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Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by monocasa on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @04:08AM (#26632204)
It's geopolitical. Taiwan is ultimately reliant on the US for defense from China. The DoD wants to maintain close to leading edge chip production on US soil where they feel like they can control the physical chain of security of the chips they use. TSMC builds a fab on US soil, and Taiwan and it's sovereignty wrt to China is better embedded in the power structure of the US defense strategy. The DoD footing most of the bill makes it an easy win.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by vslira on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:42AM (#26633901)
Wait, I'm not sure if I follow. TSMC builds a fab in US soil, guaranteeing American autonomy on chip production. Supposedly the DoD would also require training for American technicians and more critical parts of the supply chain there. This makes Taiwan LESS strategic, not more, for US security, because now the US can build its own chips and isn't vulnerable to a Chinese invasion on Taiwan.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @09:11AM (#26634163)
It makes Taiwan less strategic in time. It makes Taiwan more strategic now, because the US is still dependent on TSMC.

If China has hostile intent it also increases the risk of Chinese action, because - dependent on stockpiles and security - Taiwan is a resource choke point which could potentially decapitate the entire US military machine.

This is a terrible situation for the US to be in.

As the US replaces that capability on its home turf Taiwan's strategic value wanes, which paradoxically makes an attack less likely because China can get what it wants from Taiwan by conventional economic and political means.

The question is... how lucky/aggressive does China feel? And how just-in-time is the US military supply chain?

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by selimthegrim on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:12AM (#26634805)
I doubt all the defense critical military electronics are fabbed over there on 10 nm
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by monocasa on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @03:25PM (#26639164)
They're increasingly into ML inference at the edge, which benefits from (and sometime requires) smaller nodes.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by gowld on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @04:54PM (#26640339)
You and I like smaller nodes because they are more cost effective.

The military doesn't really worry much about price.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by monocasa on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @05:28PM (#26640781)
Sort of. At the gate counts we're talking, it doesn't take long until you can't even fit the chip on a whole wafer of an older node. IIRC, an Nvidia GA100 doesn't fit on a 300mm 65nm wafer (to say nothing of being able to clock it at a viable speed even if you were to cut it down). Going off chip destroys perf for a lot of designs too.

It's not just a price component, but a performance and viability of new designs one, at a time where the DoD internally is pushing ML hard as a major pillar of investment in weapons technology.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by totalZero on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @11:40AM (#26635903)
It's not just the military supply chain. Imagine the economic shockwaves if we weren't able to buy new computers in the US, just for a short time.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by onepointsixC on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @09:55AM (#26634636)
The US consumes 50% of chip supply while only making 10% of the chips. American leadership on both isles have decided that access to chips is a national security issue.

If you're TSMC or Samsung you probably had a conversation with US officials along the lines of: Build fabs in the US, or we will tariff and tax our way back to a mostly domestic, American owned industry. 60% of TSMC's sales are to the US customers. There's not much of a choice there.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by LeifCarrotson on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @09:20AM (#26634260)
The stateside TSMC fab, even with trained technicians, cannot be instantly/effortlessly/losslessly decoupled from the Taiwan fab. That would be a monumental undertaking. Manufacturing is much more complex than that, the site is far more than some technicians, a building, and some machines inside it.

Instead, this move ties the success of the American facility and the Taiwanese facility together, building a bond and interdependence.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:18AM (#26634866)
> This makes Taiwan LESS strategic, not more, for US security, because now the US can build its own chips and isn't vulnerable to a Chinese invasion on Taiwan

Sort of.

TSMC's interests do not perfectly align with Taiwan's. TSMC putting fabs in the well-defended territory of its customers makes sense.

That said, China being able to credibly threaten a critical supply line is a security issue for America. It constrains U.S. response options to an invasion, threatened or acted upon. Removing that constraint does make Taiwan a bit less critical to America. But U.S.-Taiwanese relations predate TSMC. On the net, these plants free America to be more aggressive with China, which is broadly in Taiwan's interest.

Why now? In a word: automation. Semiconductor manufacturing has become far less labor intensive since TSMC was founded in 1987. That makes the American labor premium less material.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by tw04 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:17AM (#26634860)
>This makes Taiwan LESS strategic, not more, for US security, because now the US can build its own chips and isn't vulnerable to a Chinese invasion on Taiwan.

I think you're failing to take into account a number of things. First and foremost the very foundation of the US is based on respecting IP law given we're almost entirely an "information" society. If we suddenly steal TSMC's business secrets because it's convenient, what's preventing Europe and our allies from taking ours? Why would they respect IP law if we don't?

Second, regardless of the technical reliance we have on Taiwan, there's no planet on which the US wants China expanding and taking over other countries in Asia for political reasons.

The factories in the US ensure that the US keeps sending business to TSMC.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by TheCoelacanth on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @02:24PM (#26638320)
Putting aside for a minute whether TSMC's interests and Taiwan's are the same, does Taiwan really want to be strategic to US security?

It probably comes with some benefits, but I doubt volunteering to be a potential hotspot for WW3 is really worth those benefits.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by gowld on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @04:57PM (#26640375)
Taiwan being caught between US and People's Republic of China is less of a worry than Taiwan's existing concern of being caught between People's Republic of China and Republic of China (aka "Taiwan")
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by twoodfin on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @09:51AM (#26634598)
But it also makes the threat of economic sanctions in response to an invasion more credible, because the US and its allies in such an effort would have alternative sources of critical components.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by monocasa on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @03:35PM (#26639296)
A working, competitive fab isn't just a turnkey operation. There's engineers needed to address the yield issue of the day. Those engineers are based in Taiwan.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by totalZero on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @11:37AM (#26635863)
Taiwan is less safe when the US depends upon Taiwanese production and lacks alternatives, because China uses it as a pressure point and a vulnerable US is a reactive US.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by dmos62 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:53AM (#26633981)
This got me wondering as well. Maybe it's a quid pro quo type of arrangement.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by tallanvor on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @06:36AM (#26633011)
There's talk that China might invade Taiwan in the near future (well, invasion or regaining control, depending on which side you're on, of course). How the US and the rest of the world would respond is unclear, but obviously there would be a lot of disruption.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by nindalf on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @07:15AM (#26633240)
Anyone outside the top echelons of the PLA/CCP who claims to predict when the invasion of Taiwan will happen is a soothsayer. That it will happen is a certainty, which means there's always a ready market of people willing to say it'll happen in the near future.

But one thing is certain - it's a question of when, not if. Taking control of Taiwan is too important to the founding myth of the CCP. Every reminder that Taiwan exists is a challenge to their power. Their desire for Taiwan has never wavered in the last 72 years, nor do I think it will ever. Meanwhile Taiwan's main defender (America) has no permanent allies, only permanent interests. Once the semiconductor supply chain is replicated successfully in the US, they might find that they're no longer willing to sacrifice American lives to protect the sovereignty of Taiwan. At some point in the next 10-40 years, Taiwan will be a bargaining chip America will trade away for something else they value more.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by paganel on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @07:48AM (#26633477)
> That it will happen is a certainty,

Not saying that you're wrong, because you seem much more informed and involved on/in this subject than I am, but from half the world away I can say that around 10 years or so ago that "certainty" wasn't that "certain", so to speak, at least not from what I could gather by reading the "local" press (mostly the Financial Times and The Economist).

Do you happen to have any resources available that further comment on that certainty? Again, not because I'm thinking that you're wrong, but because I'm really curious about this subject (there was a similar Taiwan-related post on the front-page of this website a few days ago but it dropped off pretty quickly).

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by nindalf on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:56AM (#26634019)
Since you mentioned the Economist, here's an article from Feb 18th, 2021 - China faces fateful choices, especially involving Taiwan (https://www.economist.com/china/2021/02/20/china-faces-fatef...).

> To many Chinese, the island’s conquest is a sacred national mission

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by paganel on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @09:09AM (#26634135)
Thank you, that is exactly what I was looking about. Certainly a different tone from what I remember reading back then.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by ekianjo on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:51AM (#26633971)
You are looking for sources that will predict the future with accuracy?

Taiwan is definitively on the next because it is way too close in distance to China for its own good.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by paganel on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @09:04AM (#26634093)
> You are looking for sources that will predict the future with accuracy?

No, I was looking for sources that would talk about the "certainty" of invasion by China (in a large enough interval, from let's say tomorrow to 10-20 years into the future), like I said, about 10 years ago that was not the official discourse.

"Predicting the future" would be to ask for a specific date/time interval for that supposed invasion, which I did not ask for because that would have been a reasonably difficult task to predict, I concur.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by onepointsixC on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:06AM (#26634730)
>At some point in the next 10-40 years, Taiwan will be a bargaining chip America will trade away for something else they value more.

The US has a permanent interest in the continued existence of an independent, non CCP aligned Taiwan. The only thing that time and time again frustrated the ambitions of Great Powers has been geography. Taiwan is the cork in the bottle containing the PLAN within the first island chain, without which China can operate freely throughout the Pacific. Just about every projection has China become the world's largest economy. America's only play to maintain dominance is to make sure that the tyranny of geography restrains the Chinese from operating militarily as freely as they would want. Much American blood had been shed in winning the Pacific in the first place. America is willing to shed more blood to keep it that way.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by monocasa on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @01:03PM (#26637191)
The same way the US has a permanent interest in the continued existence of an independent, non Russian Federation aligned Crimea. If Taiwan looses it's economic value (say, chip production becomes a commodity when Moore's law truly ends, and the CCP subsidizes local chip production to kill off TSMC), it may not be worth the nuclear war to the CCP 'no'.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by murphy1312 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:52AM (#26633978)
i don’t think it’s going to happen in any case. it depends on what the USA does. if the position is like in the cold war: "this way and no further" china will probably not risk a nuclear war.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by tallanvor on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @06:06AM (#26645397)
You could very well be correct. I certainly am not an expert in this area nor am I comfortable making any personal predictions about it. I've just heard more chatter about it than I have in the past.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by gowld on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @04:59PM (#26640402)
PRC/CCP cares a lot about "face". "Taking over Taiwan" is much less important than saying they control Taiwan but grant local autonomy.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by monocasa on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @06:13PM (#26641238)
'Face' gets overblown. If all they cared about was face, they wouldn't be stacking the Hong Kong Parliament and taking the geopolitical capital hit for it.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by weswpg on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @09:37AM (#26647103)
The US military doesn't sell weaponry to HK nor does it have a defence treaty like they do with Taiwan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-American_Mutual_Defense...

imposing control on Hong Kong happened because it did not require high-stakes combat with a nuclear peer competitor

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by adventured on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:39AM (#26633878)
I agree it's guaranteed to happen. There is no scenario where China doesn't begin to squeeze Taiwan, and likely sooner rather than later. I expect them to initially pursue a very aggressive Hong Kong style scheme against Taiwan, more so than a full-scale military invasion (which is not the ideal way to take it; that's their last choice among the options). Which year? Who knows, that isn't even important, as nobody can stop what China is inevitably going to do. The West will have no choice but to stand by and watch - maybe with a few gripes, a few trivial sanctions - just as they have with every single thing China has done (Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, South China Sea, Covid, Myanmar, and the comprehensive human rights erasure that has occurred in all of China under Xi).

I'd bet on it happening during Xi's reign, as it's critical to his pursuit of legacy. He's obsessed with writing his own name into China's history, taking Taiwan (and simultaneously defeating the West as he does it) would be a very big stamp on that. It would formally signal China's new empire-like dominion over Asia.

I don't think the US will trade Taiwan as a bargaining chip. By the time the US is willing to trade it, China will fully understand it's not really worth bargaining over any longer. The time to bargain would be now, or in the recent past. If the US Government wanted to get something big for trading Taiwan, during the Trump Administration was the last time to do it (during max tensions), and the trade should have been North Korea being dismantled (as is; meaning the Kim family goes, the nukes go; only China could make that happen) and reunited with South Korea. The US Govt no doubt thinks their bargaining position is stronger than it actually is, and so doesn't think they needed to make such a trade, instead the US will get nothing and Taiwan will end up in China's hands regardless and North Korea will remain a key China pawn.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by Clewza313 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:48AM (#26633945)
I don't see a military takeover of Taiwan anytime soon. As you yourself said, it's a last resort for China, because they know full well that the island will not go down without a fight, much less stay pliant if conquered. It's also much more strategically important for the US and Japan than Xinjiang etc, and an attack still has a non-zero chance of triggering WW3.

I think China is happy to play the long game, since every passing year strengthens their position and weakens Taiwan's. But who knows what will happen with the next CCP succession.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by fennecfoxen on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @09:23AM (#26634294)
> I think China is happy to play the long game, since every passing year strengthens their position and weakens Taiwan's.

Every passing year brings China one step closer to demographic collapse, the inevitable consequence of the One Child policy, and China is well aware of this.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by Clewza313 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @09:40AM (#26634470)
"Collapse" is a bit hyperbolic. It will absolutely cause problems, but over the long term, not overnight.

Japan is several decades ahead of China on the same path, its population has been declining since 2011, and they have not imploded yet.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by jcranmer on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @09:50AM (#26634592)
Imploded, no, but the Japanese economy basically peaked in 1991 and has yet to really recover (the so-called Lost Decade, although it's been well more than a decade now). As I understand it (this is before my time), in the 1980s, there was a widespread consensus that Japan was on the precipice of upstaging the US, much as there is a similar consensus nowadays that China is on the precipice of upstaging the US. That Japan failed to do so should augur difficulty for China to do the same.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by AYBABTME on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @11:14AM (#26635559)
What makes Japan be a good predictor of China's faith?
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by scottLobster on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:05AM (#26634722)
Yeah, and among the problems it will cause is a stagnation of Chinese economic growth and a decrease in young people. Both of which make large-scale military adventures extremely difficult.

CCP requires economic growth for popular support, this is one reason for the Belt and Road Initiative and other dumping policies, gotta keep those factories running at all costs. If growth stagnates or declines and unemployment spikes, things will get bloody.

Also China's demographic dividend will end while it's at a much lower stage of development than Japan in the 80s/90s. And unlike Japan, China's managed to piss off pretty much every major power who might have been inclined to help them.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by ekianjo on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:54AM (#26634006)
> and an attack still has a non-zero chance of triggering WW3.

Very improbable. Nobody cares enough about Taiwan to even officially recognize its existence.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by perardi on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:34AM (#26635049)
Taiwan is currently our 10th largest goods trading partner with $85.5 billion in total (two-way) goods trade during 2019. Goods exports totaled $31.3 billion; goods imports totaled $54.3 billion. The U.S. goods trade deficit with Taiwan was $23.0 billion in 2019.

Taiwan was the United States' 13th largest goods export market in 2019.

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/china/taiwan

If you think the US doesn’t care about a Top 10 trade partner, and in particular the trade partner that houses TSMC, well have I got news for you. Do we care enough to go into a full-on firefight immediately? I don’t know. But we care enough that it would be a massive diplomatic row, and we’d almost certainly have a naval peacocking as a show of force. And nobody wants that right by South Korea, India, and Japan.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by ekianjo on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @11:34PM (#26643233)
> and in particular the trade partner that houses TSMC,

Why do you think the US is working with TSMC to build plants in the US and intel is building more facilities as well? It's fairly obvious nobody has any confidence in the long run that Taiwan will remain independent.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by pbronez on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:08AM (#26634754)
Don't fool yourself. We don't like to thing about great power war because it's so terrible. We think it can't happen to us because it hasn't happened in a generation or two. People have thought this before. They have always been wrong.

I assure you we have not seen the last of war. Ignoring or minimizing the possibility is self-destructive. You must acknowledge the possibility of disaster before you can engage in the active work of averting it.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by ekianjo on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @11:27PM (#26643198)
> I assure you we have not seen the last of war.

Never even said that. Just saying the Taiwan situation is not going to start a massive conflict.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by jcranmer on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @09:28AM (#26634360)
The reason for that is because both Taiwan and China insist that you either recognize Taiwan xor you recognize China, but you cannot recognize both. (This is basically what the One China Policy means).

Additionally, world wars are never triggered intentionally. World War I broke out essentially because the decision makers ignored the wider consequences of +1'ing their opponent's military preparations (one author characterizes it as Europe sleepwalking into war). World War II broke out unexpectedly because Hitler underestimated the spine the Allies had when he requested they add Danzig to his list of silver platters. World War III will likely break out when someone crosses a red line to one party that isn't clearly communicated to another party--and a Chinese attempt to invade Taiwan is one of the likelier options on that list.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by account42 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:27AM (#26634976)
> The reason for that is because both Taiwan and China insist that you either recognize Taiwan xor you recognize China, but you cannot recognize both.

The only reason Taiwan "insists" on that is because of the threat of invasion if they declare independence. Just because a bully tells you to stop hitting yourself while they smack your hand into your face does not mean the bully is not doing the hitting.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by jcranmer on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @11:35AM (#26635840)
Not quite so. Taiwan was ruled by the losers of China's civil war until about the 1990s (the modern party counterpart is the KMT). From their perspective, "One China" is about "we deserve to own all of China" and concomitant refusal to accept their loss in the war. Their opposing party (the DPP) instead advocates Taiwanese independence and refused to support the "One China" policy, but have declined to make any strident moves towards changing policy in power essentially for the reasons you mention.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by blackrock on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:48PM (#26642997)
You’re changing the story to suit your own narrative. The Civil War in China is not over. And it was never settled.

Before this, the bully was the Taiwan government. Then they lost the mainland, and fled to Taiwan, where they got sheltered by the Americans.

And now, you’re saying that the government on the mainland is now the bully over little Taiwan.

But the fact remains, that the last stage of the Chinese Civil War is not over.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by ekianjo on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @11:28PM (#26643205)
> Additionally, world wars are never triggered intentionally

History is useless since none of the previous world wars had nuclear powers at play. You can't compare before and after. Like, not at all.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by randomopining on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:40AM (#26633889)
The CCP never controlled Taiwan (aka the island of Formosa). Thus let's call a spade a spade. They want to finish the civil war and defeat the opposing side (while gaining control of a physical barrier to their mainland) and probably kill millions of Taiwanese, US/Japanese troops, and their own in the process.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by jasonwatkinspdx on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:58AM (#26635359)
So we can rule out an attack in the immediate future, and in fact we'll see the buildup for an attack with lots of advance warning. There's just no way to move around 100k plus troops and their equipment without it being observed.

China currently lacks sufficient amphibious assault ships to actually move enough troops to take control of the island. They certainly can bomb the crap out of it, but they won't have the resources necessary for boots on the ground for some time still.

They're building ships fast, but it's still something like a 15 year horizon before they'll have sufficient material, perhaps longer. At the least we can expect them to wait until the 2 carriers they're constructing are done.

Most credible analysts I've read believe a serious attempt at invading the island won't come until Xi's successor. Rick Joe is good to read on this topic. He writes for the major media outlets, as well as posting as PLARealtalk on reddit.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by Shivetya on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:22AM (#26634915)
Pretty sure China isn't just worrying manufacturers in Taiwan but other parts of the region. Hong Kong is getting worse by the day with China basically replacing any idea of a democratic government there.

India is making strides but has internal issues and both China and Pakistan as border issues. South Korea has been under threat from the North for far too long.

It just makes financial sense to spread out to more stable regions of the world and to take the money offered when it shows up.

I figure we are still a decade or two out before Africa comes online and South and Central America will need to calm down to get good investment to spread about.

I am surprised Canada is not trying to get more of the action.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by herodoturtle on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @06:18AM (#26632935)
This was a really insightful comment, thanks for taking the time to explain.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by ksec on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @06:24AM (#26632958)
Now that Intel has opened up their Fab, I have been wondering if TSMC will still be going ahead with their Plan. It never made any sense in the first place. It is not leading edge and Intel seems to be a better position from DoD's perspective.

And I wil not be suspired if future POWER and Z are all Intel Fabbed.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by onepointsixC on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:08AM (#26634757)
How can they not? 60% of their customers are American and fab capacity has become a hot bipartisan topic as well as a NatSec issue. The only way they can guarantee that they don't lose access to their customers is by building American fabs.
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by ksec on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @10:42AM (#26635155)
1. Fab Capacity has nothing to do with it. No one has committed to Fab Orders apart from Apple. It is politics and MSM Media decide to make an issue out of nothing.

2. Those Fabs are not leading edge and not target for the general consumer brands. The current target of 5nm in ~2024, a time when TSMC should be on 2nm GAAFET in their main Fab in Taiwan.

3. The only real reason is National Security, which is now being handled by Intel. These chip were used used and Fabbed by IBM and GF before GF's exit on leading edge.

4. 60% of TSMC's customers are US companies, but these US companies 's customer aren't 60% Americans. And not all Americans chips needs to be Fabbed locally.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by monocasa on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @03:40PM (#26639366)
> which is now being handled by Intel.

I don't think the DoD is willing to put all of it's eggs in that one basket that hasn't been performing lately. Particularly when the DoD sees massive amounts of edge inference being a key weapons component going forward and they need newer nodes than 14nm+++++++.

Hard to blame them.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by ksec on Wednesday March 31, 2021 @12:37AM (#26643565)
AFAIK DoD has always had contract with Intel, IBM, GF for certain things Fab within US. And they rarely ( If ever ) use anything that is leading edge anyway. Their requirement are critically different to mainstream consumer usage where reliability of node is paramount. Samsung is also building a Fab in Austin which has an upgrade path from IBM ( now GF ) node. I dont see what TSMC has to offer in both National Security and Fab Production Business prospective.

That is of course, as you said unless both Intel and Samsung seriously messed up their plan.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by rasz on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:40AM (#26633885)
> TSMC builds a fab on US soil, and Taiwan and it's sovereignty wrt to China is

fucked, because we already have a foundry on US soil suckers. The whole point of TSMC being an ace card towards guaranteeing US defense coverage goes away the second you give it up. Ukraine is a perfect real life example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit...

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by konschubert on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @07:59AM (#26633579)
But isn't it risky for Taiwan when the US has a semiconductor supply chain on its own soil?
Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by volkl48 on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:48AM (#26633948)
The US looks like it's inclined to going to throw money at someone to build up that capacity if necessary.

It's certainly less risky for Taiwan for TSMC to be the one building and running the most high profile element of it than if it was someone else.

Re:Intel to spend $20B on two new chip factories in Arizona by kube-system on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @08:55AM (#26634013)
If Taiwan is less important strategically, they are more at risk. But it isn’t TSMCs job to play geopolitics, they just sell chips. One factory doesn’t make a global semiconductor market, though.