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Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by euske on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @08:41PM (#27695166)
I think that almost every culture has this kind of food that is supposed to be super good to those who acquired taste but looks totally gross to outsiders. Japan has this half-rotten sushi and fermented soybeans, and then there's maggot cheese and notorious fermented herrings, etc.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by tastyfreeze on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:56PM (#27696136)
I have always thought of these foods as "kept my ancestors from starving" foods. Things that were discovered by accident when people were starving and became a way have stored food to keep from starving in the future.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by SideburnsOfDoom on Thursday July 01, 2021 @07:31AM (#27698098)
> became a way have stored food to keep from starving in the future.

And mostly because no-one will eat them by choice, in seasons when they're not starving.

Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by babesh on Thursday July 01, 2021 @03:07AM (#27696982)
Salted fish in the same general approach as funazushi is still practiced in some Chinese cultures. I wonder if Chinese would find funazushi tasty.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by dcolkitt on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:29PM (#27695435)
From conversations I've had with East Asians, I think many think of cheese in general as a pretty gross food.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by tootie on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:17PM (#27695936)
Pizza is pretty popular in East Asia though.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by mango7283 on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:43PM (#27696064)
And there's such a thing as hong Kong style cheese baked rice.

I mean it's 2021. When I was growing up Kraft singles were common. Today I can go to a supermarket and pick up a block of Gouda.

Also, I think there's degrees of lactose intolerance? I don't really take full cream milk as is anymore because of that but cream and cheese and lattes are fine...

Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by grenoire on Thursday July 01, 2021 @01:32AM (#27696531)
Definitely degrees to it, and also for many people it does fluctuate over time depending on how much you help your guts keep feeding on lactose to keep the workers alive.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by eloisius on Thursday July 01, 2021 @05:43AM (#27697632)
Funny, I was just talking about dairy in Asia in the thread about alcohol flush. At least in Taiwan, cheese is super popular. Wine and cheese charcuterie, cheese on dan bing, cheese tea even (albeit creme cheese). It's probably a generational thing though. Many young people here study abroad and are very international in their tastes.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by caymanjim on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:23PM (#27695706)
East Asians are the most lactose-intolerant humans. I assume that's a factor.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by Sophistifunk on Thursday July 01, 2021 @03:26AM (#27697069)
Africans are, as far I know. And it's the mouth-feel of cheese the Chinese hate.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by distantaidenn on Thursday July 01, 2021 @12:24AM (#27696249)
Interesting. In my experience, living in Japan and Korea, cheese is everywhere -- sometimes in dishes you wouldn't even expect. I wonder if age is a factor in your observations.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by Clewza313 on Thursday July 01, 2021 @04:15AM (#27697257)
"Cheese" in Japan tends to be mild, inoffensive "Kraft Singles" type processed cheese (in taste/texture, that is, actual form factors vary). Stronger tasting cheeses of any kind (sharp hard cheeses, white or blue cheese, etc) remain quite niche.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by asutekku on Thursday July 01, 2021 @05:26AM (#27697550)
Japanese ”cheese” is not really cheese. You easily can’t find a cheese that would not be a single slice packaged in a plastic. The ”actual cheese” like sold in europe is harder and comes in actual blocks.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by boomboomsubban on Thursday July 01, 2021 @02:06AM (#27696693)
Both those countries also have sixty years of exposure to cheese through the US military presence, the change may be fairly recent and may be somewhat limited to areas foreigners are likely to go.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by distantaidenn on Thursday July 01, 2021 @05:32PM (#27705142)
I've lived in Japan for over a decade and definitely not in the foreigner bubble. Cheese is just ubiquitous...
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by boomboomsubban on Thursday July 01, 2021 @10:10PM (#27707191)
Is it widely used in the countryside, like throughout Hokkaido?
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by distantaidenn on Thursday July 01, 2021 @11:33PM (#27707577)
I haven't been to the place, but I'm gonna assume cheese is a big thing there as well, considering 60% of all dairy products in the country are produced there.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by pezezin on Saturday July 03, 2021 @08:07AM (#27721057)
I do have been there (I live in Aomori, so quite close), and it's exactly as you describe.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by fomine3 on Thursday July 01, 2021 @02:27AM (#27696794)
Cheeses (mostly processed cheese) are pretty common food (at least than funazushi) in Japan everywhere at least for 20 years. It seems that lactose in cheese isn't much high.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by fnordsensei on Thursday July 01, 2021 @02:36AM (#27696849)
It depends on your level of lactose intolerance. I have a family member who is lactose intolerant, but can eat aged, hard cheeses.

An aged, hard cheese will have much lower levels of lactose than a fresh, soft cheese, to the point where it virtually disappears.

Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by edwcross on Thursday July 01, 2021 @03:13AM (#27697017)
That can be checked by looking at "sugars" in the Nutrition Facts table: lactose is a sugar, and most cheeses do not have added sugar (well, at least "ordinary" ones). If the "sugars" row is at zero or "traces", that means all the lactose has been digested by the bacteria.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by Bayart on Thursday July 01, 2021 @06:43AM (#27697894)
Making milk relevant for all ages is one of the main reasons for cheese existing in the first place.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by Sophistifunk on Thursday July 01, 2021 @03:26AM (#27697066)
Honestly it's mostly just the Chinese (except those living nearer to Russia) who hate cheese.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by gruez on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:35PM (#27695462)
Why? Is it the sharp taste, how its made, or something else?
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by wahern on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:15PM (#27695919)
Like anything it probably varies, especially by local culture. Source, method of production, smell, etc, as well as the particular product--there's significant variety to cheeses, not to mention dairy products generally. But one very general aspect described to me is the lingering milky mouth feel and aftertaste. That person didn't much like butter, either. I've enjoyed several East Asian analogs to cheese, like stinky tofu and natto; none are similar in that regard as they go down rather clean.

And don't discount the mental factor. I've eaten balut (the Vietnamese variety that is older and more developed), dog, live shrimp, fish gut soup, etc. Other than balut, which has a livery flavor (not to my personal taste, though it's more pronounced with duck than with chicken), the flavor and texture were never particularly foreign or distasteful, per se; the aversion was mostly mental and simply an artifact of cultural familiarity. The dog stew I ate was delicious, but near the bottom of the bowl, my appetite sated, disgust reared its head and I had trouble keeping it down. Later that day I learned my partner had the exact same experience. Fermenting and consuming the lactation secretions of herd animals is, on its face, kind of gross if it's not what you grew up with.

Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by kadoban on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:15PM (#27695918)
It's biological waste grown on cow extract. Pretty sure it's not that different from other gross-to-those-not-familiar-with-it foods, it's just that we're familiar with it.

An Asian friend once told me that when she came to America as a child and someone gave her cheese, she thought they were trying to poison her. I get the sense that that's not too far off from the common sentiment for those uninitiated.

Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by bitcurious on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:15PM (#27695917)
East Asians have a higher rate of lactose intolerance.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by koyote on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:53PM (#27695555)
I'd assume the mould is a deterrent.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by jefurii on Thursday July 01, 2021 @12:18PM (#27700772)
Shoyu (soy sauce), sake, and miso are all made with mold (aspergillus oryzae) and are major components of Japanese cuisine, so no.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by Tor3 on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @05:28AM (#27745965)
Shoyu and miso etc. are fermented, and the end result is all the consumer sees - the mould isn't there. My Japanese wife love all fermented Japanese food, but has an extreme aversion for mould of any kind, even in minuscule amounts. Her nose is hyper sensitive about the stuff. So no blue cheese here.. (she likes a lot of other types of cheese. She's not lactose intolerant, but in any case hard cheeses tend to be very low in lactose).
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by 2muchcoffeeman on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @11:52PM (#27696105)
SE Asia uses mould too. Eg tempeh.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by dllthomas on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:21PM (#27695396)
In my experience the Poles seem to think of their pickled herring this way, but it's just genuinely tasty all of the three ways I've had it.
Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by Fnoord on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @10:12PM (#27695648)
When we Dutch buy Hollanse Nieuwe (herring of this year) we get asked if we want 'ui en zuur erbij?' ('onion and sour with it?'). The sour are pickles. I wouldn't want my herring without either.

Maybe lutefisk counts, but I don't think so. Fermentation has to be done correct, else it is dangerous. That's where the gross feeling stems from; it has/had a purpose.

Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by dagw on Thursday July 01, 2021 @04:27AM (#27697308)
Maybe lutefisk counts

Lutefisk isn't fermented, and has a mild smell and tastes of unseasoned boiled white fish with a slightly 'off' aftertaste. While most people don't particularly like it, it is hardly off putting unless you find boiled fish in general off putting.

Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by bradleyjg on Wednesday June 30, 2021 @09:54PM (#27695557)
I don’t know about the Polish version but I assume it’s similar to the kind you get with onions and a sour cream based sauce in appetizing stores in NYC.

If so, I wouldn’t say it’s an acquired taste. It’s a bit fishy but even as a child I liked it.

Re:Funazushi: The fermented predecessor of modern sushi by dllthomas on Thursday July 01, 2021 @10:54PM (#27707411)
> I assume it’s similar to the kind you get with onions and a sour cream based sauce in appetizing stores in NYC.

Quite possibly. It's not the same as various jarred herring in supermarkets (which is usually... okay.); my mother in law makes hers with oil, onions, cloves, and bay leaf and it's very much the same as what I had in Warsaw. There is another approach (which I haven't go the recipe for) that is sour and a little sweet and has sour cream and green onions (and sometimes raisins, in the northwest). Those are good and a little exciting because I have them less often, but I like the oil and onions and cloves kind better.

> If so, I wouldn’t say it’s an acquired taste. It’s a bit fishy but even as a child I liked it.

Yeah, I agree, which is why I'm a little amused at how much surprise and enjoyment "lubie śledzie" seems to prompt.