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Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by firebaze on Friday May 28, 2021 @04:03PM (#27319831)
I can't second this. Everytime I'm in the US I'm scared of all the friendly, smiling people, asking "How are you?" in such a friendly tone, it's delightful. Of course it's faked, anyone knows, and dare if you'd reply with "not good, my aunt just died". Awkward situation ensues, everybody tries to get out of the situation ("and what would you like to have for breakfast tomorrow?").

Now replay the same situation in another ("non-friendly") culture. Most of the "not-friendly" cultures would invite you to a free beer, asking what happened etc.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by sebular on Friday May 28, 2021 @04:57PM (#27320416)
I'm an American and I love smiling at strangers and receiving a genuine smile in return. It's the perfect minimal conversation: no words, just sharing a moment of mutual positivity and kinship. It's like you said the perfect thing, except you didn't have to think of anything clever.

It sounds as though people in some countries interpret it as if the smiling person is on the inside of a joke and you're on the outside, or even the object of ridicule. As if the default is hostile intent. It sounds like a terrible thing to assume about your fellow stranger, to be honest.

Maybe the point is that if you start off assuming maximum hostility, the reality is more likely to be a pleasant surprise?

At any rate, we have common ground when it comes to those meaningless questions. They're hollow and they ruin the perfection of a nice wordless smile or simple "hi" or "hey". The absolute worst is when you pass a stranger and say "hi" and they respond to your back as they walk off into the distance, "hey, how ya doin?"

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by wruza on Saturday May 29, 2021 @08:12AM (#27324742)
You are thinking that they’re assuming hostility, when all they assume is you being neutral and tactful by default. The logic is: “we don’t know each other and have no reason to feel happy about something between us, for there is none [yet]”. If you smile at me, I think that you’re either happy about me, i.e. are focusing on me (which is inappropriate unless you’re someone I could in theory adore(smile at genuinely?), e.g. a girl, a puppy, etc), or you find something funny in me. It’s nice that you are open and friendly, but the way you do it isn’t tactful, and is too intimate for a stranger. You’d probably feel the same if you stood on a pier alone watching sunset, and some stranger moved beside, right next to your shoulder, never saying a word. So open, friendly and non-hostile, but something wrong – that’s personal space in action. We just have emotional personal space that no one dares to enter without invitation or at least enough courage.

It’s not a criticism, just explanation of what other people feel. Now for a criticism (well lack of understanding really):

Americans are obsessed with being Happy. They’re always smiling, and when bad things happen, they’re sad, but at the same time they’re okay, it’s fine. But isn’t that a contradiction? They are lying. What’s even wrong with feeling bad (or just neutrally sad, inert, nostalgic) and not finding other’s happiness encouraging? Why are they even copying other’s emotions, when they should have their own? People have a spectrum emotions (more than 50 of them) for serious neurological reasons, and they feel every one of them, not only “good” and “fine”. Why are they denying everything except happiness and love, when it’s normal to feel all of the spectrum sometimes?

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by chousuke on Saturday May 29, 2021 @04:13AM (#27323795)
I don't know how much of this is me being Finnish, but I personally don't even know how to smile at will; a smile is something that happens naturally and trying to deliberately smile at people when I'm not actually feeling it just makes me feel dishonest and usually results in a grimace instead.

While I might really be enjoying a good walk in the sun for example, I can't really say that it makes me want to smile at every random passer-by.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by yakshaving_jgt on Saturday May 29, 2021 @04:48AM (#27323911)
The curious thing to me is why all of the generalising people are doing in this comment section is any different from “perpetuating stereotypes”, which almost universally has negative connotations.

If you’re Finnish, I might say you don’t often smile but I bet you know how to neatly drift a rally car through a forest at considerable speed.

Why is some generalisation good? And others bad?

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by chousuke on Saturday May 29, 2021 @07:26AM (#27324544)
Stereotypes do have a bit of truth to them, usually, though sometimes the stereotypes are just people misinterpreting others based on their own expectations. I don't know how to drive rally at all, but there are aspects of the "stereotypical Finn" that I recognize in myself.

Finns generally demand a larger personal space and thus may appear as "cold" to someone used to being in closer proximity, but it is what it is.

Believe me, I'd love to be able to act less reserved around new people, but I find it hideously difficult, and if I don't feel outgoing, I can't force myself to act that way because it causes me intense discomfort.

As for smiling, it might just be that for Finns a "neutral" face is perfectly polite and a stranger's smile elicits a stronger reaction (either positive or negative depending on context) while people from the US might expect a smile as the default state and thus react less strongly to it.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by throwaway316943 on Friday May 28, 2021 @06:06PM (#27321087)
I don’t think people are assuming hostility, the article explains that it simply means a different thing e.g. laughter instead of positivity. Imagine if you were to go about your day winking at everyone you saw, people would think you were strange or somewhat crazy, they might think you’re hitting on them or perhaps had some sinister intent.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by iJohnDoe on Friday May 28, 2021 @11:02PM (#27322711)
> It sounds as though people in some countries interpret it as if the smiling person is on the inside of a joke and you're on the outside, or even the object of ridicule.

I would say this is pretty common in the USA. Anyone smiling or laughing, especially in the customer service industry, can easily be interpreted that they are up to something. Makes customers uncomfortable. Obviously a generalized statement, but it seems most food and customer service industries despise their customers.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by gsk22 on Friday May 28, 2021 @05:59PM (#27321011)
You're misunderstanding what the phrase "how are you" means in the US. It is not a literal question, but a set phrase with implicit social rules for "correct" responses.

This doesn't mean the person asking is faking kindness - but also understand they're not actually asking for a rundown of how your life is going. Negative responses to the question are ok, just not deeply personal answers.

Tom Scott has an excellent video that addresses this very issue.

https://youtu.be/eGnH0KAXhCw

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by vbezhenar on Friday May 28, 2021 @06:24PM (#27321237)
It's the same in Russian actually. You're saying "how are you" ("как дела") after "hello" ("привет"), but you're not really expecting any meaningful answer other than "I'm OK" ("нормально") or "I'm fine" ("отлично").

But it might be one way to start a conversation when you want to tell something you don't like. Like "How are you? I'll live. What happened? ...". But it's more of closed friends conversation when you can feel OK sharing your burdens with other person. I guess, similar thing could happen in US?

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by Clewza313 on Friday May 28, 2021 @08:32PM (#27322082)
From now on, I need to start responding to "How are you?" with "Normal".
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by sray on Friday May 28, 2021 @09:41PM (#27322429)
My favorite response to “How are you?” comes from a Russian former coworker: “Average. Worse than yesterday, better than tomorrow”.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by andai on Saturday May 29, 2021 @01:39AM (#27323290)
I heard this phrase described as "Russian Optimism".
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by Slow_Hand on Saturday May 29, 2021 @02:37PM (#27327292)
American here:

I did it last night with a cashier and she laughed and was, I think, amused by the novel response. It seemed to brighten her up a small amount. She then continued to make conversation by saying “Well let’s see if we can’t get you to better than normal.” That was slightly offputting and I wish she didn’t feel the need to take it there. I’m perfectly content with feeling “normal”.

I suppose the way I think of it is like dynamic range of expression. Normal is baseline and perfectly suitable. It’s where I like being. Great or bad are for special cases where I feel extraordinary.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by ph0rque on Friday May 28, 2021 @08:54PM (#27322205)
My go to answer is, "can't complain". Vague enough to leave it alone if the question is trivial, but also open-ended enough to expound upon if the other person is genuinely interested in my well-being.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by CRConrad on Thursday June 03, 2021 @08:37AM (#27380330)
Reminds me of the old joke:

-- What, "can't complain"? Really? You're in a Siberian prison camp, starving and freezing your toes and fingers off, and you "can't complain"?

-- Yes, when you're in a Siberian prison camp, you can't complain...

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by scruple on Saturday May 29, 2021 @01:38AM (#27323288)
Me, too. It's a very Midwestern response... [0]

[0]: https://youtu.be/vm-MrkoJPC8?t=35

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by gsk22 on Saturday May 29, 2021 @01:55AM (#27323341)
I also like "hangin' in there" -- especially since Covid started.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by zarq on Friday May 28, 2021 @07:25PM (#27321677)
Fun experiment, try asking "how are you" a second time. A lot of Americans will respond instinctively, without wondering why you asked again.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by beebeepka on Saturday May 29, 2021 @09:12AM (#27325007)
Funny. Is the second round more honest or just as shallow?
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by lostcolony on Friday May 28, 2021 @06:15PM (#27321163)
I always enjoyed the "how is it going", and then not even waiting for a response before moving forward with the conversation. I'm a native born American, have traveled outside of the country only a handful of times, and yet I still find it jarring to be asked that.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by firebaze on Wednesday June 02, 2021 @05:23PM (#27374188)
What you write is true from an US point of view, and that's the point of my comment. In Europe you wouldn't ask anyone how she/he feels when you don't want to accept and reply to the response, even if it is deviating from the expected (happy) response.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by djmips on Friday May 28, 2021 @06:07PM (#27321098)
I don't think so. Try it "not good, my aunt just died" and not every American but many would try to comfort you. Not saying it wouldn't be a bit awkward but that it's not 'just faked' and everyone tries to get out of any real emotion.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by sebmellen on Saturday May 29, 2021 @12:33AM (#27323048)
True!

I have people tell me their bad news or downers pretty often when I greet them with “how are you?”, and my care or sympathy for the situation they’re in is not at all insincere.

I’m half German, and my grandfather always found it absurd to visit the US and have everyone saying “thank you” and “sorry” and smiling all the time. His opinion was that this behavior devalued the true meaning of a “thank you” or a smile.

Interestingly, Germans have now adopted two words for sorry, one being just “sorry” (spoken with a guttural “r”) and the other being “Entschuldigung“ — literally translates to something like “acceptance of blame.” The German “sorry” is much more common, and “Entschuldigung” is reserved for the true apologies, maybe analogous to “I apologize” in American English. Then it might be “ich entschuldige mich” or “I place the fault on myself.”

I mention this because it seems the “American” way of being more colloquially friendly is becoming more adopted in parts of Europe, especially by younger generations in areas like Germany and the Netherlands. Maybe this is just from exposure to American media.

Whatever the cause, I find this shift pleasant, as it saves me from having to code-switch between American friendliness and German staunchness when I talk with friends or family there (except for the older generations).

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by dazdaz on Saturday May 29, 2021 @04:35AM (#27323871)
The phrase 'Ich entschuldige mich' is an abomination. The literal translation would be 'I excuse myself'.

Instead, you're supposed to say 'Ich bitte um Entschuldigung' (I beg your forgiveness) - thus you're asking the person who was wronged for forgiveness. It should not be the choice of the wrongdoer to decide whether to be forgiven or not. Though to be fair, commonly it's used just as you described.

If I remember correctly, Kraus has at least once written about this specific phrase.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by sebmellen on Saturday May 29, 2021 @02:43PM (#27327338)
Yes, fair point, the "ent" is literally something like "de-," so you are "de-blaming" yourself or "freeing <subject> from blame."

But in common parlance, I think the phrase "Ich entschuldige mich" is really meant more to say "I apologize" than anything else. I guess this could be a place where descriptivists and prescriptivists differ in their interpretations (and I lean a bit more towards being a descriptivist).

I haven't studied German society closely enough to know what people really mean with this phrase, but this is how I've always interpreted and used it, and other people seem to use it in this manner as well.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by CRConrad on Friday June 04, 2021 @02:41AM (#27391217)
I thought it meant mostly "Sorry, I'll have to be absent for a while" -- as in, a euphemism for "I have to go to the loo". Isn't that how it's often used in English too?
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by kaliszad on Saturday May 29, 2021 @09:30PM (#27329826)
You can also say "Verzeihung" (as in pardon) or "Ich bitte um Verzeihung/ Entschuldigung".

You wouldn't say "sorry" apologising for coming late to school/ work in Germany that would be too casual in such a situation.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by jasondigitized on Friday May 28, 2021 @06:27PM (#27321254)
As an American, I can tell you for some of us, its not faked. We just like people, genuinely, and really enjoy interacting with them.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by nomel on Friday May 28, 2021 @06:29PM (#27321272)
My favorite part about the pandemic is that I can smile constantly under my mask, even while picking out soup at the grocery store, without looking like an idiot.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by ribs on Friday May 28, 2021 @08:03PM (#27321951)
Not only that, but everybody now has one thing they can talk about with virtually anyone else, any stranger. One commonality.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by CRConrad on Friday June 04, 2021 @02:42AM (#27391223)
We've always had the weather.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by AnimalMuppet on Friday May 28, 2021 @05:44PM (#27320895)
In America, if your aunt just died, I would say "really bad, but thanks for asking". They asked superficially; I answered superficially but honestly. I left an open door for them to ask more if they want to. If they don't, well, it was superficial conversation, and I won't be surprised or disappointed, and I hope I didn't put them on the spot too much.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by geocrasher on Friday May 28, 2021 @06:08PM (#27321101)
"I'm very sorry to hear that. "- Keeps walking.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by sunshineforever on Saturday May 29, 2021 @01:05AM (#27323169)
I don't want to leave that door open.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by darkerside on Friday May 28, 2021 @07:42PM (#27321800)
It's just a different protocol. You don't respond with details right away, you say, "Actually not great" with some emotion. If the person cares, they will ask, what's wrong? Then you unload.

You might as well get mad at HTTP when you send a malformed request.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by rconti on Friday May 28, 2021 @06:37PM (#27321346)
It's not fake to smile at someone you do not know and ask how they are. It's merely a greeting.

All cultures have context clues. Your surgeon might have just met you, but be legitimately concerned about your condition. Your best friend might be interested in your emotional state. The stranger on the street might merely be "polite", or hoping/wishing you are having a good day, but neither wanting to hear a full dissertation on your emotional state, nor a recitation of your medical history that a doctor might find relevant.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by geocrasher on Saturday May 29, 2021 @02:22AM (#27323425)
I am American. I have transitioned from saying "How are ya?" as a greeting to "Good [day,morning,evening]" etc. It's every bit as polite and does not feign concern.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by playingchanges on Friday May 28, 2021 @05:49PM (#27320936)
I have to tell you as an American and kinda grumpy one at that, if you get a smile and hi on the sidewalk as we pass each other it’s purely out of love for mankind.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by Jetrel on Saturday May 29, 2021 @08:49PM (#27329628)
IME as a US resident, it's not fake, for most of your audience. It's fake for the natural slice of the audience that are on the selfish/narcissist spectrum - they're forced to parrot it as a broader cultural norm, but for everyone else who's even merely neutral on the empathy spectrum, it's a license to actually be nice and not get hammered with suspicion for it.

That said - it has to be noted that if you're interacting with "service workers" (any clerks at stores, hotels, restaurants, etc), there's a really horrible catch-22 ubiquitous in the corporate world. Those people are forced by corporate rules to be obsequiously friendly ... but are also so overworked that they generally have no time to actually help someone with anything that's not a direct job duty.

It really sucks because, traditionally, in the sense of i.e. a bartender/barista, that's actually supposed to be a large part of the "hospitality" job. They're supposed to be someone you can talk at length to, and traditionally have functioned like an entry-level therapist/counsellor in society. Unfortunately the fast-food mentality has trickled into a lot of institutions like that, and most of them are too busy fulfilling orders to do anything of the sort.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by irrational on Friday May 28, 2021 @06:16PM (#27321174)
This is one of the reasons I hope wearing masks in public becomes a permanent thing. I don't want anyone to know whether I am smiling or not.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by TchoBeer on Saturday May 29, 2021 @01:44AM (#27323307)
This sounds like a made up distinction. If I asked someone "how are you" and they reply about how they're having a hard time because a family member died I would definitely not "try to get out of the situation", and I can say the same for the people around me, for the most part.
Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by OJFord on Friday May 28, 2021 @06:29PM (#27321270)
Thank you so much! You're so welcome!

There's only one word 'y'all' need: 'cheers'.

Re:Why Russians do not smile (2002) by 1123581321 on Friday May 28, 2021 @05:43PM (#27320887)
Sorry, I wish we were better at this. I can tell you that there's a difference between our quick "hey, how are you" said in passing and "how are you" where the person is facing you, not moving, and waiting for an answer. In the second situation, Americans would consider anyone who doesn't respond to sad news with concern to be rude. Not many will invite you to drink on the spot, though.