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Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by coldtea on Monday December 07, 2020 @11:36AM (#25333742)
>threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

There was no inherent "supremacy", just one created by a bunch of companies being together.

Did SV municipalities do anything else to deserve it?

There are better places, with more rental space, more resources, better weather, and so on, plus WFH is here to stay...

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by qppo on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:01PM (#25334017)
Not municipalities but the state's labor laws are highly conducive to the tech culture and don't exist most places in the country. There's not much money for the startup crop that feeds big tech outside the Bay Area. It's all on Sand Hill Road.

I can only speak for myself but I'll never live in a red state again. Not even Texas, it's not worth it. Even where I grew up (the purple midwest) is too socially conservative for me after living in California.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by gedy on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:08PM (#25334117)
Unless you are a political junky reading news all day - what practically speaking is so intolerable about living there or your neighbors?
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by renewiltord on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:41PM (#25334575)
It's hard to describe to people who are both White and American. That's not because they're inherently incapable of understanding. It's just a problem you don't face as much so you don't understand it.

It's like how for most of my life I barely understood the mitigating measures women take in many situations where I don't even notice the situation.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by gamblor956 on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:52PM (#25335617)
I'm sure that Midwesterners are super polite to other white people, but it was definitely not my experience there as a minority.

I was born in the US but my ethnicity is visually ambiguous and people assume I'm Mexican, Filipino, or Indian (in that order) based on the type of brown person they grew up with. In CA, no one particularly cares what type of brown person I am. But when I lived in Ohio, I was told that I should "go back home where [I] came from", that I'm one of the good ones and should bring more of my family over, or that I'm "stealing jobs from honest Americans," based on whether the redneck in question thought I was Mexican, Filipino, or Indian. My cousin and his wife, in Indiana, used to experience the same harassment regularly until they started wearing their scrubs everywhere so people would know that they're doctors.

I turned down a very well-paying job in Ohio (and came back to CA) because the people there were so vile.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by coldtea on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:51PM (#25335604)
>It's hard to describe to people who are both White and American

Many immigrants are even more religious and/or convervative than "White and American".

Just of a different culture.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by renewiltord on Monday December 07, 2020 @03:21PM (#25336894)
Sure, I'm certain it's hard to explain to other groups as well. "White and American" wasn't meant to be exhaustive.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by gedy on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:44PM (#25334623)
East Asian family in different parts of Texas are California expats and love it.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by renewiltord on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:48PM (#25334686)
Yeah, it's not a universal thing¹ but the short version is that one of my friends was told how he was "one of the good guys" and not the kind of immigrant they hate.

And another was in sales in industrial manufacturing and there was a lot of misogyny and low-grade racism there.

They're in WA now so and much happier.

¹ the "isn't happening to me" thing is sort of analogous to "works on my machine". Because of the range of stuff, things usually do "work on my machine".

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by nitrogen on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:06PM (#25334946)
The immigration issue is more complex than that. I met a guy a long time ago who immigrated illegally, but eventually decided to go legit. He built a fortune in the shipping pallet business, and complained loudly about unfair competition from illegal immigration because those companies could pay sub-living wages and skip out on safety and workers' comp insurance.

It's fine to prefer living in one culture over another, which is exactly what both your friend and the people they complained about are doing.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by renewiltord on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:21PM (#25335181)
Certainly. I did not mean to imply a global ordering of places to live. I interpreted the original question "what practically speaking is so intolerable about living there or your neighbors?" as "what ... is so intolerable [for someone who doesn't wish to live there] ...". It is perfectly reasonable that you find it enjoyable to live there and I find it intolerable. I interpreted the question as "why do you find it intolerable" not "why should I find it intolerable" since the latter is harder to answer - I don't know your desire vector and/or moral foundations.

And to be clear, I did not mean illegal immigration. I meant legal immigration.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by strifey on Monday December 07, 2020 @02:29PM (#25336068)
I grew up in a deeply conservative part of the country. The amount of casual bigotry that permeates even the most mundane social exchanges now shocks me whenever I visit my family. I can't imagine what it's like to be a minority there. Even being a white man who people treat kindly is uncomfortable enough.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by matz1 on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:54PM (#25334785)
For me its the stance for Lockdown/restriction - seems to me blue state is more eager to lockdown.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by 1996 on Monday December 07, 2020 @03:17PM (#25336821)
Freedom of movement and assembly is a priceless advantage
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by qppo on Monday December 07, 2020 @02:02PM (#25335758)
Well right now it's personal safety as another comment mentioned. Long term it's because I don't want my kids to grow up around the same people I did.

Intolerable is an ironic word because my personal choices cut right to the paradox of tolerance.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by cossatot on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:30PM (#25335326)
I grew up in a small town in the Ozarks and there was a huge amount of fundamentalist Christian propaganda and social conditioning going on in the public school system. The high school principal passed out bibles, prayer was held before many sports practices or events, recruiters/councilors for Christian youth groups sat with the students at the cafeteria at lunch, etc. Some of the science teachers taught science well, though others made it explicit that they were Creationists and were only teaching evolution/Earth science because they had to, and that the students could stick around after class to hear 'what really happened'.

This was on top of another layer of class conflict between the middle class teachers/administration and lower class/trailer park kids, who mostly dropped out at 16 which was fine with the admin. Lots of additional pressure on other students who didn't conform for various race/gender/etc. reasons. And then completely bizarre stuff like, though the official reason for not having a soccer team was that it would detract from the sacrosanct football program, many of the teachers were clear that believed soccer to be a Communist sport (this was in the 90s when the cold war was long over).

Many of the perpetrators here are very nice people and fine neighbors, but if you aren't an evangelical Christian it can be a challenge. Especially if you're not white: the KKK is still a well known presence just down the road in Harrison, AR, so it's not just woke fearmongering.

It's one thing to live in these environments as an adult and be able to blow a lot of it off, but it's another thing completely to have kids there, which really detracts from the 'leave California to raise kids' motivation.

And it would be better at a larger city like St. Louis or Indianapolis but some fraction of the population of those places are from towns like mine and don't find these beliefs and practices to be particularly problematic.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by throwaway894345 on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:45PM (#25335504)
I don't think most places are like this, but moreover, what is the critical difference between the anti-science fundamentalist Christian indoctrination and a anti-science fundamentalist political indoctrination one finds in Silicon Valley? Is it just which one a given individual finds more palatable (subjective) or is one objectively better than the other (and if so, why?)? And in either case, why pick one fringe or the other when there are so many places across the country that are more ideologically diverse and tolerant?
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by AndrewUnmuted on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:19PM (#25334262)
With the social changes going on throughout 2020 and beyond, you may want to prepare for SF to go more conservative as the years go on.

Things have a way of flipping during times of significance. California's entertainment industry was formed by a bunch of young, driven people who wanted to escape paying IP royalties to the Edison company. Now, they're doing everything in their legal power to pursue their own IP infringement cases, taking on the form and function of their reason for leaving NY in the first place.

That NIMBY thing has been boiling over for decades now. There will be new stakeholders in that battle attaching themselves to conservative and far-right movements. Get ready!

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by throwaway894345 on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:37PM (#25335408)
Is "the [SV] tech culture" the secret sauce (especially noting that the culture has changed a lot in the intervening 10-20 years)? Could tech companies thrive with a different, more ideologically diverse talent pool?
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by solumos on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:15PM (#25334201)
I'd say the jury's still out on WFH. Once more companies put their cost-of-living adjustments in place, I think a lot of employees will change their minds. Additionally, I think many companies won't go "fully remote" - a lot of them will move to a "hybrid" model (e.g. 3 days in-office per week).
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by inerte on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:01PM (#25334878)
Something I realized is that I am not seeing Managers, Directors, and VPs moving.

Could be age / career related - VPs of big companies are usually experienced professionals, so they have strong(er) roots in the Bay Area, with kids in school.

But the number of management moving out is ZERO - at least anecdotally. Once we're allowed to go back to the office and they all go, how long until tech leads and architects also follow? Then "interns and junior employees should be at the office so it's easier to mentor", and then remote becomes something mid-level and seniors-who-plateaued or a CLM position. Which is fine, if you know the tradeoffs...

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by someguydave on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:22PM (#25335204)
Such high ranking people whose employment proposition rests on their people skills have the most to lose with any kind of managerial innovation.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by pbuzbee on Monday December 07, 2020 @03:31PM (#25337034)
I've noticed this as well. If upper management isn't interested in working remote, it's going to be a struggle for ICs to get large companies to embrace it long-term. I see the acceptance of remote work by large companies as something that's going to decay post-COVID until we're back to where we were before.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by ghaff on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:26PM (#25334355)
I think even if you stipulate for purposes of discussion that a lot of companies in the tech space broadly and elsewhere are going to be more flexible in the future, that still leaves WFH/Remote to cover a lot of territory:

- WFH or in-office 2-3 days per week

- Office every Wednesday

- Team get-together once a month

- Remote in the same/adjacent time zone

- Remote anywhere you want that we can legally hire you (seems unlikely)

- Remote pay-adjusted (or not)

- Whether there is an office or not

In general, I expect the extreme cases will be fairly rare but pretty much every one of the scenarios (as well as whether they're mandatory or optional) will drive different decisions relative to 5-days a week in the office.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by chrismckleroy on Monday December 07, 2020 @11:52AM (#25333916)
“Better weather” I can’t help but laugh. One of five Mediterranean climates worldwide, built on apricot orchards, formerly home to one of the most diverse animal and again ecosystems before the arrival of whites. It’s really hard to beat the weather in Silicon Valley. It’s almost non seasonal, anything grows. The diversity currently of this area is very high, it’s the home of top universities, between the two cross pollination of ideas happens non stop. As a “tech person” who lived in 10 years, and just moved away in March, well, it’s nice to move away, but damn, miss the weather.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by briga on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:03PM (#25334051)
I think California has created this myth that constant sunshine = perfect weather. I personally like things like summer thunderstorms, snowy winters, mild cloudy days, and rain. It's definitely not bad weather, but the lack of variety and endless dry smoggy summer months can get pretty old.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by fumar on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:11PM (#25334152)
The myth is from people that moved to California from other states. I moved from the the midwest to Southern California. I can't see myself going back to harsh winters and extreme summers. My overall well being has increased and the sunny days helpf with consistent mood levels. This is coming from someone who loved the four seasons and claimed they were required. I realized that humans populate most climates in the world and there isn't one size fits all.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by jjeaff on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:25PM (#25334339)
Same here. I like the "idea" of four seasons. But after living in socal, I discovered I really only need a few days a year of the cold wintery weather. And then I'm over it. I get that from travel. Not to mention how summers are so much hotter in the Midwest and south.

Mid 70s and sunny is hard to beat. It's like an eternal spring.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by gimmeThaBeet on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:50PM (#25334706)
Yeah, definitely agree there, my enjoyment of winter lasts all of about a few weeks. There's no perfect climate, and if you do winter sports or something more power to you, but after the beautiful snow, when you have to deal with slush and road salt, I could do with skipping from like, Jan 1 to Apr 1.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by ska on Monday December 07, 2020 @02:57PM (#25336480)
I think that's a personal thing; I found eternal spring pretty boring. It's not objectionable, certainly. It's just kinda meh. Don't get me wrong, you can get far far worse but I'd rather have seasons.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by beamatronic on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:02PM (#25334890)
There is a place where you can have seasons, yet they are mild. And there is a reasonable cost of living, if you so choose. And it has public transportation, which is not ideal but better that many other US cities. And it has a huge number of software jobs, an educated populace, and culture. Washington, DC
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by Apocryphon on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:10PM (#25335002)
Isn't D.C. really humid? It was built on a swamp, after all.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by beamatronic on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:17PM (#25335128)
Yes, that's the one thing you can't minimize or bargain away.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by burntoutfire on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:35PM (#25335388)
You can very much have four seasons without harsh winters and extreme summers though - you can just have regular winters and lovely summers.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by pianoben on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:27PM (#25334374)
What surprised me the most about SV's weather is how it affected my perception of time. Without the slow rhythm of the changing seasons, ten years passed in an uncertain blur. I find it very hard to place memories in any given time.

Maybe that's just an effect of getting older. I just moved away to a place with four seasons again, so we'll see!

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by nomeddie on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:26PM (#25334364)
Snowy winters is a nice idea when you can sip a warm drink cozied up inside and play winter sports.

When you have to shovel the drive way twice a day and five minutes later the city snow plow throws half frozen slush on your drive way, you start to crave a warmer climate.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by bigbubba on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:08PM (#25334975)
If you're shoveling twice a day, you should consider doing as they do in Alaska and simply stop shoveling it. Drive on the snow if it's snowing so much that you have to shovel twice a day.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by mattnewton on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:26PM (#25334356)
I thought I wanted four seasons when I first moved here, but after a few years I found a short trip to Tahoe quenched my entire desire for winter in a week or less, and I was glad to come back to no snow to shovel. I can't imagine going back to the northeast, and I would melt in the south.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by nilkn on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:09PM (#25334124)
I definitely agree with you. I don’t like the Bay Area’s weather and much prefer that of the Midwest and Northeast where you fully experience all four seasons. I like hot summers and winters full of snow. Even within CA I’d prefer the weather of LA over that of the Bay Area. SF in particular had very depressing and disappointing weather for me — uniformly chilly and overcast most of the time.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by hangonhn on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:31PM (#25334439)
I guess that may depend a lot on where you started from. I've lived in Hong Kong and then grew up in Florida, went to school in New England, and then lived in Texas for a while before moving to the Bay Area. The Bay Area weather is insanely good by comparison. The general trends are so stable and predictable. It's nice temperate and dry most of the year. I used to be a pretty avid runner. I went to visit my buddy in Houston and we went running. I had to stop after 3 miles (I normally run 5 to 10 miles in the morning) because it was so hot and humid. It made me really respect people who exercise in areas where the weather isn't so amendable to outdoor activities.

(Updated: I just read all the sibling comments. We are nearly all from other states and have now all become huge weather weaklings from living in CA!)

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by chaostheory on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:41PM (#25334579)
It's a not a myth if you're in the SF Bay Area. Other parts of CA are terrible. As you've pointed out it's both smoggy and hot. Coming from FL where there are only two seasons, I call Bay Area's weather "air conditioning" weather. It feels like you're in a really nice climate controlled building, but outside with sun. That said, it's not going to last with climate change. Air quality is already taking a beating with all the forest fires, and it's getting hotter and hotter. Pretty soon, it'll be no different from what people think of today as SoCal weather.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by qchris on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:58PM (#25334824)
I moved to SoCal from New England, and I miss the weather there so much! I don't hate 70s and sunny, but I genuinely miss thunderstorms, clouds giving way to downpours, the quiet after fresh snowfall, the shock of stepping outside on a winter's day, the glee and madness of watching hail suddenly fall on a spring day.

Comparing that to not being able to work outside because the state is on fire and the air quality has been before recommended levels for a week is not my favorite tradeoff.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by residentfoam on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:42PM (#25334600)
The weather in SF is boring. Seasons are much better. I like cold winter, fall, warm spring and hot summers.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by mlyle on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:40PM (#25334557)
It's rarely unreasonably cold or unreasonably humid and hot.

And almost everywhere else has large numbers of days where one of the above is true.

Sure, it would be neat if we could have one snowy day a year and a summer thunderstorm or two, too.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by delaynomore on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:07PM (#25334966)
To each their own I guess. We'll gladly take the "boring" year-round spring over harsh winter (-30/40 windchill, hazardous winter driving, etc).
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by UncleOxidant on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:13PM (#25334171)
Yeah, that one didn't make sense to me either. Lived in Oregon for the last... oh, wow, times flies... 30 years and I'd never consider moving back to the Bay Area. Except, if suddenly there were about 1/2 the people there and housing prices somehow went to reasonable levels. The weather is generally so pleasant there.

> anything grows

I'm a gardener. Wherever I go I grow a garden. When I lived in the South Bay the soil in our backyard was AMAZING. Never seen soil like that anywhere else. You didn't have to do much of anything to grow stuff. It was easy to dig. It was like it was loam all the way down. So yes, the climate plays a big part of that 'anything grows', but so does the soil there which is exceptional.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by solumos on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:05PM (#25334072)
"Better"'s subjective - some people prefer extreme seasons (Midwest), 4 distinct seasons (East coast), 50s year-round (Northwest/SF), or sunny/70s most of the year (Miami? LA? Texas? Not a lot of experience personally).
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by auganov on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:33PM (#25334475)
Not sure about Texas[0], but LA is definitely way less humid than South Florida. Don't know too many people who actively like humidity at high temps. Some may not mind it. But those who hate it, like myself, just can't stand it.

I generally hate most warm climates because they tend to be humid. LA was very nice. The nicest climate I've experienced so far. Haven't been to Northern California though (I imagine it's roughly the same but cooler, so may like it more).

[0] seems like the problem there is it gets much cooler at night, more intraday variation.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by cam0 on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:08PM (#25334113)
Miami/LA/Texas more like 90's most of the year
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by wavefunction on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:15PM (#25334198)
At least in Austin and North of there, you start seeing 90s in April but average temperature of 90F+ is Jun-September. https://weatherspark.com/y/8004/Average-Weather-in-Austin-Te... I can't speak for South Texas as I am unfamiliar with the climate beyond some occasional visits.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by ivalm on Monday December 07, 2020 @02:14PM (#25335907)
Unless you are very inland LA is not 90s most of the year. Heck, it’s not even 80s most of the year. It’s 70s.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by solumos on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:16PM (#25334220)
Sheesh, I would melt - I'm a "4 reasonable seasons" person myself.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by pontus on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:03PM (#25334050)
Perhaps you're talking about the east or south bay, but SF proper has awful weather. Moved there from NYC expecting the climate you describe only to find rugged and overcast weather year around. Moved to Los Angeles after a year and can say with 100% conviction that the weather here is categorically better.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by renewiltord on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:44PM (#25334622)
Yeah SF itself has rubbish weather. SoCal is most definitely where the good weather is.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by ghaff on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:16PM (#25334223)
I don't mind the SF weather for the most part. (I've never lived there but have spent a lot of time.) But it can definitely have "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco" thing go on.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by andreilys on Monday December 07, 2020 @11:58AM (#25333968)
San Diego and Los Angeles offer much better weather.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by ulfw on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:15PM (#25334206)
Especially on the coast. 100% agree.

I've had months and months of continuous rain in the Bay, something I never witnessed when living down South. It's cheaper too. Much much much MUCH more diverse. And food's better as is the landscape.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by hollerith on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:46PM (#25335522)
Sure, but So Cal has higher levels of air pollution, and never enduring cold weather is probably not good for your health in the long term.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by ulfw on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:03PM (#25349867)
People used to travel. In the old days. Before Covid.

Never did I say one should move to LA and never ever leave town. One can go skiing (nearby even!) or enjoy any kind of weather elsewhere.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by jjeaff on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:34PM (#25334489)
Ya, anytime I'm in the bay area, it seems to frequently be very cold and rainy. It really doesn't get that cold in socal.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by Ar-Curunir on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:00PM (#25334858)
... have you been to the Bay Area in the last 8 years? I wish we had even a week of continuous rain.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by ulfw on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:40PM (#25335444)
Only to visit. So, no. I moved away years ago. Couldn't stand the place. Nothing but work work work. And living in between nothing but office parks loses it's allure after a few years.

But I've had my fair share of multi-month El Ninos.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by biesnecker on Monday December 07, 2020 @11:58AM (#25333975)
Hard agree. I've told many people that the only thing that's not overrated about the Bay Area is the weather.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by residentfoam on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:54PM (#25334771)
The weather is also overrated. SF weather in particular is boring and sucks!
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by irrational on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:28PM (#25334398)
Isn't this very subjective? One person's "hard to beat weather" is another person's hell on earth. I personally hate heat and sun so I want to live somewhere where it is cool and cloudy the majority of the year. That is my idea of hard to beat weather. For other people that probably sounds terrible.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by jkaplowitz on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:14PM (#25334194)
> It’s almost non seasonal

You've just described why I don't like Silicon Valley weather, though indeed the easy and plentiful agriculture is a nice aspect aside from the scarcity of water which often ends up prioritizing farmers of things like almonds over actual residents. Where I live now, I get to enjoy all four seasons and don't have to consider water as a locally scarce resource.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by rhacker on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:49PM (#25334699)
A lot of people mistakenly drive North and don't realize how dreadful Oregon and Washington are. It's 10 times worse than anyone thinks on your actual mood. Reading a number of sunny days per year on city data doesn't do it justice. I recommend people move either to Arizona or tornado alley (if you're not worried about them).
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by Cactus2018 on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:21PM (#25334291)
Map of Köppen climate classification, "hot dry-summer" climates and "cool dry-summer" climates referred to as "Mediterranean"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_climate

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by rs999gti on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:10PM (#25334135)
> The diversity currently of this area is very high, it’s the home of top universities, between the two cross pollination of ideas happens non stop.

This is sort of the argument that management gives to having people in the office.

People need to be at a physical location together for cross-pollination and idea growth.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by moneywoes on Monday December 07, 2020 @11:57AM (#25333957)
Where did you move too of curiosity
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by rs999gti on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:07PM (#25334095)
> before the arrival of whites.

Jesus, bro, why'd you throw this in?

[dead]
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by jjeaff on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:32PM (#25334447)
Ya, imagine if someone like, accused the American voting system of being totally corrupt, without evidence and then specifically called out 3-4 of the largest majority Black population cities as being the root of corruption. And specifically called out all the poll workers (most of which are Black) in those cities as being corrupt cheaters.

Just imagine the uproar. No one in their right mind would stand behind someone like that, right?

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by newfriend on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:18PM (#25335133)
Being black doesn't make you immune to criticism and scrutiny.
Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by jjeaff on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @05:31PM (#25352360)
Of course not. But America's sad history of accusing Black people of crimes or actions they didn't commit means we must be extra careful when making accusations.

In this particular case, the surrounding white suburbs actually voted in larger percentages for Biden vs last time. The primarily Black urban areas voted similarly as they did last election and the one before.

But those white suburbs are not being accused of cheating.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by theptip on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:11PM (#25335015)
> There was no inherent "supremacy", just one created by a bunch of companies being together.

I think this somewhat understates the strength of acquired advantages in agglomeration economies. Particularly in an economy of ideas it seems to me that acquired advantages account for most of the benefit; beyond "cheap rent" there's not much "inherent" advantage to be had.

Even in traditional industry many of the advantages are acquired (i.e. not geographic, which is what I think you're getting at with "inherent supremacy"), the textbook example being Lancashire's dominance in textiles in the 19th century (https://voxeu.org/article/agglomeration-explains-lancashire-...).

I think it's a reasonable point to suggest that the exodus from SV could accelerate the development of other startup/tech hubs, and weaken the comparative advantage of SV, but I think you may be understating the current strengths of SV by focusing on "original advantages" like rent and other environmental/geographic attributes.

Re:Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley... by garden_hermit on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:13PM (#25334172)
> There was no inherent "supremacy", just one created by a bunch of companies being together.

That is why they have supremacy, though. Agglomeration effects are a big deal. Its why New York has remained a center of trade and finance for centuries, and why Detroit remains a hub for the automotive industry despite the city's bankruptcy.

No matter what brought the companies there in the first place, just "being together" is a huge deal and is hard to replicate elsewhere. We will see if tech will be an exception, but my prior is that proximity is important, even with WFH, and that Silicon Valley will remain the national center of tech companies.