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Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by crmrc114 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @12:51AM (#26870805)
I have over 80 IOT devices and three aps. I also live in the middle of nowhere. That being said, I like how all the commenters just go straight to de-auth attacks. The proper solution is to get up knock on the door and talk to them about their signals, ask if they can clear one channel for you. Work with them. OR just you know, buy a router made in the last five years that supports decent 5ghz range and mount it up high.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by Taniwha on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:29AM (#26871017)
Not everyone can use 5Ghz - if you have one of those 50s/60s/70s houses that were build with plaster/chicken wire (rather than lath&plaster or drywall) then at 5GHz you're basically living in a bunch of faraday cages

(at a company I used to work at we once had to abandon a 5GHz product when we discovered that an appreciable numbers of customers would take it home and not be able to make it work reliably - it would have been a support nightmare)

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by NullPrefix on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @04:24AM (#26872095)
People living in Faraday cages rarely complain about radio pollution
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by zeckalpha on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @07:50AM (#26873336)
Or they do but you just never see the complaint
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by astrange on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:40AM (#26871079)
Not all IoT products support 5ghz - some of mine say they don't (Nest Protect) and some say they do but don't work (Nest thermostat, Netatmo). The only way I could get a stable IoT network in my apartment was to set up a 2.5ghz guest network and put all of them on it.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by kylegordon on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:42AM (#26871801)
See also all Espressif ESP devices. Still sadly on 2.4GHz only.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by numlock86 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:31AM (#26872863)
Yeah, really sad. Even the new ESP-C6 that will come with WiFi 6 and BLE 5 only operates on 2.4GHz. :(
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @05:46AM (#26872588)
I live in a relatively modern house (<15 years old) and the 5Ghz signal doesn't make it up the stairs. 5Ghz is 'same room' wifi, and I have Problems with it. It's the same with mobile 5G data, it needs so much more signal towers / transmitters to be effective.

I've hit 'forget' on my home 5Ghz network because it's just unstable upstairs, and my phone isn't smart enough to pick the network with the stronger signal for some reason.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by trhway on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:54AM (#26871130)
>50s/60s/70s houses that were build with plaster/chicken wire

the new townhouses being built near by in MV are exactly this.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by Taniwha on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:04AM (#26871200)
depends on whether it's used for internal walls, chicken wire as part of plaster on external walls alone would help keep the neighbor's interference down

Older chicken wire for internal walls (ie pre-drywall) is the problem at 5GHz (and I'm sure to a lesser extent at 2.4GHz)

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by kevin_thibedeau on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:08AM (#26871234)
Hard to beat steel or aluminum siding to protect yourself from the neighbors.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by korethr on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:20AM (#26871665)
I would love it if those down-voting this comment would explain why. Is this comment untrue? How? Does not metal siding end up grounded, however weakly, by rain downspouts anchored to the side of the house then contacting the ground. Does not a relatively contiguous grounded metal sheet around the exterior of a building attenuate 2.4 and 5Ghz?
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by gnarbarian on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @12:55AM (#26870825)
Talk to your neighbor!?! What is this 1950?
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by k3liutZu on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:25AM (#26870995)
> What year is this, 2019?
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by lrvick on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:13AM (#26871264)
I have maybe around 100 ESP32s. Sensors, bulbs, switches, power monitors, etc.

If someone came at me with a deauth attack I would be incredibly amused and probably make a new friend.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by korethr on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:51AM (#26871480)
I'm probably romanticizing and projecting, but I imagine that scenario going something like this:

* lrvick knocks on guilty neighbor's door.

* guilty party's non-technical brother answers

Brother: Yeah?

lrvick: Hey, I notice you guys have an antenna on the east side of your roof pointed at my house, is that yours?

Brother: Huh? No, that's my sister's.

lrvick: Is she around? It's messing with my Netflix and I'd like to talk to her about it.

Brother: Oh, um, yeah. hold on...

* Brother leans away from door into house and shouts inside, "Hey sis! Neighbor at the door for you!"

* lrvick waits.

* Guilty sister walks up to door

Sister: Can I help you?

lrvick: Is that your antenna on the east side your roof?

Sister: Yes.

lrvick: So, the past month, someone's been messing with my wifi with deauth attacks.

Sister: *mildly indignant* I'm not doing that.

lrvick: Well, The past week, I spread a bunch of sensors around my property and a couple of the neighbors and logged the 2.4Ghz spectrum for the area. I correlated everything and triangulated the attacks to that antenna of yours, which just so happens to be aimed at my house. Here's the logs and spectrum heat maps if you'd like to see.

* lrvick offers Sister the printouts he brought with him.

* Sister takes, looks them over and starts to get that embarrassed flush in the cheeks and ears characteristic of someone who knows they're busted.

Sister: I mean --

lrvick: I'm actually not even mad. It's kind of illegal, but it's also ballsy and I respect that. But I'm not the kind of person to go snitching to the FCC first thing. You do know if we're competing for spectrum, you can come talk to me, and we can coordinate a plan over a couple beers, right?

* Three months later lrvick and Sister are co-presenting a talk at the local hackerspace on counterattacks to deauth attacks.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by Toutouxc on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @04:44AM (#26872217)
I'd just like to say that awkward IT fanfiction is not why I come to HN.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by tclancy on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @07:03AM (#26873025)
You mean it wasn’t. Come for the tech, stay for the meetcute.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by JohnTHaller on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @07:09AM (#26873072)
I'm here for it.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by comfyinnernet on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:26AM (#26872833)
I feel like I wasn't supposed to see that.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by alliao on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @07:26AM (#26873187)
I like how this ends
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by dariusj18 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:12PM (#26878532)
I ship it
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by grep_name on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @10:30AM (#26875163)
Wait, you have 100 IoT devices, all DIY? What's the time trade-off for managing all that?
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by PietdeVries on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:33AM (#26871386)
I can't imagine it's the high number of (IoT) clients that is the problem - it is the high power that the AP's use that causes the issue.

WiFi goes two ways - the AP talks to the client, and the client has to talk back. Clients don't have the high transmitting power that an AP has, and actually the AP won't need this high power. After all, if you use a bullhorn to reach your backyard, but the guy over there can't talk back, there is still no communication.

The solution would be to set the AP's to a lower transmitting power, enough to cover the house but not the street.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by bserge on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:22AM (#26871685)
That would be the ideal solution, but they'd have to adjust tx power on all of their devices. Or at least a significant number of them. Which might prove problematic, since most of them don't allow manual adjustment.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by PeterisP on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @07:28AM (#26873204)
According to the original thread there seem to be 4 APs linking all these devices, so the tx power would be adjusted for those 4 APs.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by yesenadam on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:29AM (#26871018)
> I have over 80 IOT devices

This is a lot to ask, but.. what are all those things?! (My house has 0..I think)

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by dheera on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:40AM (#26871074)
Every light bulb in my home is on Wi-Fi and has its own IP address. And then several outlets have their own IP address. Door locks. Robots. My Christmas tree had an IP address when it was up. My air purifier. My air quality monitor. Security cameras. Lots of things. Seems pretty normal.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by bscphil on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:54AM (#26871136)
> Seems pretty normal.

I think it's safe to assume that 80+ wireless devices puts you in the top few percentiles. So while not unheard of, not "normal" exactly. And even less common in dense apartment environments where having more than 3-4 rooms is unusual.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by mypalmike on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:03AM (#26871193)
Agreed. When I worked in IoT services, I think I only came across 1 instance of a customer with over 10 devices.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by hvidgaard on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:15AM (#26871278)
10 window/door sensors, 5 cameras, 10 radiator thermostats, 20 lightbulbs and some other now that you've started and you're already at 50 while "only" doing the "basic" smart home.

I've heard of at least a handful of people that have done this and more this year alone.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by fogihujy on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:32AM (#26871375)
Yeah, it obviously does happen from time to time, but is it normal? My anecdotal data point: 3 devices all isolated on their own AP with no way to talk to eachother or the rest of the world. 50 is a lot. 120 is just insane. :)
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by hvidgaard on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:35AM (#26871760)
I struggle to figure out how to reach 120 devices, but I can easily see 60-70 if you want a smart home. 3-4 lights in each room, a thermostat, air quality sensor, smoke alert, window sensor, door sensor and a camera. 10 sensors in one room. It's only seems like a lot because it's not mainstream yet.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by fogihujy on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @04:01AM (#26871934)
Yeah, that might just be me. What you are describing sounds completely alien to me. I still struggle with comprehending why people insist on bringing the basic stuff online -- my security cameras should not require Internet access -- but I guess there's a reason I live in an old house on the countryside, and not in the middle of a city. :D

Cameras in each room? It's a privacy nightmare and I frankly don't trust my equipment, my network, nor myself to set that up safely. Especially if the cameras I own are any indication of how the rest work (hard-wired default passwords, security flaws, upload of FTP credentials to some Chinese business' servers, constant attempts at leaking data through DNS lookups when regular traffic is blocked, etc).

Thermostats and humidity sensors make sense if each room has it's own heaters/air conditioners, though.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by adflux on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @07:55AM (#26873375)
Funnily, yesterday I was at someone who has a house outfitted like this. But the battery of his doorbell ran out so I had to knock, LOL.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by dheera on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @12:17PM (#26876696)
Shitty design. Doorbells should never need batteries. Even a tiny, tiny solar power panel and a method of power storage would be able to keep it going indefinitely.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by pbhjpbhj on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @04:13PM (#26894839)
Our door bell harvests the kinetic energy from being pressed and uses that to generate the trigger signal for the base-station. Sadly it fails if the push isn't firm enough, it appears not to have any sort of battery.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by fogihujy on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @08:11AM (#26873512)
That works both ways. We have an actual bell as a doorbell. People knock because they don't realise they can ring the actual bell. -.-
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by marcosdumay on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @11:14AM (#26875793)
I could imagine securely setting up cameras through a house.

Of course, the first thing I would make sure is that they don't connect to the internet or any wireless network. So I can't imagine the ones the GP is talking about being anything other than a privacy nightmare.

By the way, what happened to data over electricity wires? It's the obvious way to set the home automation stuff.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by hvidgaard on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @02:03AM (#26885915)
There are quite a few cameras that record to a device on the internal network - put them on a VLAN that has no outside connection and you have it all. That is quite an advanced setup though and it's good practice to save the recording at another location as well.

LAN over electricity wires is a proper pain in the ass. It's not like you can plug in a "router" to one outlet and have network in all others. It only goes to the group that particular outlet is in, so unless your wiring is made in a particular way, which existing houses aren't since it's not an established standard.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by marcosdumay on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @01:44PM (#26892981)
Well, what is stopping people for creating switches that go into the distribution panel? They can even fit as circuit breakers, so no change at all is necessary.

One would need a large diversity of products to make it work, what puts it out of reach of any small manufacturer. But why the large home automation sellers insist on their "you must add this huge panel, pass all those wires around, and can't retrofit any new device once the layout is settled" technologies is a mystery to me.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by maccard on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @04:12AM (#26872003)
A 10 radiators / 20 lightbulb home is a large home to start with.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by stedaniels on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @09:20AM (#26874224)
Hmmm. My two bed 120 year old house has 9 rads and 28 bulbs. It's not what I, as someone in the UK so used to smaller houses than the US, would call, _large_.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by lostlogin on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @05:57AM (#26872653)
Depending on what systems do, it adds up fast.

A few phones, a computer or two, TV, a few wifi speakers and a miscellaneous light or temperature monitor. It’s not hard to exceed 10.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by jeroenhd on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:45AM (#26872926)
I've got to ask, although I'm afraid I already know the answer: how do you do patch management with that many devices? I've come to the point where I'm running about 12 VM's and patch management has become a bother, so I'm curious how people deal with this stuff when their light bulbs are tiny little servers.

Having said that, if I had the money, I'd totally automate everything in my house as well. It's just too much fun not to.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by mrweasel on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:39AM (#26871420)
80 IoT device seem like a little more than normal, but I wonder how many devices the average person have without really thinking of them as IoT devices.

Some of IoT device you list I’d actively avoid, but thinks like robot vacuums is really useful.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by lb1lf on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:17AM (#26871646)
-I actively tried to avoid IoT devices when I recently built a house, but wound up with quite the handful still.

a) Fire detectors. 13 units including the central. (Basically one in every room where something may conceivably catch fire.)

b) Leakage sensors in any room with faucets or washers in it - 7 units.

c) Kitchen appliances - 5 (Cook top, two ovens, fridge, freezer)

d) HVAC - 7 units (Central ventilation. Heat pump. A handful of electrical panel heaters.)

It quickly adds up - at least if you live in the boonies where land is effectively free.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by mrweasel on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:23AM (#26871691)
The kitchen appliances are a little weird. People keep claiming that it impossible to avoid, but I have yet to see any of them in stores. Not even a gimmicky smart fridge is available.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by Neurocynic on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @05:23AM (#26872453)
Is this not available where you are - https://www.samsung.com/sg/refrigerators/french-door/550l-bl... ? Just an example :)
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by mrweasel on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @07:06AM (#26873051)
Hey, it is available. At 20.000DKK ($3235) and in that double width I don't see many buyers, regardless if it's IoT or not.

Interestingly, at one of the largest Danish chains, it's listed under "American fridges", most of those DO have wifi. If you just pick: "Fridges", then none of them have wifi.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by epse on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:22AM (#26871682)
What does the IOT cook top do?
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by lb1lf on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @04:28AM (#26872120)
-Annoy the heck out of me.

That aside, I fail to see any reason why any user would want their cook top to be accessible via an app.

On the contrary, if the cook top is switched on, I very much prefer to be in the immediate vicinity.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by User23 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @08:51AM (#26873872)
A lot of modern designs have flat controls with no tactile cues that renders them unusable for the blind. Being able to connect with an app using VoiceOver makes the device accessible.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by lostlogin on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:01AM (#26872679)
Even non iot kitchen tech is ridiculous. I tried to buy an oven with as few features as possible. I foolishly assumed that two knobs meant “mode” and “temp”. Nope. It has loads of features which you access by clicking and holding and twiddling one while opposite twiddling the other. Smeg.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by nomercy400 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:36AM (#26871765)
Do your fire detectors still work if the power or wifi go out?
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by lb1lf on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @04:25AM (#26872102)
-Yes; I tried it to make sure after we moved in.

They have backup batteries and form their own mesh network which works independently of the main WiFi.

If the central unit disappears, the detectors still all go off if one is triggered. (Central unit offers app interface and optional 4G fallback network connection.)

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by grecy on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:25AM (#26871336)
> Seems pretty normal

I.. ahh, don't think so.

I graduated from Software Engineering in 2003, and recently worked for Canada's biggest Telco for 4 years. I didn't even know half of the IoT's on your list even existed !

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by sumanthvepa on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:00AM (#26871528)
I love your love of automation. One question: is it harder to say setup one controller with an IP address and WiFi to control a set of dumb light bulbs rather multiple IP enabled bulbs?
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by zaarn on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:12AM (#26871612)
IP-enabled bulbs (or rather, 2.4GHz controlled Bulbs, by whatever protocol) have a bit more nuance to them. A controller could probably at best hope to control a dimmer hooked up to the light bulbs. I've setup my own apartment with the IKEA LED bulbs, which is great for giving more individualised lighting (I use the colored LEDs to provide a dimm red light in the evening to simulate sunset more closely aligned with my actual sleep schedule).
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by nybble41 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @04:28PM (#26881142)
There are non-IP full-color LED bulbs like this Zigbee version[1] which have the same flexibility as the WiFi models. Color and brightness can both be configured dynamically through the controller in response to arbitrary user-defined rules.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Sengled-Multicolor-2000-6500K-Equival...

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by zaarn on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:06PM (#26882464)
My IKEA models are not Wifi either and have a lot of flexibility (and the gateway is offline-first too). I can understand the demand for IP, since it probably simplifies a lot of things about the software stack (and licensing).
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by dheera on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @12:39PM (#26877045)
I usually dislike the "hub" approach to IoT.

There is a wireless LAN in my space, all devices that need connectivity should just use that LAN.

More hubs are more headaches. You need to not lose their power adapters when moving, you need to find a place to put them that is within range of all your devices (may not be as easy as Wi-Fi since they may be using other bands that don't transmit as well or have FCC restrictions, and I already have Wi-Fi mesh network everywhere, you can't easily mesh arbitrary protocols on arbitrary frequencies), you need to set them up using typically a shitty spyware phone app, you need to keep their firmware updated in addition to device firmware. And you also need a hub for every brand of appliance you buy. A Philips Hue hub will not work with some other brand of lights. Whereas you can mix and match hub-less lights and you don't need to have a pile of hubs on a shelf somewhere.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by nly on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:33AM (#26871743)
If I had that many devices I'd definitely have them on their own subnet / NAT setup and block egress to the Internet
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by philjohn on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @04:00AM (#26871915)
Or use light bulbs that communicate over Zigbee
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by lostlogin on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:02AM (#26872688)
Why isn’t more iot stuff wired? POe or even just Ethernet and a separate power supply. I hate giving it wifi.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by Arrath on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @10:35AM (#26875218)
I imagine that powerline networking for lightbulbs would be ideal. Note the serial numbers, screw the bulbs in, plug controller into an outlet somewhere, assign bulbs to groups/rooms by serial#.

But knowing the state of IoT they'd probably take 3-5 seconds after turning on to negotiate connection since the power had been cut, and they'll default to blinding white at full brightness during that time.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by herewulf on Wednesday April 21, 2021 @11:27PM (#26898389)
I've never owned an IoT bulb but I imagine you leave the AC power on to them all the time and they control the light themselves.

I'd much rather have IoT light switches.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by philjohn on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @04:06PM (#26880788)
That's the thing, Zigbee isn't 802.11/wifi based, it IS a radio, but has really great range for low bandwidth purposes like turning a light on or off, and runs from 784-915Mhz (depending on country).
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by Sohcahtoa82 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @05:30PM (#26882012)
> Seems pretty normal.

It's definitely not normal.

I don't feel the need to have a single "smart" light bulb or outlet. If I'm turning a light on or off, it's because I'm leaving or entering the room, in which case I'm walking by the light switch anyways.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by emptyparadise on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @06:18AM (#26872782)
Panopticon
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by vertis on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @05:10AM (#26872372)
What I got from this article was "Person using WiFi complains about another person using WiFi".

I agree with your sentiment. It requires communication. De-authing is not going to solve the problem just make enemies if they work out what the OP is doing.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by bserge on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @03:20AM (#26871669)
Well, if you talk to them first and negotiations break down, they'll immediately suspect you if you start a deauth attack :D
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by bartread on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @08:43AM (#26873806)
The poster on devrant has joined the discussion and it seems like this is exactly what has happened: they spoke to their neighbours, and their neighbours have refused to make any changes.

It does seem like getting some 5GHz hardware would be a relatively straightforward solution but the poster is unwilling to do that. My take is if you want good quality home networking then you need to be willing to pay the price to get that within the constraints of where you live: sometimes that means spending more money than you might like. Such is life.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by irjustin on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:35AM (#26871045)
If you want to run your own IoT devices then you're largely stuck in the 2.5 ghz range.

I'd like to know what 120-ish devices they're running. That's a lot of devices.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by raducu on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @04:51AM (#26872260)
How many channels are there on 5ghz?

To me, the problems seem to be those devices use too many channels, continously?

I recently tried checking some TPMS sensors that I bought with rtl_433 and was amazed by how many sensors can get along just fine in my 10 story appartment buiding, but those messages are really short and only transmitted once every couple of minutes.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by hansvm on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:18AM (#26871298)
> that supports decent 5ghz range

What does that gain exactly? The 5ghz band is so crowded around my apartment that most devices can't connect at all. Is there some fundamental reason it should work better?

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by dvdkon on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:24AM (#26871328)
There are many more WiFi channels in the 5GHz range and the signal drops off faster, so you should have both fewer APs "visible" and more room for them to spread.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by 8128js8121 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:02AM (#26871187)
also no, you use 5ghz, its shit
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by gaudat on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:49AM (#26871112)
The mad scientist in me says to use a microwave magnetron pointing at the neighbor's house to fry all their 2.4 GHz stuff.. Could that work in principle?
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by 01100011 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:21AM (#26871318)
I doubt you'd damage anything permanently but you'd swamp the frontends and cause it to temporarily stop working.

I used to fantasize as a kid about doing this to a satellite. Phased array of cheap magnetrons and all that. I doubt that would work though.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by caf on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:52AM (#26871490)
Not quite the same, but Serbian forces used microwave ovens with the door interlocks defeated as cheap decoys for anti-radiation missiles in the Kosovo war.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by wankeler on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:36AM (#26871399)
Can you phase synchronise magnetrons? I thought they are a free running oscillator.

Also circa 1kW not a safe thing to be spraying around, I think fleshy things might well be damaged.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by walrus01 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @12:56AM (#26870831)
On the other hand, somebody so uninformed on the fundamentals of half-duplex wifi that they would choose to use mesh network extenders everywhere all on the same channel, is a person that I would rate as highly unlikely to listen to a logically reasoned technical explanation.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by recursive on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:35AM (#26871046)
> so uninformed on the fundamentals of the FCC part 15 that ...

You mean... basically everyone?

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by walrus01 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:37AM (#26871056)
I'm not saying "they literally need to know the FCC regs" - but totally uninformed on how to not step on yourself in a half duplex wifi medium in the same channel with all your equipment, yeah.
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by kbenson on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:57AM (#26871153)
Please explain to me the time a hypothetical person that decides to install a bunch of IoT things is referring to a document that explains how to do this? To me this sounds like a classic case of "because of a twist of fate and my hobbies/job/past I happened to do a deep dive on wifi fundamentals at so e point and since I now find it easy and obvious I can't fathom why people with different hobbies/jobs/pasts don't know the same things I find obvious!"
Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by walrus01 on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:59AM (#26871174)
Somebody who has literally 140 discrete wifi based IOT devices yet has put them all on the same channel and is further using half duplex mesh repeaters also on the same single channel, is probably the sort of technology early adopter/enthusiast who thinks they know what they are doing, with a high degree of confidence, but actually doesn't.

I have to admit I am biased by doing some microwave band rf engineering stuff professionally, so my perspective on it is perhaps a bit more critical than others. You could say I've seen how the sausage is made...

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by kbenson on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:33AM (#26871384)
Maybe. Or maybe it's someone that paid for a complete remodel and some contractor sold them on making every light and outlet and appliance "smart" along with some more we can't even think of, because that's all extra money to them, and then they throw whatever else they can find at it to make it work because really, they haven't ever put so many things on one network before.

I've heard crazy stories about home installers and contractors that didn't really know what they were doing. Everyone starts somewhere, and it's not always with our own home nor with a mentor that actually knows what they are doing.

Or, it's just some person that did it for their own home but went way too far and when they finally got it working (sort of) decided they really didn't want to touch it again for a while, because it was a pain.

Truthfully, either of those sound kinda likely to me.

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by PietdeVries on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @02:38AM (#26871416)
I don't think the IoT devices will care that their download speed is somewhat reduced and that they'd have to wait a few ms to get access. These devices will hardly transmit or received any data. Likely a lot of switches, wall outlets and some sensors that you'd want a reading from every minute.

The number of clients should not be an issue, the half-duplex shouldn't be as well...

Re:Neighbour manages to pollute the 2.4 ghz spectrum with hi... by recursive on Tuesday April 20, 2021 @01:40AM (#26871077)
I'm definitely at least that uninformed. I'd like to think I'd listen to a logically reasoned technical explanation. I really don't understand how wifi works and I know this. Sometimes I wish I did, but not quite enough to do anything about it.