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Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by swyx on Friday April 30, 2021 @06:24PM (#27000237)
heres the list of folks who have publicly announced their departure: https://workflowy.com/s/basecamp-resignation/qrBBdTQydmTKLu0... probably has more context to each in their threads
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by bdowling on Friday April 30, 2021 @06:36PM (#27000379)
I read the first tweet in each of those resignations. Out of 19 resignations, most give no reason for quitting. Five or so tweets cite "recent changes and new policies" as the reason. That reason is so vague that it may refer to the new policy of paying 6 months severance to employees who want to quit.

edit: Excellent point below that the severance agreements probably included a non-disparagement clause, which would restrict what those who took the deal would feel safe disclosing publicly.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by wlll on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:29PM (#27000933)
I know most of the people who left. It's the policy and the method of delivery, not the severance. The severence will make it easier to go for sure, but this is about the policy.

People seem to be making this way more complex than it is.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by predaking on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:39PM (#27001057)
It's pretty common in a situation like this to also carry a no disparagement clause along with the severance. That's also why you see a lot of "today is my last day at Basecamp" with no other "because I disagreed with the policies", etc.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by madeofpalk on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:56PM (#27001226)
It's my understanding that there is no NDA.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by bdowling on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:08PM (#27001832)
Non-disparagement is different from NDA (non-disclosure).
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by swyx on Friday April 30, 2021 @06:46PM (#27000479)
thats a very charitable interpretation. consider the additional signal that they all posted this publicly at the same time. anyway no point trying to mindread. this thing has taken up more mindshare than is really worth.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by bsder on Friday April 30, 2021 @06:49PM (#27000515)
While everybody is latching onto "Hurrr... Durrr... Wokeness." apparently there were also some cutbacks to benefits and allowances and stuff. Most devs read the tea leaves from that kind of thing as as a bellweather for time to GTFO.

My guess is that some of this has been building and the 6 months of severance simply put it into high gear.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by bdowling on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:13PM (#27000765)
> apparently there were also some cutbacks to benefits and allowances and stuff.

They cut a fitness benefit, wellness allowance, farmer's market share, and continuing education allowances. However, they paid each employee the value of the benefit for the year and they created a 10% profit sharing plan. https://world.hey.com/jason/changes-at-basecamp-7f32afc5

It's unclear how much money the 10% profit sharing is worth, except that now it's 50% better for the 2/3 of remaining employees. (edit: Yes, this is an oversimplification.)

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by wlll on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:45PM (#27001117)
Source for this: I used to work there.

> it's 50% better for the 2/3 of remaining employees.

Only in a very simplistic view.

Basecamp runs very lean, ~58 people before this incident, which for the number of customers (large) is a small amount.

Basecamp is going to need to replace ~100% of those people. That means hiring costs, costs for hiring the wrong people, and lack of productivity.

This will most likely cost them more money than they "save".

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by goatinaboat on Saturday May 01, 2021 @04:16AM (#27004398)
costs for hiring the wrong people

I've read a bit more about the background to this now, and they hired someone in December who immediately went on an internal advocacy campaign for their personal politics. So, all of this, is the cost of hiring a "wrong" person.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by wlll on Saturday May 01, 2021 @10:09AM (#27006456)
Sometimes you hire the wrong person, Basecamp has done it before.

Having to replace (currently) 30%+ of your org increases that risk, in addition to the initial costs of hiring all those people and getting them up to speed.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by Sebb767 on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:06PM (#27001818)
> That means hiring costs, costs for hiring the wrong people, and lack of productivity.

Given that they seem to view politic discussions and committees as non-productive and that most of the people that left did so because these were important to them, they'll probably account for parts of their work and their leaving as "lack of productivity" and "hiring the wrong people" already.

EDIT: From a company perspective - not judging either way.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by wlll on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:12PM (#27001864)
You're mis-construing the situation. The people are leaving because of the heavy handed and incredibly insensitive policy making, not because they spent all their time in committees and that's being taken away from them.

All the people that left that I knew were incredibly talented and productive people, they are going to be a nightmare to replace.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by splitstud on Saturday May 01, 2021 @12:13AM (#27003024)
And the people that were going to leave because they were being harassed by these talented people? How much would it have cost to replace them?
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by wlll on Saturday May 01, 2021 @10:07AM (#27006446)
There's no indication that anything like that alternative would have happened.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by Sebb767 on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:38PM (#27002040)
I'm not judging the people that left - sorry if that was received wrongly. I'm trying to say that from the perspective of the company, they probably see this deal less bad than you do.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by wlll on Saturday May 01, 2021 @10:06AM (#27006431)
Knowing what I know about the people who have left (so far) they are very much going to miss the people who have left. I don't know all of them as I left 5 years ago, but the ones I do know are all incredibly competent at what they do, including the ehtire iOS team.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by Rapzid on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:19PM (#27000823)
> except that now it's 50% better for the 2/3 of remaining employees

Spicy.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by swyx on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:54PM (#27001204)
is that mathematically how profit sharing works? game of thrones style? seems like it would create some very perverse incentives.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by Rapzid on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:38PM (#27001614)
I don't know about the math but I would hope a small-ish group of intelligent people likely familiar with game theory wouldn't get wrapped up in selfish, counterproductive tactics.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by dragonwriter on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:52PM (#27001185)
> They cut a fitness benefit, wellness allowance, farmer's market share, and continuing education allowances. However, they paid each employee the value of the benefit for the year and they created a 10% profit sharing plan.

So, the message that is very easy to take from this (since the employees know they work for a profit maximizing firm) is that Basecamp's own expectation of its future profitability was that the 10% profit sharing was likely to be less expensive than the benefits it replaced.

So, yeah, its quite possible that explains some part of the departures as much as the workplace speech code. But its all part and parcel of the same thing: "We're taking away your amenities, more tightly restricting your behavior, and exposing your to more risk" is quite a package.

> It’s unclear how much money the 10% profit sharing is worth, except that now it’s 50% better for the 2/3 of remaining employees.

Assuming the 1/3 that left, including many highly placed, had no role in producing profits. Which would be kind of weird.

And assuming the fact of the mass exodus has no impact on the perception of Basecamp and its product independent of the actual impact the employees had on profits, which would also be weird.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by Sebb767 on Friday April 30, 2021 @08:58PM (#27001762)
> So, the message that is very easy to take from this (since the employees know they work for a profit maximizing firm) is that Basecamp's own expectation of its future profitability was that the 10% profit sharing was likely to be less expensive than the benefits it replaced.

Or that they thought providing a monetary benefit, which each employee is free to spend as they wish, is a more attractive packet and/or better due to the reduced management overhead. Also, depending on how much the benefits cost them and how many employees used them, this might still be a better option for both sides.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by dragonwriter on Saturday May 01, 2021 @12:07AM (#27002992)
> Or that they thought providing a monetary benefit, which each employee is free to spend as they wish, is a more attractive packet and/or better due to the reduced management overhead.

Sure, that's also an easy to reach interpretation. Unlike the other, not one that explains people being more likely to accept a buyout because of the change, so not relevant to the discussion, though.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by wlll on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:32PM (#27000971)
Basecamp isn't going to be running out of money any time soon, they have a massive number of customers, and a tiny staff. It's a profitable company.

The benefits are a minor annoyance. They were likely dwarfed by the switch from Chicago to SF wages for the whole company, + the profit share.

This is about the policy and the way it was announced.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by ljm on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:28PM (#27000916)
I agree with this. The piece about benefits was weird and alarming to me.

If your employee gave you the individual cash value of your gym membership, it would be based on their corporate discount and the fact it was pre-tax. You would have to dip into your own pocket to renew that membership as an individual, as it would come after tax and be more expensive (joining fees, contract lock-in...). And what a shitty cop-out to call it paternalistic, as if the whole post didn't reek of paternalism.

A 10% profit share between 50 people is replacing a solid perk with an unpredictable annual bonus.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by wlll on Friday April 30, 2021 @07:38PM (#27001044)
This is really simple, it's about the policy and the way it was announced, there's little more to read into the situation.

Minor points:

There was no corporate gym membership, it was just "Here's $100, spend it on fitness".

> A 10% profit share between 50 people is replacing a solid perk with an unpredictable annual bonus.

Basecamp was a phenomenally profitable company. The profit share was brought in after I left, but I'd have taken it over the other benefits if it had been either/or.

Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by bradleyjg on Friday April 30, 2021 @09:36PM (#27002022)
I don’t think a gym benefits can be pretax. Maybe if the employer owns the gym. What a company can pay for and not have it count as compensation is more limited than you’d think.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by Oddskar on Wednesday May 05, 2021 @02:03PM (#27053402)
Depends entirely on the country. There are some Scandinavian countries that can give very generous fitness benefits since it's a tax writeoff.
Re:“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts t... by Papirola on Saturday May 01, 2021 @07:12AM (#27005302)
didn't all this issue start because of a list of names?