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Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by philipswood on Thursday June 17, 2021 @06:11AM (#27538008)
Is it just me?

I would rather just pay for stuff and be done with it rather than have my attention and sensorium sold to the highest bidder.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by nindalf on Thursday June 17, 2021 @09:19AM (#27539266)
It’s not just you, but you are a tiny minority. You’ve expressed a sentiment that’s very popular on HN, but not among the general population. Take YouTube - a popular ad supported service with a premium tier. How many people are willing to pay to remove ads? Less than 1%. Even on HN I don’t think that number would be more than 10%.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by serf on Thursday June 17, 2021 @09:36AM (#27539417)
>Take YouTube - a popular ad supported service with a premium tier. How many people are willing to pay to remove ads? Less than 1%.

I think that's an inaccurate assessment of 'people who don't want to see ads', given that statistics put internet wide usage of ad-blockers at around 42%.[0].

Maybe it's just that no one wants to pay their captors for golden ear-muffs and blinders when they themselves are the ones responsible for the poor user experience.

[0]: https://backlinko.com/ad-blockers-users

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by selfhoster11 on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:17AM (#27539816)
> Maybe it's just that no one wants to pay their captors for golden ear-muffs and blinders when they themselves are the ones responsible for the poor user experience.

I vehemently refuse to pay for YouTube Premium for that exact reason. I get ads that amount to something like "You know how we just stuff ads down your eyeballs constantly? You know how it's really annoying? For just X.99 a month, we'll no longer do that!"

These enrage me to the core. Now that I have NewPipe and other methods of watching YouTube without ads and artificially freezing the stream when I switch away from the app, the official app is useless.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by recursive on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:41AM (#27540083)
I don't understand this. Would it be better if YouTube "Free" didn't even exist? No one's forcing anyone to use youtube. How is this different from any subscription service that has a hobbled "lite" version?
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by freeone3000 on Thursday June 17, 2021 @11:23AM (#27540598)
YouTube doesn't provide the content, the people I watch do. I send them money. A youtube subscription to them, of which youtube takes a cut, doesn't disable ads -- only a second service, paid to youtube itself, does. Apparently $15/mo gets rid of ads, but $5.99 a month (less 20%, thanks youtube) actually creates the content I care about watching. Youtube has inserted themselves in the middle, and are extracting rent from both sides.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by floatboth on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:33PM (#27546032)
> youtube subscription to them, of which youtube takes a cut, doesn't disable ads

This is a really stupid oversight.. Twitch did subscriptions first and there they do disable ads on the channel you subscribe to (if it has them).

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by freeone3000 on Friday June 18, 2021 @01:29AM (#27547646)
This isn't an oversight. YouTube allowed this from 2018-2020, but no longer allows creators to disable ads on their channel.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by selfhoster11 on Thursday June 17, 2021 @05:58PM (#27544893)
Precisely. I want to compensate content creators for their content, and YouTube for their bandwidth, discovery and video storage with some markup on top. YouTube wants too much for what they do.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by selfhoster11 on Thursday June 17, 2021 @05:56PM (#27544881)
It's the sheer aggression in their advertising that they introduced recently. There are memes that you have 2 ads every video, and that is closer to reality than parody these days.

My touchstone for excessive advertising is a Polish TV station called Polsat, which often had very good programming but also lots and lots of ads. We often joked that Polsat programming was "all ads, sometimes broken up by a few minutes of actual TV". It wasn't quite that bad, but it was true that you would get just under ~10 minutes of adverts per every 15-25 minutes of programming.

YouTube exceeds that ratio, these days. And when that happens, I'm almost positive it's time to start packing your toys and looking for a different source of entertainment.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by recursive on Friday June 18, 2021 @12:03AM (#27547237)
I wouldn't know. I've been a premium subscriber for longer than that.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by matheusmoreira on Thursday June 17, 2021 @11:29AM (#27540662)
> No one's forcing anyone to use youtube.

No one's forcing YouTube to send me the videos either. If it gives me ads, they will be deleted before they even make it to my screen. If they don't like that, they are free to return 402 Payment Required instead of giving me stuff for free.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by phkahler on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:54AM (#27540216)
>> I think that's an inaccurate assessment of 'people who don't want to see ads'

They made a statement about people who are willing to PAY not to see ads. People don't want to pay for anything. Give me free content! And then when they don't like the ads - give me a free ad-blocker!

For me, I'm happy to pay a reasonable price for most things as long as I'm convinced I'll like it. But that's a problem with most content - uncertainty.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by thathndude on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:49AM (#27540158)
Plenty of people will pay nothing to block ads (I.e. use a free ad blocker). But when it's time to pay, different story!
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by thatguy0900 on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:38PM (#27546073)
Probably a very large overlap between people who would pay and people using adblockers
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by matheusmoreira on Thursday June 17, 2021 @11:23AM (#27540606)
> It’s not just you, but you are a tiny minority.

No, everyone agrees that ads are annoying. I install uBlock Origin on every single browser I come across. Every single time, people take notice almost immediately. They always tell me the internet just feels so much nicer. Many times they can't explain why, they just know.

Ads are a blight on the modern web. Everyone prefers the low-noise version.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by nickik on Friday June 18, 2021 @07:56AM (#27549437)
They can't explain that they are not seening popups every 5s is better?
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by matheusmoreira on Friday June 18, 2021 @11:07AM (#27551143)
Not in my experience. People usually just ignore annoying stuff. They don't even read anything, it barely registers on their minds. I've seen people browsing a website get extremely confused when some newsletter bullshit pops up in front of the content. They immediately start searching for a close button to get rid of it. They assume annoyances like that are an inevitable part of life on the internet.

With uBlock Origin we can show them a better world.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by thrwaeasddsaf on Thursday June 17, 2021 @11:21AM (#27540577)
You're oversimplifying, because the question isn't about paying to remove ads vs not paying and seeing ads, but about paying and getting the product or not paying and not getting the product.

People's behavior depends on the circumstances they are given, and if "free (with ads)" is one choice, then indeed a lot of people will choose it over paying. However, if option is not given, it doesn't mean everyone who would've picked free are not going to pay at all.

There are some highly popular freemium/ad supported games but also lots of very popular games that you simply must pay for. Applying the 1% number from products where the choice is ad-free-or-paid to must-pay-for games and assuming they'd get 99x more users if given for free with ads is just completely wrong.

In general, people seem quite willing to pay for games (this may be less true in mobile, that's a rather different market). The challenge isn't that people don't want to pay, it's that the market is extremely saturated and it's hard to stand out from the crowd & produce a game that everyone wants to play over all the other choices.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by Folcon on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:39AM (#27540053)
My biggest bugbear with youtube premium is that there's very little way to control your youtube recommendations other than being in incognito / a new browser session.

I constantly find that youtube's algorithm just recommends me less interesting stuff over time. If I could have some decent controls on it, paying for an ad free experience would be worthwhile.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by perryizgr8 on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:35AM (#27540008)
> How many people are willing to pay to remove ads?

For me, I'd rather not watch Youtube at all if I have to pay to use it. I have found that it is an incredible time-waster and really adds very little value to my life. If I had the self control I would stop using it on my own.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by wincy on Thursday June 17, 2021 @09:58AM (#27539618)
I’m getting close to paying, YouTube has figured out some clever way to keep AdGuard on iOS from properly blocking ads and it’s super annoying. But I mean when it’s trivial for a technical user to download a few adblockers why pay, right?
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by tomjen3 on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:34AM (#27540004)
That is one of the reasons I love using a real computer. I can install firefox with ublock origin and sponsorblock. Bomm. No more ads, no more tracking and no more in-video ads.

I would only get the first by paying, and I have found videos without ads so more more relaxing.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by wincy on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:48AM (#27540149)
You also get the “bonus” of full quality videos on mobile. The safari version of YouTube is limited to 720p and music videos 360p.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by floatboth on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:45PM (#27546111)
Well, the web version in Firefox on Android works with 2160p.

Apple is still not supporting any free codecs on the web. Apparently they actually do have a hardware VP9 decoder in the newest chips but it's only exposed to the YouTube app?? https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-m1-vp9-av1-decodi...

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by hobs on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:01AM (#27539652)
I paid, then they killed google music for no damn reason, so I stopped paying.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by Agentlien on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:37AM (#27538915)
My first response when seeing this article was that I'm, yet again, so happy I did not get an Oculus.

I'm very happy with my Vive Cosmos and it works without a Facebook account and hasn't shown me any ads so far.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by croon on Thursday June 17, 2021 @09:22AM (#27539281)
I get what you're saying, but honestly the Quest is in a whole other league, as a product. I had an original Vive, and understand that Cosmos has higher fidelity etc, but the Quest inside-out-tracking is good enough, and can be used with or without a PC, with or without a cable to said PC, the resolution is great, and the compression on the PC interfaces while noticable is, again, good enough.

I sincerely don't miss the lighthouses and cables, and can make a new area in any part of the house, at any time.

I just wish it wasn't owned by Facebook. But there's no competitor, unfortunately.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by Agentlien on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:00AM (#27539649)
I understand where you're coming from and ignoring the Facebook aspect the Quest would perhaps be the product for me, though I can't say I see much of an advantage of it over my current system.

Cosmos also has inside out tracking so no beacons and I honestly don't mind the cables. I never really notice them when I play. I did with the original Vive when I tried it at work, though. As for the PC, I'm an avid gamer and graphics programmer for a AAA studio. My VR is set up in my home office so I have access to a more than adequate PC, anyway.

What I really do mind is a lack of graphical fidelity. Cosmos was the first option I tried which really felt good enough for me (the original Vive always felt cool but not quite there) and I know Quest has very similar resolution. But noticeable compression artifacts sound like something that would really bother me.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by haxiomic on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:13AM (#27538737)
Support the companies that offer this an encourage others to do the same - I worry about a future where VR is monopolized by Facebook and held there by network effect
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by bogwog on Thursday June 17, 2021 @09:03AM (#27539129)
> I worry about a future where VR is monopolized by Facebook and held there by network effect

That's why it's awesome that Valve is so heavily invested in VR to counter that. They might not have more money than Facebook, but they have more than enough to compete with them. Plus, they have the expertise in video games that Facebook doesn't.

It's just a shame that Valve is by all accounts a highly dysfunctional company.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by ascagnel_ on Thursday June 17, 2021 @09:14AM (#27539223)
The problem any competitor will have fighting FB is entry price -- FB is the only player right now that sells a standalone unit and that unit is one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest, headset on the market with a $300 MSRP. Everyone else is far more expensive and requires a PC with a discrete GPU (or game console, in the case of the PlayStation VR), so the total cost of entry ends up being far higher.

What Valve is doing with the Index is really cool, but they're still operating as if they're trying to sell to VR enthusiasts, while Facebook is cornering the market by trying to sell to the general public.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by wlesieutre on Thursday June 17, 2021 @09:32AM (#27539376)
Oculus Quest 2 is the most popular headset on Steam's hardware survey, and that's only counting the ones who have it hooked up to their computer

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by bogwog on Thursday June 17, 2021 @09:59AM (#27539635)
> The problem any competitor will have fighting FB is entry price

I don't think that's true. The main problem right now is that VR is still (even after all these years) an unproven/experimental consumer product.

It's like buying a game console in the 70s-80s compared to buying one today. Back then, video games were still largely experimental and you were more likely to get garbage than gold. Today, designers know what works/doesn't work, and consumers can be confident in their purchases.

VR is not like that yet. A "VR Game" is still a vague and uncertain term, and consumers can't have confidence in it yet. There are some great VR experiences out there, but there are many many more garbage ones.

I think that a company focusing on finding a good fit for VR is going to be better off long-term than one just trying to corner this early market.

Example: If Valve figures out the "secret sauce" for VR games (much like Nintendo did in the early console wars), it's not going to matter how cheap Facebook's headsets are. People (including Oculus owners) will flock to Steam for the superior experiences while Facebook scrambles to make clones. With a failed "platform", Facebook will ultimately lose.

If anything, Facebook's investments to flood the market with cheap headsets (possibly even subsidizing them) could end up helping Valve in the long term, since it just means more potential Steam customers, and it gives Valve the opportunity to experiment with the high-end stuff without worrying about the market completely dying in the meantime.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by Nextgrid on Thursday June 17, 2021 @06:38AM (#27538148)
But this doesn't satisfy the advertising industry's greed.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by tempodox on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:30AM (#27538862)
But then it would be so pointless to require an FB account before you can use it at all. Wouldn't that be a pity.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by matheusmoreira on Thursday June 17, 2021 @11:19AM (#27540537)
It's absolutely not just you. Those people would put ads under our eyelids if they could get away with it. We need to actively fight against this by somehow blocking all these ads with no exceptions. Drive their return on investment as close to zero as possible.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by terlisimo on Thursday June 17, 2021 @09:43AM (#27539465)
Amazon recognizes this :) Kindle with ads: 120 EUR. Kindle without ads: 140 EUR.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by jokoon on Thursday June 17, 2021 @05:48PM (#27544819)
Most consumers are okay with it and tolerate large doses of advertising.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by Cthulhu_ on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:11AM (#27538728)
That's a very anti-capitalist statement of you, do you even want others to get rich? Would you deny them their wealth? I am shook.

/s of course

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by paulcole on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:28AM (#27538849)
Personally, I don’t mind ads. I like buying things and like seeing things I don’t know about that I might want to buy.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by croes on Thursday June 17, 2021 @09:01AM (#27539118)
Do you like being tricked to buy things you don't need?

Ever heard of Edward Bernays?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by paulcole on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:56AM (#27540249)
Yeah, I don’t mind it. Realistically I need almost nothing but yet I buy a lot of things. Probably got “tricked” a few times but don’t particularly care.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by nickik on Friday June 18, 2021 @07:58AM (#27549446)
I don't mind intrusive adds. I can control myself and if it helps the side its fine.

However, popups or videos in front of yt, no thanks. As long as it doesn't waste my time or plays sound go ahead.

That said, I have it blocked anyway.

Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by tomjen3 on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:36AM (#27540024)
I too like to buy things, but interrupting me to offer me things I might like is really wasteful. Allow me to submit things I want to buy and then let companies suggest things based on that.
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by paulcole on Thursday June 17, 2021 @10:55AM (#27540236)
I don’t always know what I want to buy. Faster horses and all that…
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by tomjen3 on Thursday June 17, 2021 @03:39PM (#27543701)
True enough. I guess maybe the site could be made to let me share my current pain points?
Re:Virtual reality ads make their way to Facebook's Oculus h... by dncornholio on Thursday June 17, 2021 @08:41AM (#27538938)
This is true.

But I don't like seeing the same ad over and over again. I don't like seeing ads of stuff that I've already bought and I especially don't like to watch a commercial for the thousandth time for a video I'm not sure even is worth watching.

I can agree that ads are not necessarily bad.