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Re:I Miss My Bar by forgotmypw17 on Friday February 19, 2021 @01:12AM (#26190279)
It's a great opportunity for non-commercial spontaneity, choosing not between "what bar to go to", but which direction to walk in, and really taking in reality.
Re:I Miss My Bar by LandR on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:20AM (#26191466)
In my country, the UK, you can be fined for going a walk to a park if it isn't the closest park to your home. Basically if the police want to be arses to you they can ask you where you are going and why you are where you are, if they dont like your answer you can be fined.

There was an article in the BBC a while back about two friends that met up for a walk in the country side, they drove to the meetup point. It wasn't the closest place they could have walked so they got fined.

Also IIRC, they were carrying a cup of coffee each so the police said technically they met for a picnic.

Re:I Miss My Bar by richrichardsson on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:37AM (#26191589)
After the furore surrounding that everything was overturned and they apologised [1].

> if the police want to be arses

This is what's completely wrong about the situation.

Police officer had an argument with their spouse that morning and is in a shitty mood? Police officer was bullied at school and is using their power to punish the kind of person that looks like their bullies? Any number of entirely random things can change the "rules". Not good.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55625062

Re:I Miss My Bar by Nursie on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:59AM (#26191754)
> Also IIRC, they were carrying a cup of coffee each so the police said technically they met for a picnic.

It's both sad and hilarious that going for a picnic is currently a criminal act.

Re:I Miss My Bar by DoingIsLearning on Friday February 19, 2021 @07:39AM (#26192476)
What I think is under discussed is the fact that we allow for all of these social restrictions measurements but yet air travel across all the EU countries is still allowed.
Re:I Miss My Bar by Mediterraneo10 on Saturday February 20, 2021 @12:03PM (#26205703)
Air travel might be allowed in that flights happen, but the second travelers land they are immediately sent into quarantine in some countries. Poland, for instance, requires 10-day quarantine for anyone flying into the country, even from other EU states. That quarantine is checked by requiring you to install a mandatory phone app and also by sending the police around to your address.

Also, because some EU countries are claiming that crossing their borders is only allowed for essential reasons proven by documentation, the airport in the country of origin will prevent many people from even being able to board the plane in the first place.

Re:I Miss My Bar by karlerss on Friday February 19, 2021 @11:31AM (#26194810)
Air travel worldwide is just fine. In airport transit zones all you need is a mask.

We flew from Northern Europe to South Asia a week ago and the flights were filled 60-70%.

Re:I Miss My Bar by DoingIsLearning on Friday February 19, 2021 @01:52PM (#26196505)
Absolutely false. I am not saying airports are a source of infection. What I am pointing out is that air travel is allowing for all these variants to propagate to new populations.

The pervasiveness of the UK variant in Europe would have been contained or at least decelerated with travel restrictions.

A living proof of this is both New Zealand and Australia. These countries still allowed for sea and air freight but banned travel. Both countries are roughly back to normal life, while we in Europe are still trying to blame pharmaceutical manufacturing vaccine output, as if that is the sole cause of our problems.

Re:I Miss My Bar by renewiltord on Friday February 19, 2021 @02:12AM (#26190535)
Yeah but you can't meet strangers. We're all bubbled in. And I love my friends, they're my pillar of peace in this pandemic, but there is a different part of me that craves the interaction with strangers in strange places.
Re:I Miss My Bar by taurath on Friday February 19, 2021 @04:34AM (#26191212)
Nothing has changed in the Pacific Northwest - people won’t talk to you Covid or not
Re:I Miss My Bar by forgotmypw17 on Friday February 19, 2021 @03:46AM (#26190951)
It's a great opportunity to connect with non-humans: mushrooms, plants, insects, birds, mammals.

When is the last time you have even looked at one of them closely, let alone formed a close relationship?

It is something we humans have done our entire existence, until recently, yet many today go their entire life without such an experience.

Re:I Miss My Bar by slaymaker1907 on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:59AM (#26191757)
I know you're trying to be helpful, but these kinds of posts just come off as incredibly condescending and out of touch. Lack of nature is not considered to be actual torture, but complete isolation from other people (solitary confinement) is.
Re:I Miss My Bar by forgotmypw17 on Friday February 19, 2021 @07:31AM (#26192426)
I apologize if that came off as condescending. That is exactly what I mean, however, you are writing off non-human companionship and interaction as worthless, when it can bring endless joy and comfort when humans are not available.
Re:I Miss My Bar by throwanem on Friday February 19, 2021 @08:09AM (#26192720)
It's not the same, in a way that matters.

I grew up outside a small rural town, running barefoot all over creation every chance I got, and most of the time by myself. These days I'm a wildlife photographer by avocation, and over the last couple of years I've gotten deeply into macro - I take pictures of wasps while they're doing wasp things, and as a result of that, I'm not only no longer afraid of them, I've kind of fallen in love with them. They are at this point by far my favorite insects, and high up among my favorite animals overall. I like them better than most mammals at this point, and some of the best pictures I've ever taken of a spider wasp, I got in my backyard last October. Aside from that, research papers on wasp ethology have been a gateway into entomology as a special interest, to an extent where if I had it to do over I might go into that instead of software engineering. I've even learned to make and bind books from scratch, initially because I wanted paper textbooks instead of PDFs.

All of that means a great deal to me. None of it makes up for the fact that, over the course of the last year, I've only been able to spend a few hours in the company of a friend, and none in that of colleagues. I'm somewhat solitary by inclination, and I think that makes it less hard on me than on most. But even for me, it's been hard. I can't imagine what it's been like for anyone who came into this both alone and without the good fortune of knowing how to be satisfied with their own company. These aren't good circumstances under which to have to learn that, and even the most cursory glance at the comments in this thread overall is enough to show that the success rate has probably not been high.

Yes, every so often you get someone like me, who can feel good for days about the pompilid wasp who turned up in his home office for an impromptu visit. Every so often you get a Birdman of Alcatraz, too. To suggest that everyone should just instantly be a Birdman - I mean, I get that you're trying to help, and I respect that. But you seem not to have given any thought to how to make your advice potentially useful to someone whose perspective differs greatly from your own.

It's an easy mistake to make - I do it often enough myself. But it's still a mistake, and it's why the criticism you're getting is warranted. The intention is obviously good, but the execution needs a deal of improvement.

Re:I Miss My Bar by forgotmypw17 on Friday February 19, 2021 @08:15AM (#26192786)
I see what we're saying, and you're right that it is a huge negative impact.

Perhaps, then, it is worth re-evaluating how much we allow our lives to be controlled by threats and mass media messages.

Re:I Miss My Bar by renewiltord on Friday February 19, 2021 @12:28PM (#26195461)
I've formed close relationships with mammals all my life. In fact, that's where all my close relationships are.
Re:I Miss My Bar by 74d-fe6-2c6 on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:18AM (#26191453)
Legally, though, in solitude. In Germany only one person can officially visit another household. I think that is excessive bullshit which is why I do break this rule occasionally.
Re:I Miss My Bar by jeofken on Friday February 19, 2021 @07:49AM (#26192565)
Good! The relationship between you and the Bundesrepublik is a non-voluntary one, where you never signed a contract with them to follow their laws. It’s a state created by the victors of the last great war. There is no moral responsibility to please people who are in your life involuntarily
Re:I Miss My Bar by 74d-fe6-2c6 on Friday February 19, 2021 @09:36AM (#26193573)
With your attitude you have to be willing to not use tax-funded hospitals, community-financed health insurance or state-sponsored cultural events. Not sure if I'd like to take that step. There has to be a healthy balance in the relationship between society and citizen.
Re:I Miss My Bar by jeofken on Friday February 19, 2021 @01:16PM (#26196070)
The same argument applies to a slave being fed and housed by their master.

I think it’s very healthy to avoid some government funded “services”, such as having children far away from government schools. If you are not paying, you are the product.

Re:I Miss My Bar by mellavora on Monday February 22, 2021 @04:25AM (#26222431)
Did you ever read Leviathan (Hobbes)?
Re:I Miss My Bar by jeofken on Monday February 22, 2021 @06:28PM (#26232052)
I’m familiar with it as being ethically relativist (no universal eternal ethics) and arguing that man needs to be ruled to live in peace.

Would you recommend spending a couple of weeks on it? If so, are there translations to modern English, or is the original easy to understand for us in this century?

Re:I Miss My Bar by _uwiz on Friday February 19, 2021 @01:53AM (#26190448)
This is illegal in my country.
Re:I Miss My Bar by tomcooks on Friday February 19, 2021 @02:44AM (#26190643)
Which country more or less is it? When the hot season will arrive will you be able to go out and make an impromptu bar with friends somewhere free (public squares, forests, beaches, etc.)
Re:I Miss My Bar by _uwiz on Friday February 19, 2021 @03:01AM (#26190713)
UK.

I don't know, indefinite lockdown.

It's currently illegal to sit on a park bench.

I'll do it anyway, of course, but it might not be legal.

[redacted] 97 days since it was last legal for me to have a friend over for a cup of tea.

You know in the movies where at some point the psychotic main character thinks "I'm not the crazy one, it must be them"? I flip flop on this every other hour.

Re:I Miss My Bar by dTal on Friday February 19, 2021 @03:27PM (#26197648)
I think we should be clear. The lockdown, in more or less its current state, is necessary. Without it we will see a spiralling death toll, the collapse of health services, and many people saddled with chronic conditions for life, yes even the "young". I personally know some. Their lifestyles will never be the same.

However, it didn't have to be this way. The UK practically beat the pandemic over summer, and then snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by persistently ignoring reality. Reopening schools, Eat Out To Help Out, failing to stop international travel - these are the things that led to the current situation.

Get mad, by all means. But place the blame where it belongs. We are doing the right thing now, in order to deal with the idiocy of before.

Re:I Miss My Bar by _uwiz on Friday February 19, 2021 @04:57PM (#26198550)
Unfortunately, 300 days in, I am neither mentally capable of adhering to restrictions, nor do I have the trust any more to follow through if I did.

For me, it's the risk of death and/or a chronic condition, or the certainty of psychosis.

Hourly reminder that it's been almost 100 days since it was last legal for me to have a friend over for a cup of tea.

Best of luck, glad you're holding up well; sorry that I've failed you.

Re:I Miss My Bar by tomcooks on Saturday February 20, 2021 @03:09AM (#26202506)
That sucks, had no idea you couldn't spend time outside over there. I can understand the ban on having friends over, but not allowing people to spend time outside is a recipe for disaster.

UK having what seems to be the most potent variant of the virus doesn't help, and the island factor either. Try to be strong, and don't let cabin fever tell you otherwise.

Re:I Miss My Bar by oarsinsync on Friday February 19, 2021 @03:00AM (#26190711)
Predicting the future is difficult. After the overall incompetence of leadership that 2020 brought in many western countries, making any rational predictions about 2021 is irrational in itself.

Based on their website, GP is likely in the UK. There’s vague hope based on vaccination rates, but given the number of self-inflicted own-goals by this government, anything more than vague hope now feels like setting oneself up for disappointment.

Re:I Miss My Bar by _uwiz on Friday February 19, 2021 @03:04AM (#26190722)
Vaccination has literally fuck all to do with this. Our restrictions are randomly generated.

It's illegal for me to have a friend over because they made it illegal.

We have adverts trying to scare people into working from home, as if that's a choice.

The government is literally trolling us, just showing us that we'll do whatever as long as there's propaganda backing it.

Fuck this reality.

Re:I Miss My Bar by tinus_hn on Friday February 19, 2021 @04:28AM (#26191181)
Same in the Netherlands and any restriction introduced for whatever reason is forever. For instance, when bars had to close at 22:00, people would flood the supermarkets to get booze for drinking at home. So they made a rule that supermarkets can’t sell alcohol after 20:00.

Now the bars have been closed for 3 months. Think anyone would remove that now useless limitation on selling alcohol after 20:00? Think again!

Re:I Miss My Bar by _uwiz on Friday February 19, 2021 @04:33AM (#26191200)
UK Government 2020:

It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes.

makes pubs shit to be in with distancing rules and masks etc

people start to socialise at home more

It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes.

closes pubs earlier

people start to socialise at home more

It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes.

close everything else, make meeting up outside illegal

people start to socialise at home more

It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes.

I literally cannot come up with an explanation for this that isn't conspiratorial. For all of Boris' fluff, I don't believe that our Government is this incompetent or stupid - there has to be an ulterior motive here.

Re:I Miss My Bar by Nursie on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:19AM (#26191455)
Socialising inside a home was restricted pretty early. Those socialising at home are breaking the law, it's just not something that can be enforced very easily.

Our government demonstrably is this incompetent. Not just on coronavirus.

Re:I Miss My Bar by tinus_hn on Friday February 19, 2021 @04:36AM (#26191225)
Yeah it’s like ‘30% of infections are happening in bars’ so let’s close the bars. Well now ’30% of infections are happening in gyms’ so let’s close these.

Wow now that everything is closed, 60% of infections are happening at home! Let’s restrict that!

Its just dumb.

Re:I Miss My Bar by dTal on Friday February 19, 2021 @03:30PM (#26197677)
Are you implying that the total number of infections is held constant somehow, and restrictions merely move them around? Because that's false. Restrictions work.
Re:I Miss My Bar by tinus_hn on Friday February 19, 2021 @06:44PM (#26199589)
Statistics show a different reality but even then, if everything outside the house is closed it stands to reason that the percentage of infections inside the house would grow by a lot. Simply because there are no others. And it turns out to be pretty tempting, once infections start rising again (despite the restrictions) to use these percentages to impose even more draconian restrictions.
Re:I Miss My Bar by michaelt on Friday February 19, 2021 @12:58PM (#26195845)
> It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes.

It comes as no surprise to me that, if one person in a household gets infected, everyone else would too.

What's the government supposed to do about that? Social distancing on the sofa?

Re:I Miss My Bar by tinus_hn on Friday February 19, 2021 @06:52PM (#26199641)
If you think outside the box there’s plenty of things to do:

* quarantine the infected person outside the home * develop protocols to avoid infection of the others * use medication that blocks people from getting infected * use measures to block infecting the others

It is kind of strange that in this situation somehow the government is justified in taking no action. While in others apparently they are obligated to act.

Re:I Miss My Bar by _uwiz on Friday February 19, 2021 @06:25PM (#26199437)
They should probably ban milk.
Re:I Miss My Bar by oarsinsync on Friday February 19, 2021 @06:21AM (#26191909)
> I literally cannot come up with an explanation for this that isn't conspiratorial. For all of Boris' fluff, I don't believe that our Government is this incompetent or stupid - there has to be an ulterior motive here.

I do believe the PM is this incompetent and stupid. He's demonstrated a total lack of belief in anything, and is utterly spineless.

(Un)fortunately, the same cannot be said for some of his staff. There's a certain special advisor who drove to a castle (and got a raise) who has an interesting history when it comes to his views on eugenics.

Re:I Miss My Bar by Sorrop on Friday February 19, 2021 @03:21AM (#26190815)
I live in Greece and what you describe is very much applicable here too.

Especially the part about government trolling us.

Fuck this reality.

Re:I Miss My Bar by ersii on Friday February 19, 2021 @04:42AM (#26191269)
Come over to Sweden, things are quite dandy here.

Never thought I'd say that in a positive manner though.

Wish you the better and best.

Re:I Miss My Bar by jjgreen on Friday February 19, 2021 @05:40AM (#26191612)
A lot of us wish we could; but in the UK it is illegal to leave the house for anything but food-shopping, a medical appointment or (limited) exercise. I don't think "escaping a police state" falls under any of those.
Re:I Miss My Bar by leesalminen on Friday February 19, 2021 @08:20AM (#26192825)
Wait are you seriously saying that you can’t leave the country?!?
Re:I Miss My Bar by jjgreen on Friday February 19, 2021 @08:56AM (#26193148)
Yes, there are exceptions (vaguely stated, a funeral or what the police would regard as essential), but a holiday would be illegal.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice

Re:I Miss My Bar by leesalminen on Friday February 19, 2021 @09:12AM (#26193322)
Wow, I’m sorry to hear that. Sounds tyrannical to me.
Re:I Miss My Bar by tomcooks on Saturday February 20, 2021 @03:15AM (#26202528)
Afaik most European countries have a travel ban unless it's for work.

Minimizing contact and travel, together with masks and sanitation,is proven to work and currently the only solution- unless hey you have a non tyrannical alternative then please let me know

Re:I Miss My Bar by Mediterraneo10 on Saturday February 20, 2021 @12:09PM (#26205769)
Few European countries prevent people from leaving the country for leisure or family visits. I myself have managed to travel a bit this winter.

In some places, ruling parties have complained that they simply couldn’t prevent people from leaving even if they wanted to, because freely leaving and re-entering is enshrined in the country’s constitution. The UK, Australian, and New Zealand prevention on even leaving the country is much harsher than in most other developed countries.

"Minimizing contact and travel" is not the only solution, just perhaps the only solution you personally find palatable. Keeping borders open and simply accepting deaths works for me. Deaths are bad, but a new wave of nationalism and wall-building is worse.

Re:I Miss My Bar by eybbus on Friday February 19, 2021 @10:20AM (#26194075)
isn't Sweden proposing to shut down businesses, limiting time spent at some places and adding new rules regarding gatherings and public event?

Thats at least I gather from a Norwegian news site, but my Norwegian is not up to snuff.

Re:I Miss My Bar by forgotmypw17 on Friday February 19, 2021 @02:15AM (#26190543)
My condolences on your loss of freedom.

May you find a way to move about freely in the near future.

Re:I Miss My Bar by brailsafe on Friday February 19, 2021 @06:16AM (#26191863)
It is, but then when your paranoid friends only want to walk around it gets old quick, and isn't ideal on shitty days. Even a coffee inside or shooting some pool would be fine.
Re:I Miss My Bar by tomcooks on Friday February 19, 2021 @02:42AM (#26190638)
Exactly. Just like with open source software, if you don't like something make your own instead of creating cargo cult around the ashes of a mediocre past.