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Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by isaacimagine on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @02:18PM (#25280259)
Summary: the 'Magic Number', i.e. the fine structure constant, α, which has been known to be about 1/137, has been measured more accurately. From the article:

> α = 1/137.03599920611. (The last two digits are uncertain.)

Implications: this constant underpins much of why the universe is the way it is. A tiny bit higher or lower would result in drastically different universes. Measuring it more precisely allows scientists to make more accurate predictions and hence rule out / refine potential models of our universe.

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by NetOpWibby on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @10:32PM (#25285031)
Scientists figured out the seed for our reality. Neat.
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by MitPitt on Thursday December 03, 2020 @01:05AM (#25285935)
These Minecraft enthusiasts are getting out of control
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by amelius on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @05:18PM (#25282481)
Is it really a constant or can there still be a (a little) variation in the number when measured over astronomical distances, or over large timescales?
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by Denvercoder9 on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @06:10PM (#25283025)
We don't know for sure, and we probably never will. It's impossible to prove that something is actually a constant over large distances and timescales. You can always go a bit further or wait a bit longer, where it might not be as constant as we expected.

However, most experimental data so far is in agreement on it actually being a constant.

Wikipedia has a section on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant#Is_the...?

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by analog31 on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @05:40PM (#25282721)
One of the potential benefits of improving the measurement of a "constant" is that you can now uncover fluctuations that were previously buried in noise. Not that I can think of a way of doing it in this case, but perhaps the spectra of distant stars might tell us something.
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by l33tman on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @07:12PM (#25283602)
This PBS SpaceTime episode has a good catchup of this and ways to measure this over longer scales:

https://youtu.be/YJzoelANL_Y

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by dvsfish on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @07:39PM (#25283813)
Phenomenal channel
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by bsder on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @08:23PM (#25284115)
It really does appear to be a constant.

One of the things the cosmologists are always doing is looking for anomalies that might indicate that some "constant" really has changed over time or distance.

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by mxcrossb on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @06:11PM (#25283040)
> Surprisingly, her new measurement differs from Müller’s 2018 result in the seventh digit, a bigger discrepancy than the margin of error of either measurement.

Apparently there can be differences based on if you measure in Paris or Berkeley? Though it’s more likely there is some other source of error. I think having the technical ability for a precise measurement may one day help us look for fluctuations.

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by drran on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @06:20PM (#25283135)
When our visible Universe will drastically change, this constant will change too.
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by peglasaurus on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @08:20PM (#25284089)
Not sure why you're being downvoted, as by definition, if this constant is valid for how this universe is as it is configured now then significantly changing the universe will likely result in a different constant. How you might change the universe enough to cause a variation is a bigger question. Concentrating all the stars (mass) to one place might do it. Maybe not.

The flip side of that question is the larger and generally accepted as obvious statement: a constant with value "x" determines or reflects how the universe is as of now. The duration of that "now" is likely much longer than the earths entire existence.

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by bryanrasmussen on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @03:56PM (#25281512)
can you recommend in depth reading material on what would happen if the number were higher or lower?
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by sbdmmg on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @04:49PM (#25282117)
From [1] (links therein might be more in-depth)

"stable matter, and therefore life and intelligent beings, could not exist if its value were much different. For instance, were α to change by 4%, stellar fusion would not produce carbon, so that carbon-based life would be impossible. If α were greater than 0.1, stellar fusion would be impossible, and no place in the universe would be warm enough for life as we know it."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant#Anthro...

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @06:54PM (#25283469)
> For instance, were α to change by 4%, stellar fusion would not produce carbon, so that carbon-based life would be impossible.

If it were to change by 4% in which direction?

> If α were greater than 0.1

Considering it's .007 that's a ridiculously huge change.

And I can't access the source article.

So thanks for trying but that's not very helpful.

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by smilliken on Thursday December 03, 2020 @12:47AM (#25285833)
Not 4% of 1, but 4% of α.
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by Dylan16807 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @02:04AM (#25286326)
> Not 4% of 1, but 4% of α.

I know. But which direction? Higher, lower, or both? If it's 4% in both directions that's quite a coincidence.

And since we're talking about percentages of α, I will emphasize that going from .007 to .1 is a change of well over a thousand percent. That example is the exact opposite of the anthropic principle showing that we "could not exist if its value were much different"!

What did I say to deserve the downvotes?

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by alok-g on Thursday December 03, 2020 @02:46PM (#25293676)
Decrease by 4%, AFAIK.

Upvoted your downvoted comment.

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by hanoz on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @07:24PM (#25283703)
I would highly recommend Martin Rees' Just Six Numbers. I've not read the actual book, but the author-narrated audio is a perennial mind-expanding yet strangely soporific bed time favourite of mine.
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by vlovich123 on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @04:41PM (#25282023)
It's in the article, no?

> The constant is everywhere because it characterizes the strength of the electromagnetic force affecting charged particles such as electrons and protons

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by bryanrasmussen on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @04:48PM (#25282114)
well for example when it says " Physicists have argued that if it were something like 1/138, stars would not be able to create carbon, and life as we know it wouldn’t exist."

I might like to read more conjecture as to what would exist if it were 1/138

and so forth.

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by d0100 on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @05:53PM (#25282857)
> α = 1/137.03599920611. (The last two digits are uncertain

It must certainly be 42

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by newsbinator on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @11:02PM (#25285230)
This comment is an ideal example of this discussion:

> Ask HN: Why does HN hate humor?

> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25278680

Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by d0100 on Thursday December 03, 2020 @10:29AM (#25289746)
Oh I knew I was risking downvotes, however I gambled that it was sufficiently different to maybe slide by
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by ibraheemdev on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @09:06PM (#25284413)
Looks like I'm too late for the 42 joke...
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by Koshkin on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @08:48PM (#25284286)
It is one over 42 times 3 plus 11 (where the last two digits are uncertain).
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by drran on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @06:16PM (#25283094)
It is 42, but in our Visible Universe it's 137.
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by Koshkin on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @08:52PM (#25284308)
Sure, sure, it’s like, there is pi, and then there’s raspberry pi.
Re:Physicists Nail Down the ‘Magic Number’ That Shapes the U... by rbanffy on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @07:17PM (#25283652)
When you account for all dimensions, it tends to 42.