Designing an electric car has a lot of different design tradeoffs than a gas car, so cars that are designed from the ground up as electric are going to perform better than gas cars that are electrified.

The biggest two factors are that the battery is large and heavy, but is flexible in the shape it assumes. For good handling, you'd like to have this weight as low on the car as possible, and close to the center. The almost universally accepted solution is the skateboard design, where the batteries sit under the passengers, spread out over a large area.

The electric motors are also small and you can do away with a lot of systems like the transmission, exhaust, starter motor, alternator, gas tank, various pumps, pollution controls, etc. This means much less need for under hood space.

Once you take these factors into account, the designs of various EVs make a lot of sense.

This is all completely orthogonal to the exterior styling and cladding. If you look at many of these electric vehicles, they have odd two-tone color schemes (eg i3), strange C pillars (Leaf, Prius, Bolt), and some twisted attempt by the designers to make them look “futuristic”.

But Tesla's cars are exactly this - they are largely gas sedans that look normal and are electric.

People don't want some dorky looking electric car like Volkswagen's or BMW's. They want a normal car that's electric.

Teslas are not “gas sedans”. They are purpose built EVs. They are sedans and are one of the few sedans that are still selling. Most other manufacturers had seen their sedan market evaporate to the point that they have dropped those models entirely.

Since the current EV market is still very small, manufacturers target the most popular body style to maximize their sales. That is currently an SUV/CUV in the US and in many markets. It is to be hoped that, once the EV market gets large enough, there will be room for different body styles such as sedans or smaller hatches. Personally, I would prefer something closer to the ID.3 but that is not something I expect to see in the US any time soon.

The pseudo-fastback sedan actually wasn't nearly as popular until around the time the model S came out. Then I started seeing it in a lot more cars, especially luxury, where the rear window comes down almost to the edge of the trunk. I'd always credited the S with kicking off the trend.

The 4-door coupe body style became popular in 2007/8. Mercedes and VW both brought out new models with that profile with the fastback rear roofline tapering down to the the trunk.

You forget all the handwringing over the fake grill-less nose when the Model 3 came out.

What’s interesting is that Tesla succeeded in spite of its dorkiness. Yes, you may think it is a “normal” looking car now, but sedans were dying, hatchbacks were dying, and you would be made fun of mercilessly if you had a spoiler on your SUV. But Tesla made cars like that and then succeeded in spite of those design cues and now Tesla owners are trying to make those things cool again.

Tesla might as well come out with a minivan and a wagon, they could probably make people think they were cool.

A cyber mini-van and a wagon is all I could ever want from Tesla.

No. You probably have never driven one if that’s what you think. A Model 3 is inherently different.

The had the eGolf, which was the Golf, but electric. They were almost indistinguishable. The eGolf range was 125 miles, the ID.4 range is 250 miles. That's why they have new specific electric models. Electrifying existing models is generally underwhelming.

Yep. It goes beyond just range.

To make space for the battery they had to use up a chunk of the bootspace. Additionally the massive extra weight means the eGolf handles rather differently (particularly cornering) from a regular Golf.

An ePassat would maybe look like a normal Passat but it wouldn't be as practical, it would have barely any range and wouldn't drive like one.

I see what you mean, but that is not always going to be a good idea as electric cars is more than a change of motor.

Much more aerodynamic, lighter, different frames for lower centre of gravity, different controls, dashboards, etc. (I am not a car designer). So a car designed from scratch will complete these much better than a simple conversion.

OK, but BEVs are heavier than gas-powered cars because of the the battery is heavy.

It looks like a Honda CUV or Toyota Rav-4 to me. Not sure where your outrage is coming from.

No, I'm asking - is this a VW, but electric, or is this an e-initiative space-car ? Genuinely unsure.

I would classify the Chevy Bolt (which we own) as the latter .

Well, not typical for HN, a lazy question. But I'll bite. You could have looked at the video, it's only 2 minutes. ID.4 is a pretty boring/normal looking car.

Now, for the e-initiative, it's an e-initiative all right. A $86 billion over 5 years e-initiative (https://www.reuters.com/article/volkswagen-strategy-idUSKBN2...) :-)

ID.4 is based on an entirely new VW platform (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MEB_platform) which is already used for 6 models and it will probably be used by 60+ in 2 years' time.

It's practically VW's future. They're betting the farm on it.

It’s boring/normal looking relative to other EVs but it’s still a bit of an e-concept compared to a typical ICE car.

Compare: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_ID.4 vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_Q3

I think that if there is any real difference, it's really minute and not worth arguing about...

I went from a Bolt to now having an ID4. So far it seems to fall in the VW but electric category (although this is my first VW, so take that with a grain of salt). Major things I prefer over the bolt: nicer (in my opinion) interior, more interior space, travel assist is pretty awesome, slightly longer range, and higher fast charging rate. The higher fast charging rate is what's making it more viable for us to take that instead of my wife's gas car for trips, since charging stops don't need to be as long.

The ID.4 could be considered to be an electric version of the VW Tiguan. It is similar in internal size and capacity and it targets the compact CUV customer but with electric drive train. It does use a newer platform. Even the styling is quite restrained and conservative compared to other EVs.

Well, it's the same platform as all their other cars. So I'd say it's a VW.

They are creating a new brand altogether, much as they did with the Beetle 80+ years ago. This line of vehicles are intended to replace the Passat, Jetta, etc, not be their electric alternative.

"I don't want a new-fangled 'automobile', I want a horse with wheels god damnit!" - probably someone to Henry Ford in 1905.

We have a BMW i3, and being designed as an electric vehicle has its advantages. Not having a center console blocking the way between the front seats has been very convenient at many occasions, for example.

Not saying the i3 is the ideal electric vehicle, but I strongly believe a full-electric vehicle designed as one from the ground up will be better than a electric retrofit.

> I want one of your actual cars, just electric.

VW did that for a while; the eGolf. The (rather similar-looking, in fairness) id.3 that replaced it seems to be doing a lot better.

I do actually want the Polestar 1, since it's drop dead gorgeous. Unfortunately it's a very limited run hybrid car that costs as much as my apartment.

Also weirdly Polestar is also falling into this EV design pitfall. They release a petrol car and it's gorgeous. Then they release an EV and it's misproportioned and ugly.

Polestar 1 is , indeed, Beautiful. However it is not an electric car.

It definitely is. It's a plug-in hybrid.

Audi is that way.

But they have a different problem - they are now making some "trendy" design changes that are screwing all their models equally. No physical buttons, virtual cockpit, "futuristic" styling of the dashboard that makes it look like a glossy fridge door, the replacement of B&O with Sonos, etc.

It is way better to buy a car that is designed from zero to be electric, rather than a car that used to be ICE and now they have tried to fit electric vehicle components to it.

My brother in law has an eSomething for his building business.

The most hilarious is that this van still has the fuel-tank hatch. Complete with springs, locks, rubber etc. Just that there's no hole to put fuel in, when you open it.

Probably one of the most literal interpretations of 'I want my Foo to be electric. Give me an eFoo'.

I presume this tank-hatch is there because changing the factory lines that deliver the plate work, is too costly.

Kia Niro, comes in Hybrid, Plug-in/Hybrid, or EV variants

How else would they justify the 2x price premium for all-electric?

This is a curse of the classic auto manufacturers. Look at the pricing discussed for the all-electric Ford F-150. Somewhere around US$100K. Where the gas car makers have come out with electric cars in a gas car product line, they've usually had about twice the base price.

Electric power is priced as a super-premium trim level. "More car per car".

This provides a huge opening for Chinese automakers, who don't seem to have that hangup. It ought to provide an opening for Toyota, if they ever get off their hydrogen fixation.

In what way is the price of the ID.4 2X? It’s closest match in the VW family is the Tiguan with starts around $26K. Yes, the ID.4 is around $14K more but that is due to the new technology that is slowly becoming more affordable. The first Chevy Volt’s price was around $40K ten years ago while the most recent Volt’s were around $32K last year. I’m sure that VW would prefer to be able to bring the price down to be more competative but in doing so, it would likely be below their cost to manufacture and that is not a good long term strategy.

Have you seen the Mustang Mach E? I suspect it will be a popular vehicle partly because it is designed to look like a nice crossover SUV.

The ID.4 interior has everything I hate about the new generation of vehicles in it. White interior (impossible to keep clean), glossy piano-black trim panels (it's pollen season here - you dare not open a window), no volume knob, and capacitance switches for frequently used functions like the climate control.

It's like the designers got free rein, and they didn't know how people actually interact with their car.

"But it looks cool!" That's the sizzle, where's the steak?

why does that piss you off so much lol. is the truth you dont want others to be able to choose another car?

Do you really want a passat?