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Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by EvanAnderson on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:43PM (#28248139)
As I've said before, it's time to wipe the slate on SSN's. They are de facto public anyway. A date should be announced when the entire database will be published. After that date all liability for fraud perpetrated using an SSN as a shared "secret" will be assigned to the party who accepted the SSN as "authentication". That would solve the problem.

As an aside: When it comes to an authentication source to take the place of silly shared public "secrets" I think it would be great if the United States Postal Service "pivoted" into issuing digital certificates to individuals. They already have infrastructure and procedures in place for identity verification and physical delivery. I suppose that's too much like a federally-issued ID to ever fly, though our "REAL ID" drivers licenses are, in effect, a federal ID anyway. I'd rather have a digital certificate out of the deal too.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by codegeek on Friday August 20, 2021 @02:01PM (#28249287)
I think that we need to somehow make it harder for companies to request SSN if that continues to be a "secret". I cannot tell you how many times a Doctor's office casually asks for an SSN on a sheet of paper in plain text and I am like Why. I always fight that and found out that in a lot of cases, they just have it there and they didn't care when I didn't fill it. Some of them do force me (probably for credit/billing reasons) but I always try not to fill it out.

Also why are these phone companies persisting SSNs in database ? Why can't they run the credit check initially and discard the SSN. There should be laws around this and enforced. It is time to hold these companies accountable. We are so tired of being worried that our ID may get stolen.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by njarboe on Friday August 20, 2021 @07:46PM (#28252665)
The solution to not being "worried that our ID may get stolen" is penalize companies who report false information to credit bureaus and penalize credit bureaus that give out false information. You don't care if someone impersonates you to a lender and a bank or mattress store loses money to a fraudster. You care that the company that lost the money can erroneously report that you defaulted on a loan to the credit bureaus and then the credit bureaus mark down your credit worthiness. This affects your cost on loans, ability to rent an apartment, get a job, etc. The "Fair Credit Act of 1970" gave credit bureaus immunity from liability from reporting false information as long as they don't to it on purpose and in exchange they have to give people access to the reports and fix errors (very hard to do in practice).

People were rightfully worried in recently emerging computer age that these credit agencies would have secret dossiers on everyone. At least this law let people look at them and in theory correct them.

It probably time to revisit that 50 year old act. I'm not sure how much lenders even use the standard scores anymore. Many calculate their own scores and probably include all sorts of info that we would be mad about them using if we knew what it was.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by jader201 on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:07PM (#28250109)
Ironically, having it in plain text on a piece of paper in some random doctor’s office is much more secure than having it hashed in some website’s database.

Possibly even more secure than that same doctor having it in their system.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by silisili on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:49PM (#28250610)
Good point. But realize it's only on that paper for a few mins before being typed into their system.

Doctor's offices are so archaic at times. Only a handful let me do the forms online in advance. And even those have more paper for me to waste when I arrive.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by undersuit on Friday August 20, 2021 @07:11PM (#28252421)
A public system to enter data into, probably some sort of SAS or COT for most practices, has got to introduce far more insecurities than having the clerical staff enter it into the same backend the public system has to interact with.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by georgyo on Friday August 20, 2021 @07:42PM (#28252647)
Dumpster diving is a thing.

In almost all cases, someone is entering what you hand wrote into a system; and then they discard the paper copy.

If they shred it that's great, but dumpster diving at medical offices has made the news many many times.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by cftm on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:57PM (#28250680)
Blame the insurance companies - most major insurance companies use your SSN as a mechanism for identifying the patient. The member ID #'s can be used but it's quicker to just input the SSN.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by codegeek on Friday August 20, 2021 @04:00PM (#28250718)
But they already get a copy of our Insurance Cards. Shouldn't that be enough ?
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by xxpor on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:55PM (#28250668)
When I got my Covid shot at Safeway they asked for it. I just didn't fill it out and no one even asked for it. I still had the record show up in Washington's vaccination DB, so it wasn't for that either.

I hope them asking for it didn't discourage someone without an SSN from getting their shot, since immigration status isn't relevant to eligibility.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by meowster on Friday August 20, 2021 @04:29PM (#28251042)
I always leave it blank on the forms at doctor's offices and other medical facilities, no one has ever brought it up and asked for it.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by landemva on Friday August 20, 2021 @11:35PM (#28253951)
Cable and phone and electric seem trained to ask for SSN. I politely say no, and we move on.

People volunteered the leaked info. Just say no.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by mancerayder on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:54PM (#28248306)
I agree, but I am afraid that our two party system, which is incentivized to 'politicize' (I dislike that broad term) everything, it would be quite hard. The one party proposes it, the other party will find "reasons" why it's either government overreach, or discriminatory, or something something something depending on the ideology. Purported ideology. Most likely it's another horse that gets debated in debates about a package of other things.

But yes, I wish we could be as modern as some European countries. I haven't heard of these identity theft issues in France, where everyone has a national identity card.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by barbazoo on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:58PM (#28248345)
In Germany the postal service does what GP described by validating someone's identity for various purposes

> Deutsche Post offers a secure identity check service – to millions of users every year.

> On behalf of your contracting party

> To ensure that only identified persons have access to sensitive services

> To sensitive services including those from the financial services sector (such as opening an online bank account), telecommunications (activating a prepaid SIM card), health care (access to health information) or the mobility industry (including car sharing).

https://www.deutschepost.de/en/p/postident.html

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by gumby on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:52PM (#28249167)
Let me point out that this service should not be necessary: every german ID has a physical key infrastructure necessary for any shop or vendor to do this with a local terminal, yet the enabling legislation deliberately didn’t instruct the government to build out any ecosystem.

Compare this with, say, Estonia where practically everything can be handled through the keys in the ID card.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by EvanAnderson on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:44PM (#28249060)
Stories about foreign countries and their societal infrastructure, as an American, make me really envious and sad for my country's state of affairs.

It's kind of like the feeling I get looking at somebody with a very nice car or house: "Oh, it would be neat to have such a thing but there's no way I'd ever splurge and get that." It's difficult for me to conceive of some things other countries have as just being "normal".

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by kanbara on Friday August 20, 2021 @04:13PM (#28250861)
only issue with Postident is that they are annoying and weren't accepting certain passports for foreign nationals for a time. also, they have an online system you can sort-of use now but also not really, and you cannot use a valid permanent residence card even tho it's issued by the german govt... it _is_ pretty alright though
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by mistrial9 on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:51PM (#28249135)
it is selection bias -- the people with miserable and oppressive systems do not report it in detail, in English, on YNews right?

second, many systems of law treat individuals quite differently.. many systems that are not repeated in detail, on YNews, do not give much choice to an individual by design

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by EvanAnderson on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:58PM (#28249259)
I'm not suggesting that the United States is particularly bad. There are definitely many places in the world that are much worse off from so many perspectives (lack of rule of law, system of governance, economy, social safety net, class mobility, corruption, etc).

It could be better in so many ways, though, too. It would be nice if younger people (say, sub-70) would (and could be permitted to) take up the mantles of leadership.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by nitrogen on Friday August 20, 2021 @04:11PM (#28250845)
It would be nice if younger people (say, sub-70) would (and could be permitted to) take up the mantles of leadership.

I'd really like to read a speculative fiction/scifi where every generation operates under its own system of laws, and you can opt in to a neighboring generation's laws instead once every N years or something.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by all2 on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:49PM (#28249119)
Why is activating a pre-paid sim card a "sensitive service"?
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by jdavis703 on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:57PM (#28250681)
To mitigate criminal activity ranging from stolen phones, to cellphone-activated bombs to evading wiretaps. I’m not arguing this is a good reason, but likely the reason this exists as a requirement.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by PoignardAzur on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:31PM (#28250375)
There's still some identity theft issues, because "everyone asks your SSN for no reason" becomes "everyone asks for a scan of your id for no reason".

For instance, when I was looking for an appartment, the State had a service to both authenticate and watermark some documents (id and proof of income, among others).

The watermark was a bunch of big bars with "this is intended for rental search" written on them. Kinda low-tech, and it feels like a creative attacker could use software to strip them out, but it's cool they did that.

In theory, we have some very good APIs for securely authenticating someone (France Connect in particular), in practice administrations are slow to adopt them.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by r-w on Friday August 20, 2021 @04:38PM (#28251132)
This is the problem with having the public and private key be the same. Anyone should be able to access your public key, and anyone you deal with should be able to ask you to use your private key to verify your identity. The problem is when that entire process is reduced to "give us the number the government uses to ensure you're you. Don't worry, we won't use it to convince anyone else we're you ;) Or leak it so anyone else can do the same ;) ;) ;)"
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by unanswered on Friday August 20, 2021 @05:59PM (#28251883)
> Anyone should be able to access your public key, and anyone you deal with should be able to ask you to use your private key to verify your identity.

First, let's assume the identity would be backed by a somewhat decentralized system; e.g. the identity could be backed by any state/territory's existing ID cards.

The problem is making the request signing step secure and accessible to... well, anyone, tech-savvy folks included. Software for installation to a computer is an obvious no-go. A mobile app is probably a good idea but in any case I think we can assume a website will be a necessity. You've got to be able to give that website your private key. Guess what, you've already lost - as soon you tell people to type their key into this website, people will type their private key into any old website now. (I remember when my mom, with the best of intentions but without my prior knowledge, filled out my FAFSA info, SSN and all, on a scam .com site despite how many times we were told "fafsa.gov" or whatever.)

But let's pretend that's a solvable problem, just for the same of argument. Let's assume it's a federal government provided site which you can provide with your private key on demand to do signing on your behalf and it's relatively secure actually keeping the key in your browser. And there's a mobile app option which can store the key locally with better security and do signing in memory which can actually be wiped after. Fine. Now convince the public that this site/app do not constitute a Federal database of identities. You and I know it wouldn't, as described, but I would not blame anyone who objected on those grounds one bit, because without the necessary knowledge it absolutely would seem like a Federal ID, and folks are right to be wary of a single source of identity information. After all, all that does is take the SSN problem and add to it civil liberties problems. The distinction between SSNs and a [somewhat] decentralized PKI scheme with a centralized signing app for security/anti-phishing reasons is a distinction essentially impossible to convey to any but the most tech-savvy.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by Buttons840 on Friday August 20, 2021 @10:54PM (#28253704)
How much would it cost to give everyone a device from which the private key could not be removed?

Worried about "mark of the beast" based objections? Make it optional. Those who wish can retire their SSN and receive their public / private keys and then the government publishes their SSN as a trashed SSN. Everyone who still wants just a SSN can take their chances.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by landemva on Friday August 20, 2021 @11:41PM (#28253987)
SSN already is optional. Nobody forced your parents to register you, but your parents wanted to claim you on the IRS tax form each year so they sold you out.

USA passport for my children didn't require SSN. And a passport complies with TSA id checks.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by PoignardAzur on Friday August 20, 2021 @05:39PM (#28251715)
On the long run, they'll hopefully solve these problems with SSO.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by zucked on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:05PM (#28248471)
It's infuriating, because with the proper messaging, this is a bipartisan issue. Righ, left and everyone between have had identities stolen. Stolen identities cost businesses money - I'd wager millions, maybe billions collectively every year. There's literally no reason why a more secure form of identify verification needs to be a partisan issue.

Which is exactly why it will be :(

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by hiccuphippo on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:01PM (#28248405)
Third world country here. Even we have ID cards and no identity theft issues. I don't get why the US doesn't get on with the times. Same for the metric system.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by xur17 on Friday August 20, 2021 @02:54PM (#28249938)
It seems like someone could do us all a public service by combining a few of these lists and making a very public and hard to take down website with them all listed. Create a forcing function for a replacement.

Not recommending anyone do this as it's obviously illegal, but..

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by meowster on Friday August 20, 2021 @04:32PM (#28251063)
What laws make it illegal for a regular person to republish a list of SSNs and corresponding names?
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by squeaky-clean on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:38PM (#28250468)
I still doubt much would come of it until someone began to target lawmakers with it.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by smorgusofborg on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:49PM (#28250611)
I'm not sure if it is illegal since the US expends a lot of energy keeping privacy rights out of its civil rights.. But it would be a chore to process gdpr requests from dual citizens, etc.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by 55873445216111 on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:51PM (#28248246)
Yes! SSNs are already not private given the number of hacks that have occured. Today, the real damage comes from the fact that people/businesses still believe they are private. Publish a list of all SSNs would eliminate the misperception once and for all and force people to verify identity in a better way. SSNs should only ever be used for your employer knows how to report who paid what taxes to the IRS. If someone else wants to use my SSN to claim that they paid my taxes, fine with me!
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by barbazoo on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:59PM (#28248368)
Not sure if it's a problem of perception or just the lack of legal responsibility. As long as the legal and financial risk isn't owned by the party using the SSN for a purpose they shouldn't (identification), nothing will change.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by rory on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:16PM (#28248621)
100%. The very concept of "identity theft" feels like corporate newspeak to shift the onus of remediation from the party that actually got defrauded (the company) to someone uninvolved in the transaction.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by ryanlol on Friday August 20, 2021 @08:58PM (#28253102)
How is the financial risk not owned by the party using the SSN for identification?

Guess who ends up footing the bill when a bank gives a loan to someone pretending to be you? Hint: It’s not you, and it’s not the fraudster either.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by nybble41 on Friday August 20, 2021 @02:42PM (#28249792)
> SSNs should only ever be used for your employer knows how to report who paid what taxes to the IRS. If someone else wants to use my SSN to claim that they paid my taxes, fine with me!

That could go the other way, with someone else filing their income under your SSN without any corresponding withholding. This, too, needs better authentication than a mere SSN can provide.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by zug_zug on Friday August 20, 2021 @02:15PM (#28249478)
Proposed alternative - you get your own private-key as an identifier. Nobody ever can ask for the private key, they can only ask for a signed message that proves identity. Thus a lot of categories of fraud are no longer possible because there is no shared reusable number in the event of a leak.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by discardable_dan on Friday August 20, 2021 @02:27PM (#28249636)
In Denmark, you are issued a one-time pad. You get a new one with some frequency. If you lose it, you are issued a new one.

In that case, third parties could use a government website to get a row/col and ask you to verify, and the website could say yes/no. Yes, there is a risk of your one-time pad being stolen, but it is no greater than the current risk that any US citizen's tax documents or SS card can be stolen.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by xxpor on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:58PM (#28250692)
How do they bootstrap the verification when you say you lost your key?
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by discardable_dan on Friday August 20, 2021 @05:01PM (#28251370)
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by mjevans on Friday August 20, 2021 @05:14PM (#28251480)
That's an annoying denial of service attack; and you would typically do this by making the burn require very little authentication and the recovery a visit to a local government office, such as the police or a court.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by sillysaurusx on Friday August 20, 2021 @02:24PM (#28249591)
What do you do when you lose your private key?

Who issues the private key? "get" implies it comes from somewhere, i.e. a CA system.

If the government is the CA system, and your private key is your identity, how do you establish your identity in the event that you lost your key?

The nice thing about SSNs being immutable is that none of these are concerns. (It's also the bad thing about SSNs being immutable.)

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by azinman2 on Friday August 20, 2021 @02:34PM (#28249710)
That and I can memorize my SSN.

We do have one thing in the US that’s physical proof, and that’s your birth certificate. But I’m sure people lose them and they can be pretty easily fabricated.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by codegeek on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:49PM (#28249123)
I would say that most Identify Theft issues will be resolved if you are forced to do a 5 min video verification call. I can show my ID (DL, Real ID etc) just like I can do in person. It may add a little bit of hassle but I would trade that for peace of mind that some random person cannot steal my identity that easy just because they know my DOB, SSN etc and can fill out an online form etc. The video call can easily weed out the scammers especially because a lot of ID thefts happen where a young person is stealing an older person's identity or vice versa or it is a different Gender etc.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by hanniabu on Friday August 20, 2021 @02:08PM (#28249389)
Should have it where your social security is a public key and government has your private key. You're given a device that has your private key to confirm things but you don't know it directly. Public key is used in replace of discussi security number. If your public key gets compromised the government blacklists it and gives you a new one.

This is just a knee-jerk thought and I'm sure it can be improved, but I believe asymmetric keys are the solution.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by t0mbstone on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:05PM (#28250077)
You have it totally backwards. Public keys are called public keys because they are intended to be public. You should be able to freely advertise a public key on a billboard.

On the other hand, you can't really expect the average citizen to properly curate a private key, and a private key also doesn't work for verification purposes.

I think the problem would be easily solved without encryption or keys by using the social security number in combination with a user-selected PIN number.

Any time you apply for credit somewhere, you should have to provide the social and a PIN. There should also be an easy way to generate single-use PIN numbers that can be used when applying for credit.

They already have a lot of the infrastructure for doing this. You can already put a credit freeze on your social security number and protect the credit freeze with a PIN, for example.

Whenever I am applying for credit, I simply "thaw" out my social security number for a couple of days. This works pretty well, but it's a hassle because you have to do it for all three agencies. It also suffers from the problem that my credit could get compromised if I left it thawed out too long.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by mikestew on Friday August 20, 2021 @02:14PM (#28249465)
If your public key gets compromised...

Do you mean private key? Or am I about to have a TIL moment? Because your public key is, well, public so I wonder what a compromise of that would look like.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by discardable_dan on Friday August 20, 2021 @02:30PM (#28249666)
Nah, one-time pad with government verification for third parties. Keep it rolling.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by ryanlol on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:14PM (#28250176)
> After that date all liability for fraud perpetrated using an SSN as a shared "secret" will be assigned to the party who accepted the SSN as "authentication".

lol. How do you think it works right now?

The party who accepted the SSN (or their insurance) is liable for footing the bill for the fraud, except in the ridiculously unlikely scenario where they’d manage to collect money from the fraudster.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by tshaddox on Friday August 20, 2021 @06:26PM (#28252094)
> After that date all liability for fraud perpetrated using an SSN as a shared "secret" will be assigned to the party who accepted the SSN as "authentication". That would solve the problem.

Except that the problem isn't which party is legally liable. The problem is that the legal system is almost entirely inaccessible to the vast majority of people.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by gumby on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:53PM (#28249180)
In Sweden the personnumber is public info and there is no value to keeping it secret. Everything works fine there.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by nashashmi on Friday August 20, 2021 @03:30PM (#28250369)
Interesting point of view. Maybe ssn should be used for authentication purposes.

Give SSN. Get email txt or notification to verify. SSN service replies back with a real Id number. Real id number is used for banking.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by babyshake on Friday August 20, 2021 @07:46PM (#28252666)
It's really simple to those of us who do any work at all with authentication. If you share it with anyone, it's not a secret.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by rafale on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:46PM (#28248179)
What are we gonna use instead? Hardware keys, like Ledger but for ID?
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by gruez on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:02PM (#28248420)
That's basically what some countries have: IDs with a smartcard built in which functions like a HSM
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by dredmorbius on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:32PM (#28248865)
I'm strongly partial to a wearable token. The NFC Ring is one highly attractive option.

- It's inobtrusive enough to wear all, or very nearly all of the time. Contrast cards or similar carried-but-not-worn tokens.

- It can be readily use to tap a sensor for identification purposes. Contrast cards or similar tokens (e.g., USB keys), which are far less immediate.

- It is replaceable. That is, if it's compromised, stolen, or lost, it can be replaced. If it becomes unadvisable to possess, it's readily discarded and reasonably easily destroyed. This contrasts with biometrics or permanently embedded sensors.

- Its absence is reasonably immediately determinable. Again, contrast carried-but-not-worn tokens.

- The existing prevalence of ring-wearing makes use of an NFC ring less obvious or evident (mostly a concern in early-adoption periods), or the opting-out of wearing one (which ring is the NFC ring?), without directly querying each individual, which ... might not work regardless (depending on implementations).

- There are relatively few people who would be entirely unable to use such a device. Ready alternatives for most such cases exist: wrist bands

- Unintentional validation (e.g., surveillance) is relatively easily avoided, if devices require immediate contact with a sensor/receiver. That is, a surveillance entity couldn't mass scan a crowd or region quickly, but would have to individually query rings in close proximity. (This might be achieved through high-volume transit points already, but this already raises the ante.)

- It's possible with a query/response system that multiple identities with the same root, but not immediately correlated, could be supported. (Deanonymisation or identity linking remains a significant problem, however.) Ideally, such a system could be limited to only satisfying minimum qualifying criteria (e.g., "I've paid a fare for this trip"), rather than transmitting either a full personal dossier or an absolute identity.

Key (so to speak) challenges are in agreeing on a single standard, ensuring crytpgraphic robustness, and protecting privacy, surveillance, and other concerns, as well as distributing the detector infrastructure for desired uses.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by EvanAnderson on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:43PM (#28249038)
This all sounds very reasonable, albeit I'm partial to chip-and-PIN for preventing unintentional validation and to render the token useless if lost or stolen. The ring form factor doesn't lend itself to PIN entry, but otherwise it sounds reasonable compelling. (Granted I can't make myself wear a ring without taking it off, fidgeting with it, and ultimately losing it. I've tried, failed, and lost three as a result.)
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by dredmorbius on Friday August 20, 2021 @02:28PM (#28249646)
An NFC ring can still require secondary authentication (e.g., pin) in some contexts. That would be application-dependent.

There are cases (e.g., mass-transit turnstiles) where this isn't desirable --- the intent is to maximise throughput. (The quesiton of whether or not validating or fares are a net benefit is also open.)

For a more secure facility, or payment system, tag + pin (and potentially other identifiers) would be preferred.

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by MeinBlutIstBlau on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:49PM (#28248225)
I'm at the point where I just want a tattoo or chip embedded in me. Like I'm integrated in the system at this point. I can't exactly go off grid.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by 55873445216111 on Friday August 20, 2021 @12:51PM (#28248254)
"How come no tattoo?!"
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by Forbo on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:30PM (#28248838)
For those wondering, this is a reference to Idiocracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdPmNM0IF7Y

I believe the direct quote is "Why come you got no tattoo?"

Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by 55873445216111 on Friday August 20, 2021 @06:24PM (#28252086)
I am Not Sure.
Re:Claimed AT&T hack of 70M customer records including SSN, ... by SevenSigs on Friday August 20, 2021 @01:08PM (#28248511)
Maybe we need to tell each individual company that our SSN is public when they ask for it and why they rely on it to identify me... another form of ID that they like to use when you apply for credit is previous addresses/cars/etc... as if that isn't public.