What a dream.
That existed without JavaScript (and IIRC it was somewhat common back when JavaScript was a novelty): <meta http-equiv="Refresh: 60">
What a pleasant way to begin my day. Thank you for this moment of bliss.
Why would I ever want to touch a webmail interface with a 3 m pole?
That would've been a better world. Imagine the web that isn't an application platform. (it still isn't, but it's being actively shoehorned into becoming one)
Server-side applications (CGI) started the trend of the web browser becoming an application interface. Javascript made the web browser the application platform. But of course it was not designed for this, so a million hacks have been added to shore it up. To the point of literally including a standard to ship arbitrary binary executable programs into it. There used to be another tool and language which allowed you to ship arbitrary binary executable programs to remote systems... it was called Java.
The Web is the best example in history of how successful turd polishing can be. The global economy now rests on it.
Phones were invented to only make phone calls.
Coca-Cola was originally created as a way to counter morphine addiction.
Listerine was originally a floor cleaner.
None of those were turds and neither is the web as an application platform. Quite the opposite- Native apps suck compared to web apps. The only native apps I personally use besides the browser on my phone are Maps, Messages, Slack, Camera/Photos and those are only because there's no other choice. Imagine having to use an app instead of popping open the web browser to order from Amazon? Yeesh
Oh wait. Yes there is. It's the web app as a native app, because the browser experience literally wasn't good enough.
Saying web apps are superior to native apps is like saying a bicycle with a 2-stroke is superior to a motorcycle. Maybe for your use case it's better, but objectively it is literally a crappy imitation of the real thing that can't even do things the real thing can. A web app is the Visual Basic of applications (but not really since VB is so much more useful!)
Nope, it's not like saying that at all.
Your entire argument rests on denying that Electron is a browser too. That's incorrect. Electron is just another browser, one that the web app developer happens to have more control over than they do Chrome. Every Electron app is a web app. Browsers have always handled the native bits for the web app and that's exactly what Electron does. (On the mobile side of things, React Native via something like Expo would be the equivalent of Electron on the desktop.)
Together, the browser and the web app form a native app because a browser is basically a scriptable native app. So, your argument is that "native apps > scriptable native apps" which makes no sense.
> Maybe for your use case it's better...
Web tech is absolutely better for every user-facing (GUI) use case. Even with 3D games which are streaming via browsers right now - performance might not be the greatest right away but since browsers have all the capabilities that any other native apps has (because they're native apps themselves) - it wouldn't be inconceivable that 3D web games could perform on par with native 3D games.
Personally, I develop all of my CLI/server apps with web tech as well (that'd be JavaScript running under Node.js). There's really nothing better - and that's why JavaScript is the most popular programming language in the world by far.
> A web app is the Visual Basic of applications (but not really since VB is so much more useful!)
Having started my career with VBA I couldn't disagree more. But even so, is VB (VB5/6/VBA/VB.NET?) your go-to native development environment? Any of those choices are laughable IMO, but okay - I guess enjoy developing all of your apps in VB then :)
Imagine if you said that the pain and suffering of every developer for the last 25 years was largely your fault. There would be lawsuits. Class action. We'd all travel to come testify.
Hyperbole and nonsense. No one was "suffering" under Javascript until Node and compile-to-js languages and the Byzantine nightmare of a development environment that they created came along. No one was shouting "Javascript Delenda Est" when all you needed was an FTP account and a text editor to configure a JQuery plugin.
I mean, Javascript development used to be reasonably simple, straightforward and fun. It's Silicon Valley's fault that it no longer is, not the language.
Personally, I'd lay this at the "copy & paste, boot camp-trained" webdevs community's feet, along with their customers.
Js has an unfortunate ecosystem dynamic where its primary customers (I want to X on the web) don't understand it, so its primary developers don't have any standardization pressure (fragmentation / spaghetti at the wall), browsers are forced to enable this behavior via monkey patching standardization in presentation, so its end users (browser users) are oblivious to everything under the hood.
It's like the perfect storm of hidden sausage-making.
You can be a Java dev for years (forever really) without understanding how the JVM works. I don't see why the web has to be any different.
Ime, the less visibility and knowledge customers have into an implementation, the more opportunity there is for developers (especially contract) to go off the rails.
When the code behind "it works in my browser" is completely opaque... that doesn't set up the best technical incentives in the market. Past "minimize time-to-deliver".
Down the following thread, Brendan suggested googling "constructive separation" -- but I'm not sure if he meant for that euphemism to apply to how he left his job at Mozilla, or to how he wanted to cancel and destroy existing happy same sex marriages in California against their consent. All of the google results have to do with marriage, not employment. Brendan, care to clarify?
As JavaScript proves, Brendan Eich never really understood the concept of equality: https://dorey.github.io/JavaScript-Equality-Table/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24127716
DonHopkins 3 months ago | on: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses ...
Eich was not forced out or fired. In fact, just the opposite: the board actually tried to get Eich to stay, but he decided to leave all on his own. Don't try to rewrite history to make an ideological point. It's all very well and unambiguously documented what really happened, and there's no excuse for you spreading that misinformation.
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/05/faq-on-ceo-resignat...
Q: Was Brendan Eich fired?
A: No, Brendan Eich resigned. Brendan himself said:
“I have decided to resign as CEO effective April 3rd, and leave Mozilla. Our mission is bigger than any one of us, and under the present circumstances, I cannot be an effective leader. I will be taking time before I decide what to do next.”
Brendan Eich also blogged on this topic.
Q: Was Brendan Eich asked to resign by the Board?
A: No. It was Brendan’s idea to resign, and in fact, once he submitted his resignation, Board members tried to get Brendan to stay at Mozilla in another C-level role.