Lots of people like gimmicky things better, just like lots of people like to turn up the bass and treble all the way. But lots of us (and I'm a musician and audio engineer) appreciate high quality balanced distortion free audio, and want to hear the music the way the original artist intended. Just because you can make sounds bounce around in space doesn't make the music better, especially if the original recording wasn't conceived that way in the first place. I would always prefer listening to the original intent of the artist.

> I would always prefer listening to the original intent of the artist.

I always prefer listening to the thing that sounds better to me. I don't care about what the artist wants.

Chances are the artist has no idea what kind of speakers you are using anyway

You’re downvoted, but enjoyment of music is obviously subjective. There is no “wrong” way to listen to music (or anything really).

Exactly. This thread is mindboggling.

Taste in music is purely subjective. If users enjoy listening to Spatial Audio, who are you to criticize it as a scam?

Because everyone using Apple music is forced to listen to it. Whether they like the remixes or not.

That just isn’t true.

Settings > Music > Dolby Atmos > Off.

There’s actually a setting to choose

You can choose to enable spatial listening (as opposed to the stereo downmix), but you can't choose to use the original recording.

Yes, you can. I just tested, and it plays the regular stereo track instead.

This isn’t tidal with their MQA scam.

> and want to hear the music the way the original artist intended

Curious how you know what the artist intended. Did they intend for the track to sound like you're at a stadium show or sitting in a small music studio with headphones on?

There is a notion of ‘reference’ in audio and visual information. You can get reference speakers, headphones, and monitors - their role is to reproduce the information without ‘color’. They present ‘faithfully’. This is what is often meant by ‘listen as X intended,’ although to be honest the interest of many audiophiles is to set up a listening environment that does impart some color while remaining faithful to the artistic choices in the mix of the original music. And mixing _is_ an art.

The article suggests, and I agree, that by making what are in effect unauthorized remixes of these works, Apple are interfering with what the artist intended.

Eddie Cue, Apple SVP of Services (in charge of Apple Music) is quoted in the Verge article [1] on this as saying, “This requires somebody who’s a sound engineer, and the artist to sit back and listen, and really make the right calls and what the right things to do are. It’s a process that takes time, but it’s worth it.” Of course you note he says this requires the artist, not present in Marvin Gaye’s case and likely most others, and time, which it is implied is not being given to this process in the article above.

The visual analogy in the article is apt - imagine Apple were revisiting their movie library - including old classics like The Maltese Falcon - and applying a process that makes them viewable in simulated 3D — but that, even further — if that person tries to view it with equipment that doesn’t support the head-turning 3D effect - they see it in an _altered_ version of 2D from the original. And this now becomes canon for a certain group of people - this version that is a byproduct of an effort to reverse the effect of a series of creative decisions made to make a derivative work of the original, done without, in this analogy, the input of the director or cinematographer.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/9/22525028/apple-music-spati...

I imagine the artist approved a (stereo) mix they heard on decent studio monitors and maybe stereo headphones too. I’m not sure how they’d feel about someone else then creating an atmos/spacial audio version without their involvement. Mixing is integral to the artistic part of making recorded music.

I’d be interested to know whether the tracks appearing on Apple Music are being created from the original tracks/stems (i.e. properly remixed), or whether an algorithm is being applied to the same stereo mixdown that would have created a standard (stereo) master.

They are remixed by the original engineers (or at least, an engineer.) Some of them are mixed better than others.

Or what happens with derived works? When you listen to a Coldplay song... do you follow their intent or Kraftwerk's intent? Oh no!

Or music that was composed before modern audio equipment - "If Bach had known about spatial audio! I know he would have loved it" :D

Stockhausen would have been like: ‘Yo dawg…’ :)

Do you end up in a divide by zero situation when the artist intended you to turn the bass and treble all the way up? :)

I think I remember some tracks where the artist is explicitly instructing me to turn up the bass (and make the speakers pop).

Speaking as a musician, I agree that there is a level of respect required for the original mix. Though, in the case of Spacial Audio, this isn't a matter of "gimmicky" sound, this is headphones reproducing the effect that loudspeakers already have. This isn't new and has been in audio engineering circles for a long while (https://goodhertz.co/canopener-studio/) but Apple has added 6dof head tracking which makes the effect truly awe-inspiring.

I just noticed that the author wasn't using the AirPods Pro / Max which Spacial Audio was designed in tandem with. No wonder they didn't find it impressive and are calling it a scam.

TBH, I'm sad I wasted my time reading such an uninformed opinion piece.

I think you're missing one of the main points, which is someone using other headphones is still getting the atmos version, but in normal stereo - and when that happens, large parts of the balance of the mix are lost as he explains in the section on What's Going On. So it's not the original track as the artist, mix engineer and masterer intended you to hear.

I don't think that's true? There's nothing special about Apple's implementation of Dolby Atmos over headphones besides the head tracking bit (and that's not needed for music) that need their headphones. If you set Dolby Atmos to "Always On" in the settings it will give you the Atmos headphones mix regardless of what headphones being used. Airpods and Beats are still just stereo headphones.

Atmos works pretty well over normal stereo headphones and I've used it for years on PC while watching supported Blu-rays.

I'm kinda peeved at Apple's lazy implementation because it's only supported on Apple devices and not devices that support Atmos and work with Apple music like a PC or Samsung Android phone.

It’s supported in the beta version of Apple Music for Android.

I initially thought the same on another article, however it turns our spatial audio in the apple music sense, is not exclusive to the pros/max - despite sharing the same name as the head tracking-esque feature in those headphones.

Quite disappointed as it is quite obviously confusing

you're conflating unrelated things

6dof has nothing to do with SpaTial audio and no AirPods Pro/Max weren't designed 'in tandem with' it

you'll get Apple's positional audio (6dof) only with supported hardware - which includes AirPods Pro/Max, iPads and AppleTV - and is designed for positional listening relative to source/device, which has nothing to do w/ Atmos mixed Apple Music spatial tracks discussed here

(and it actually might be 3dof only, not sure since i've never listened to it)

I was with you until you said that "Apple has added 6dof head tracking which makes the effect truly awe-inspiring", and I laughed so hard I spit out my coffee.

Thank you so much.

Gave me a good chuckle too. Have a great day!

Apple AirPods pro/max headtracking is 3dof not 6dof - it tracks rotation but not location.

It would be fun to be able to walk around a virtual space to get closer to different sound sources/instruments but that’s not what’s on offer here.

I have listened to a lot of the spatial audio songs from AM on my AirPod Pros. It's a mixed bag. Some I think are really good, some not so much. But, the good/great ones are enough to make me excited about the potential. I feel like the bad ones might be from people still figuring out how to best master them.

What speakers did you listen back on? I don't know anybody with a setup to play these back and I know some crazy audiophiles.

From footnote 8 on https://www.apple.com/apple-music/

> Works with AirPods, AirPods Pro, AirPods Max, BeatsX, Beats Solo3 Wireless, Beats Studio3, Powerbeats3 Wireless, Beats Flex, Powerbeats Pro, and Beats Solo Pro.

Am I missing something?

> Am I missing something?

Yes, that's just for the automatic switch to Dolby Atmos. You can set "Dolby Atmos: Always" in Settings → Music.

> When you listen with compatible Apple or Beats headphones,8 Dolby Atmos music plays back automatically when available for a song. For other headphones, go to Settings > Music > Audio and set Dolby Atmos to Always On.

So, works with any headphones, as long as they have an apple brand sticker attached?

There's nothing technologically special about most of these.

I’m assuming they also have some special hardware/firmware for the head tracking feature

Lol, no.

I mean, most headphones don’t have accel/gyro - makes sense for Apple to use proprietary protocols for this, no? Also, see HN guidelines for comments.

Please review the list of supported headphones, and review their features. No, there is nothing special about most of them. If the feature is supported for all of them, then any are headphones/ earphones are capable of supporting it. Anyone with half a clue would see this, so, in not so may words, "Lol, no".

Also, respectfully suggest that you review the HN guidelines WRT your own comment. "I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'm going to comment anyway" is clearly covered.

Maybe I’ve been unclear. Way I see it, Apple’s “spatial audio” branding really means a couple things.

1. Dolby atmos, obviously this is industry standard

2. Head tracking, where sound stays in the same direction despite movement. Introduced last year for the listed headphones, works on some video streaming services. Not supported by Apple Music yet but supposedly coming soon.

I only meant that the head tracking seems specific to apple headphones. If you still feel I’m dull please knock some sense into me.

If you want Atmos you need either headphones that support the audio, or a multichannel reciever. Which are a dime a dozen. "Crazy audiophiles" won't have one because they spent all their money on $1,000/metre audio cable, CD-colouring pens, and magic rocks to balance their turntable on.