America’s Dead Souls

Re:America’s Dead Souls by Judgmentality on Thursday May 20, 2021 @03:33PM (#27225987)

I don't understand how this is legal, let alone upheld by a state Supreme Court. How can I be legally responsible for my parents? How would the courts even find me if I don't live in the US anymore (the example case is the courts successfully suing a man who moved to Greece)?

I am thankful to you for bringing this to my attention, but my WTF! meter is soaring.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by gumby on Thursday May 20, 2021 @05:34PM (#27227606)

> How can I be legally responsible for my parents?

Well your parents are legally responsible for you for a period of time. There are many countries (I am most familiar with Germany in this regard) where the children are considered responsible for the parents. I was not aware this was the case in the USA.

In some countries it's quite difficult / impossible to disown or disinherit various relatives.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by Archelaos on Thursday May 20, 2021 @09:25PM (#27229514)

In Germany, the obligation to pay alimony depends on the child's income. Only when the childs income (before taxes) excceeds 100,000 Euros per anno she/he has to pay something. There exists no obligation to pay alimony for grandparents.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by ng12 on Friday May 21, 2021 @01:03AM (#27230698)

What if you're estranged from your parents? If you haven't talked to them for twenty years are you still liable?

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by Archelaos on Friday May 21, 2021 @04:50AM (#27231827)

The law provides for exceptions in serious cases. However, the German Federal Court of Justice has interpreted this quite strictly. A son who had no contact with his father for 40 years and was disinherited except for the compulsory portion still had to pay alimony. The court reasoned that the son had received substantial assistance from the father during his first 18 years and that the father had only made use of his right to testamentary freedom.[1]

Just a side note: If someone has received gifts from a person who later becomes destitute, he or she must return the gift under certain conditions (the gift was made no more than 10 years ago, the recipient was not destitute on his or her part, it was not a gift of decency such as a small birthday or Christmas present, etc.).

[1] BGH, Judgment of 12 February 2014, Az. XII ZB 607/12 (PDF, in German) http://juris.bundesgerichtshof.de/cgi-bin/rechtsprechung/doc...

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by s1artibartfast on Thursday May 20, 2021 @03:55PM (#27226288)

In the example you mention, it was the parent that went to Greece. It was a child living in the US that was forced to pay.

It is actually worse than that. Many states also have criminal penalties allowing incarceration for financial neglect of parents.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by notsureaboutpg on Thursday May 20, 2021 @07:14PM (#27228645)

Realistically, when parents get old, it is their children who become responsible for them. I feel like this is quite common sense... especially seeing as children inherit from their parents...

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by paulryanrogers on Thursday May 20, 2021 @08:51PM (#27229311)

Consider that parents may have children in their mid 40s. These children are effectively dependent until ~20. Often they'll accrue significant debt to pay for college. Then 10-15 years later their parents may need significant care. If those parents weren't wealthy or careful to save then these children could find that they've few if any years free of heavy financial or caretaking burdens. Then consider they may want children of their own.

The lack of a real social safety net in the US really feels like previous generations pulling up the ladder.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by Judgmentality on Thursday May 20, 2021 @08:56PM (#27229338)

> The lack of a real social safety net in the US really feels like previous generations pulling up the ladder.

At first I misread the last word as 'latter' and I was confused because it completely reverses the meaning. English is fun sometimes.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by s1artibartfast on Friday May 21, 2021 @12:38AM (#27230560)

Parents choose to have a child and should have the responsibility to care for them. Despite this, there are still mechanisms by which parent can legally abandon their children. Children do not choose to be born, so the moral contract is different. I would agree that most people who were cared for as children should care for their elders, and should want to. But what if they hate or despise their parents. Do they “owe” for what the parents did despite never agreeing to the obligations.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by vincnetas on Friday May 21, 2021 @04:06AM (#27231584)

Children do not choose to be born, don't want to sound cynical, but they can undo it quite easily. If you think about it, being born is best thing that could have happened to you. Because without it actually nothing could have happened to you. So being alive is better than not to exists at all.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by fineIllregister on Thursday May 20, 2021 @10:10PM (#27229769)

Except parents can will nothing to their children if they choose? Many people inherit absolutely nothing from their parents.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by UncleOxidant on Thursday May 20, 2021 @03:21PM (#27225810)

This is pretty damn scary. Are debtor's prisons about to make a comeback too?

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by giantg2 on Thursday May 20, 2021 @03:36PM (#27226030)

Dude, that's basically what we have now. Bond, fines, court fees, lawyer fees, prison labor, etc. Even if you win, you still lose financially.

Edit: I forgot a big one. The early intervention or accelerated rehabilitation programs cost tons of money, paid both to the system and to the vendors of ignition interlocks, ankle bracelets, etc. You really are paying to stay out of prison.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by wldcordeiro on Thursday May 20, 2021 @04:27PM (#27226754)

They never went away they just rewrote the rules so you go in for something else on paper.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by fakedang on Thursday May 20, 2021 @07:37PM (#27228811)

So basically the system in the medieval Arab Gulf countries. Unbelievable.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by gabereiser on Thursday May 20, 2021 @05:13PM (#27227356)

We already have them. Inmates in most US jails and prisons are charged a per diem just for being there. It’s disgraceful.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by refurb on Thursday May 20, 2021 @08:23PM (#27229127)

That’s not debtor’s prison?

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by gabereiser on Thursday May 20, 2021 @08:50PM (#27229304)

Imagine being locked up for not paying fines, only to be fined further while your in, and unable to break the cycle...

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by refurb on Thursday May 20, 2021 @09:59PM (#27229708)

Right, that’s not great, but that’s not what people mean by debtors prison.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by gabereiser on Friday May 21, 2021 @12:47AM (#27230605)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtors%27_prison

If someone is unable to pay their debt, they are thrown back in jail, accruing more debt. How is this not a debtors prison? Perfect examples are listed on this wikipedia article. Child-support, garnishments, confiscations, etc. It's exactly what I described.

https://lasentinel.net/if-youre-poor-in-america-debtors-pris...

Inmates who are unable to pay their fees (for even being in jail) are unable to leave. For-profit prisons are real.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by Aperocky on Thursday May 20, 2021 @05:52PM (#27227854)

So.. what if they don't pay?

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by notac on Thursday May 20, 2021 @06:21PM (#27228151)

often you're billed after release, can take it from any pay you make when you're out, etc. It's pretty evil.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by gabereiser on Thursday May 20, 2021 @07:08PM (#27228580)

You find yourself with a judgement and garnishment should you ever be employed.

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Re:America’s Dead Souls by vkou on Thursday May 20, 2021 @05:05PM (#27227253)

Your post implies that they have ever went away. They haven't, there's just a large middle-class America that's largely insulated from the barbarism of its legal system.

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[dead]

Re:America’s Dead Souls by dang on Friday May 21, 2021 @08:20PM (#27241774)

Please don't post flamewar comments to HN, and please don't fulminate. The experience of being surrounded by demons in a web forum like this is a mechanical one that follows from its structure. I've tried to explain this many times. I hope one of these explanations may be helpful, but in any case please don't post like you did here–it does no good for anyone and only makes this place even worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

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