decades, then the automotive industry is a growth industry like tech. That means, if you simply try, you can get a piece of the pie.
Re:Ask HN: When is Apple's EV going to be released?
by sebastien_b on Monday September 06, 2021 @10:11PM
(#28440094)
> every car on the road needs to be replaced with an EV/Hybrid
What needs to happen is for [almost] every car on the road to be replaced. Period.
We need better transit systems. We need better developed urban areas. We don't need yet another car manufacturer pushing for more car ownership (most of which sit idle for 99% of the time, requiring massive land areas to accommodate).
Car ownership as it currently stands (polluting or not) is not sustainable.
Automotive is a hard game both in engineering and in building a reliable supply chain.
Tim Cook can definitely boast a track record when it comes to supply chain so they are in a _better_ place than Dyson at a guess.
here's an interesting thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/pgl51b/apple_reported...
I'd love to see Apple try, even if it's just for the lulz.
Apple struggled for years to deliver a functioning laptop keyboard. A car is a bit more complicated.
How many dongles would you need to buy before the car had reasonable functionality? Would the power source be optional?
The other confounding factor is that an Apple car might feature "self driving". I'd also lol at that, but Musk has demonstrated that vaporware is quite acceptable there.
One of the biggest car makers found it cheaper to pay out for customers that got burned up by faulty cars, as fixing them all was too expensive.
Apple choosing to sort its keyboard issues in a way that initially didn’t include fixing a bad design would appear to be following a well trodden path.
Apple is the kind of company that doesn’t enter a market unless they feel like they have something to contribute. If they’re jumping into this market, they’re making sure what they’re doing is going to get them where they want to be.
The Apple car has gone from “sure thing” to “cancelled” and back. I would not even bet on its assured release at this point.
I'm doubtful as well.
- easily serviceable (not just by Apple, like for example getting windshield fluid refilled - no, I’m serious)
- properly usable; you shouldn’t have to flip it over to charge it (like their current mice) and other silly things like that.
Given how much of a control freak Apple is, and how their motto is basically that they’ll tell you what you want (instead of simply giving you what you want), until that changes drastically (read: management changes), I don’t see a release happening anytime soon (unless they want to risk it potentially being another flop[1]).
[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28438754
It’s fine.
Apple has made many real mistakes, let’s focus on those.
Yeah it's not the worst but it still removed functionality from a product for arbitrary reasons. Jony Ive just didn't seem to understand/care how people actually use a mouse with both the magic mouse and the hockey puck mouse.
10%? Wow, you're lucky - mine consistently only lets me know when it's down to 1%, and only once I need to use it, like now.
For all its $billions spent on their other stuff, you'd think they could hire someone to figure out a better mechanism to let the user know when they should charge their device. As someone once (sarcastically) posted on the MacInTouch (RIP) forums (I'll paraphrase):
"It so unfortunate that Apple can't come up with anything that would analyze the user's use of the device, and predict when it should be charged based on that usage... some learning computer of some kind...."
Henry Ford has a famous quote:
> If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses
I don’t think anybody needed a mouse that needs to be flipped to be charged. However, among the dozen things Apple got terribly wrong, there are also a handful ones that they got so right, that became fundamental pillars of technology.
False: https://checkyourfact.com/2019/10/10/fact-check-henry-ford-q... and https://medium.com/@adrianh/faster-horses-50ff8bb1bb62
I believe my point still stands, but yes it was incorrect of me to use the quote as if Henry Ford said it.
- iPod Hifi (which Jobs claimed would completely replace his audio gear )
- the butterfly keyboard
- the touchbar
- the original (uber pricey) Homepod
- the trash can (also pricey) Mac Pro
- and I’m pretty sure in a few years’ time we’ll all be looking back at how stupid the “notch” was
It’s hard to square comments like this with things like the M1 - what should the fools be buying instead?
But their ability to sell a full line of computing devices with so few SKUs is pretty amazing. Dell sells like 30 different laptops. Apple sells 3.
So Dell offers 30 different choices in price/feature ranges, from lowest to highest. Apple only offers at most 3 - likely all in the more expensive range.
Kinda fits and confirms the "telling you want you want" mentioned above.
The other thing is that while Dell is stuck with Windows, Apple owns a few platforms. They sell cheap iPads as their entry product.
You may not like the strategy or the particulars of it at a given time (ie shipping a defective keyboard for years for inscrutable reasons), but they have a differentiated strategy because that’s what makes sense to them. They are not a commodity. Dell, HP, Lenovo can’t do that because they are merely a channel for delivering Windows - just like Exxon or BP are middlemen brokering gasoline, the only way to make more money is to ship more stuff.
Predictions: Tesla is the new Android of cars
Apple is the apple of cars
Apple doubles market cap to 5.0T by 2030-2035. The cap jump will be due to the introduction of the iCar and also getting non-invasive blood glucose monitoring to work. Just a guess.
There are still so many things undone with their current product line but I guess they can't see the forest for the trees at this point, leadership-wise.
They need to hurry up.
What needs to happen is for [almost] every car on the road to be replaced. Period.
We need better transit systems. We need better developed urban areas. We don't need yet another car manufacturer pushing for more car ownership (most of which sit idle for 99% of the time, requiring massive land areas to accommodate).
Car ownership as it currently stands (polluting or not) is not sustainable.