> invention of 4chan

They set out to transform a symbol, and they succeeded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK_gesture#White_power_symbol

If you think it isn't real because it was made up, Vonnegut's Mother Night has you covered: "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”

They only succeeded if you let them. And if you do I'm going to think less of you for enabling them.

Right now this new 'perception' is pretty limited to a certain US-centric news bubble. Everyone outside that bubble in the US, and generally people everywhere else, are likely to laugh in your face if you tried to convince them the OK gesture is a hate symbol now.

Your average person hasn't even heard of this inane controversy. I for one have to seek out the kind of demographic who thinks that way online - because nowhere else could I even find anyone.

The same people blaring on about them somehow "taking over" a common symbol were, not so long ago, trying to claim that the same scumbags had somehow 'taken over milk' as a symbol of white supremacy.

It's impossible to take these claims seriously. The media will publish anything that gets clicks, no matter how exaggerated or even fabricated, the people making up these claims know they'll get instant coverage and spread their 'cause', and the people spreading the idea that some loser somewhere saying "uh, the middle finger stands for the monolithic purity of the white race" is actually a threat to the fabric of society just enjoy having another thing to be morally panicked by.

That same hand symbol has been super offensive in Germany for decades, but for scatological reasons, not white power ones.

The swastika was a symbol of good luck, the infinity of creation and the unconquered, revolving sun for millennia. Now it's the symbol of the Nazi party and their atrocities. It's not fair, but that's how symbols work. Their meanings can change when new meanings are ascribed to them.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/18/ok-sign-white...

If a bunch of far-right dipshits want to rally around a cartoon frog and what used to be an innocuous hand gesture, then the meaning of those symbols is going to shift. You're the one playing into their hand. You're the one letting the cryptos remain crypto, instead of illuminating and naming their behavior, for shame.

I think you're seeing a slightly different narrative. 4chan decided to make people upset about the hand sign, some major news networks obediently expressed outrage, and a whole lot of people who actively dislike said news channels discovered a whole new way to generate headlines.

They were so successful at marketing the idea that the "ok" sign meant White Power that white nationalists started using it that way and the meaning shifted. And since a lot of the 4chan people are deeply racist they were basically saying "let's take over this symbol". And they succeeded.

As far as I know 4chan people were trolling the media and they succeeded. The result is both funny and scary. The scary part is that random people's lives are harmed because of some innocent photo or gesture. This insanity stems not only from media but also the new culture. Hopefully when going back to normality we will not swing too much to the other side.

You're completely ignoring the fact, started in the comment as well, that white nationalists have widely adopted the signal subsequently

It's funny because that sign represents "allah" :) if I was into conspiracy I would say there's a 4chan elite directing hilarious ops inside 4chan

4chan generally produces some of the most objectively hilarious scenarios. I recommend watching the "He will not divide us" series by Internet Historian on Youtube.

By this logic, you should start using racial slurs in a positive way.

No. This gentleman is not, and was not, a white supremacist: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-ove...

He didn't lose his job because of 4chan, but because of ostensibly well-intentioned midwits who believe "4chan succeeded in transforming a symbol" and "fake things can be real". Truly, this type of rationalization is the Bell Curve meme in action.

He was fired because of the reaction -- engineered by 4chan -- of over-intellectualizing social justice nabobs who attend rallies and protests. You guys were literally told the punchline of the joke and still walked right into it.

Maybe not, but this guy sure is: https://www.axios.com/christchuch-attacks-brenton-tarrant-15...

Obviously the twitter hive-mind went too far in singling this one guy out, and SDG&E colossally fucked up in not doing basic due diligence before firing him. That doesn't change the fact though that there are people out there who do indeed use the hand sign to unironically mean exactly the things that 4chan set out to convince people that it meant. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending otherwise is nothing short of willful ignorance.

Amazing.

The false information that this gesture means anything has everything to do with that man being fired, and contributes absolutely nothing to the awfulness of the Christchurch shooting, but you feel there is somehow an equivalence? Not only that, but you think there's moral superiority afforded to you for making this observation?

It is an amazing way to show how paranoid people are over "dogwhistles." Witches are everywhere!

People want to have something to fear or wave pitchforks at. It's simple mob psychology, and it's scary.

Perhaps you'd care to explain why this guy has it emblazoned on his helmet. As I have pointed out many times, simply ignoring people whose ideas you find disagreeable doesn't necessarily make them go away.

https://theintercept.imgix.net/wp-uploads/sites/1/2021/08/08...

For the same reason people like him fly the Army of Northern Virginia Battle Flag (which was carried into battle against the Nazis). It makes people like you upset, which is hilarious to them.

Are you saying I should ignore that this guy and his ilk have a habit of beating on people, because they're just trolling?

Let's see, that flag was used for:

1. An army supporting the continuation of the enslavement of black peoples.

2. A group (KKK) who would ride out and lynch black people.

3. A very small number of people who fought Nazis.

4. Neo-nazis.

1 out of 4 isn't bad, I suppose...

I'm not defending the flag, just explaining that outrage over symbols simply makes the symbols more powerful. It was flown by some very good people at one point, and I think that bears mentioning, given the context.

Because we're all idiots who got taken in on this by 4chan.

The symbol became irresistible to that guy after watching liberals lose their minds at it. If it hadn't bothered the libs, it would have no use to him.

> The Trump crowd is made up of bullies, trolls, middle class frat boys and other antisocials

And millions of others who don't fit a single one of those othering statements

> And horse medicine.

Also human medicine for several decades, with perfectly safe dosages and formulations.

Please don't spread misinformation.

Nicely twisted, BUT:

- the aforementioned crowd’s ”others” are being deceived in many ways, and my ”othering statements” are just fine to describe people who enable the aforementioned ”non-others” (also, is ”others” not an othering statement? why don’t you call them marks instead?)

- Ivermectin is indeed safe for humans to take, BUT people are indeed taking the HORSE formulation, not the HUMAN formulation

- Ivermectin may even show slight effectiveness against active covid infection, BUT the jury is still very much out on that one

I think you're missing the point that they would have just rolled with some different symbol instead. People like this don't become violent as a result of liberals losing their minds, obviously.

Semantic quibbling over the provenance of the symbol is a distraction from the violent ethos and activities of those who adopted it.

The leader of the proud boys once stuck a dildo up his ass, on stage, in order to "own the libs". It's documented, you can look it up.

I think you're underestimating lib owning as a motivational factor for these guys.

But witches are obviously fictional, whereas white supremists are very real.

Do white supremists float?

Not sure why you claim witches aren't real. I know plenty of witches. While they may not be green skinned and fly on broomsticks that melt in water, there are plenty of people that call themselves witches nevermind whatever characture you have in mind.

The "witches" people were afraid of during the witch-trials were accused of worshiping and consorting with the devil to cast harmful spells or undermine the Christian virtue of a community. Those witches were the product of mass hysteria and opportunistic hatred, and almost certainly never existed.