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Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by whoknowswhat11 on Saturday July 24, 2021 @01:14AM (#27938597)
Or tax water at 0.25 cents per gallon.

Someone buying 8 oz at the airport won’t notice.

Water is scarce because in a lot of cases water is free

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by samatman on Saturday July 24, 2021 @01:21AM (#27938638)
Eight bucks just for the water to draw a bath? No thanks.

Residential and city use is a) a drop in the proverbial bucket (20% of California water use) and b) comes from a completely different system. For the most part it's drawn from snowmelt in the Sierras, and even when drought gets pretty bad it's been sustainable. Fingers crossed it will stay that way.

Really it's farmers who should pay for water, and hard limits on aquifer withdrawal. They'll hate it but there's not enough to go around and I don't see an alternative.

Also worth pointing out that California is an enormous place and what applies to the Central and Imperial Valleys doesn't apply to, say, the San Joaquin Delta. There's no good reason to stop growing rice in the latter, because the acre-feet of water which go into doing so are just going to flow directly into the Bay otherwise.

Maybe we could pay for more of it to be diverted into the Central Valley if there was some sort of profit in it. Water auctions, say.

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by whoknowswhat11 on Saturday July 24, 2021 @01:40AM (#27938741)
If you use 3,200 per bath you should be in jail. That is seriously a ridiculous waste of water per bath.

That’s years worth of baths for most people - average cost per bath at 0.25 cents per gallon would be 7 cents.

Realize farmers use water measured in ACRE feet

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by nightfly on Saturday July 24, 2021 @04:33AM (#27939274)
They misread 0.25 cents as $0.25 or 25¢
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Saturday July 24, 2021 @07:49AM (#27940104)
An unfortunate reality is that a lot of signage also makes this mistake and advertises things like "0.25 cents per gallon" with the intent to mean 25¢/gallon. The poster's confusion is understandable.
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by bbarnett on Saturday July 24, 2021 @08:15AM (#27940245)
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by whoknowswhat11 on Saturday July 24, 2021 @10:26AM (#27941191)
Ahh - that helps
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by inetknght on Saturday July 24, 2021 @01:26AM (#27938668)
> Eight bucks just for the water to draw a bath? No thanks.

That's the cost of living in a desert.

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by whoknowswhat11 on Saturday July 24, 2021 @01:40AM (#27938747)
It’s a made up number - no one normal uses this much water in a bath
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by admax88q on Saturday July 24, 2021 @01:56AM (#27938817)
They pretty clearly confused 0.25 cents with $0.25
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by samatman on Saturday July 24, 2021 @02:01AM (#27938837)
Yep that's what happened.

In my defense, it's common "greengrocerese" to list a price that way. If limes are shown as "0.10¢ ea." on a handwritten card, you're not getting ten for a penny.

I still think taxing residential water is irrelevant, and that the difference between buying water at auction from the state and paying a tax for that water to the state, is that auction is better because price discovery tends to be.

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by whoknowswhat11 on Sunday July 25, 2021 @12:21PM (#27950381)
The idea here is to set what appears to be a ridiculously low tax that applies to everyone. No carvouts so reduces arguments about fairness.

This highlight the large water uses (usually free in the millions of gallons).

If you aren't willing to say a gallon of water is worth a quarter of a penny - then we can usually stop talking about any supposed shortages. Retail / urban water use (ie, a bottle of water at the store, often 1/8th of a gallon - this tax is irrelevant obviously) already is wildly higher in cost than the "free" groundwater and river water folks are using.

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by dghughes on Saturday July 24, 2021 @09:47AM (#27940899)
I always find it amazing how bottled water is seen as terrible yet bottles of pop/soda is never spoken about.

Pop is 90% to 99% water and far worse for people than just water even the diet types.

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by spiderice on Saturday July 24, 2021 @12:22PM (#27942205)
I think the answer is that there is no other reasonable way to deliver pop/soda besides bottles. Whereas we have infrastructure for water delivery.

I'm a big bottled water drinker, but if I had to make an argument for why bottled water makes less sense than pop/soda, that would be it.

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by bcrosby95 on Saturday July 24, 2021 @01:24AM (#27938651)
Even in the most water efficient cities people use 40 gallons per day. You're talking $10 per person per day just for water. A family of four would spend at least $1,200 per month on water. Even desalination is way cheaper than 25 cents per gallon.
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by ridgeguy on Saturday July 24, 2021 @01:28AM (#27938686)
I think OP wrote .25¢/gallon, not 25¢/gallon.
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by mattashii on Saturday July 24, 2021 @05:52AM (#27939539)
40 gallons per day, aka roughly 180L. How would I even use that much water? My estimate for own use gets to about 120L, with fairly pessimistically high values:

20L /toilet flush, x 3

30L /shower,

5L /dishes,

20L /laundry x ~ 0.2

1L for drinking

What in the world would I need to drain another 40L / 8 gallons into?

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by watersb on Saturday July 24, 2021 @03:19PM (#27943695)
The dirt-cheap clothes washing machine in our apartment was much appreciated, but easily ran 30+ gallons per load of laundry.

I replaced it with a washer that uses less than a third of that. The kids would generate a 5 loads of laundry per week, and my suggestions that we use less were... not well received.

The other fixtures here are very nicely maintained, a great landlord, but the plumbing is 40 years old. While it's no longer possible to purchase a toliet that uses four gallons per flush, they are still everywhere.

Legislation? Tighter ordinances? Good luck getting those passed, or enforced. And however necessary, the replacement of antiquated plumbing appliances amount to extremely regressive taxation: those with the least money would bear most of the financial cost.

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by koolba on Saturday July 24, 2021 @07:15AM (#27939897)
Own a property with a lawn or garden.
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by FractalParadigm on Saturday July 24, 2021 @08:19AM (#27940268)
Sounds like the easiest solution to that is to do-away with non-native plants (i.e. Kentucky bluegrass, which could be considered an invasive species in North America) and do something more along the lines of what the OP did in this Reddit post*[0], a wildflower alternative of all-native plants (and although it's only a small section this year, OP claims their parents have expressed interest in expanding it). It requires basically zero maintenance, and is incredibly beneficial to the local environment.

[0]: https://redd.it/oph88p

*It's pointed out a few times that only a few of the plants are local native species, many aren't North American at all.

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by spiderice on Saturday July 24, 2021 @12:27PM (#27942245)
"Solutions" like these make me laugh. How is renovating the yard of essentially every urban/suburban home in North America even a remotely easy solution? This actually sounds like basically the hardest solution because the only way to make it happen is by passing laws that absolutely nobody is willing to pass.
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by b3morales on Saturday July 24, 2021 @01:21PM (#27942739)
A lot of public policy work is figuring out how to achieve a certain goal without directly mandating a particular action.

For example, what if water wasn't billed at a flat rate? Each building could have an allotment based on size and expected occupancy. One rate within that amount, and a higher rate for each unit over it. Calculate the level such that essential water usage is affordable and watering a large lawn becomes a luxury.

I doubt that exact plan is workable without further elaboration; the law of unintended consequences is powerful. But the point is that "we should have more sustainable landscaping" doesn't necessarily equate directly to "ban all grass".

Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by boomlinde on Saturday July 24, 2021 @08:29AM (#27940333)
If you pour eight gallons of water on your lawn daily you deserve to pay out of your nose for it.
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by socialist_coder on Saturday July 24, 2021 @02:49PM (#27943478)
Yeah... in any conversation about how to preserve and protect our water, lawns will be the 1st thing to go. And good riddance too! They are utterly useless.
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by woofyman on Saturday July 24, 2021 @10:46AM (#27941383)
I live in an apartment and use 1750 gallons a month.
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by antihero on Saturday July 24, 2021 @07:01AM (#27939836)
$0.10 per day. Which is fine.
Re:Without Enough Water to Go Around, Farmers in California ... by whoknowswhat11 on Saturday July 24, 2021 @01:43AM (#27938758)
Water would cost $12 per month which is fair and lower than almost all existing urban water costs . A corner store sells water for $$ per gallon. The tax on a bottle would be small fraction of a penny