News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by teddyh on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:17PM (#25193077)
I’ve got a feature you can only get on an iPhone by jailbreaking: Being a general-purpose computer
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by crubier on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:20PM (#25193107)
Yes exactly and this is why I have a MacBook, which has a keyboard and a trackpad and a decent screen. I don’t want my phone to be a general purpose computer. Not everything has to be that.
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by ryandrake on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:35PM (#25193252)
Yea, it seems like purely a philosophical goal for people anymore. Just because something has a CPU, that doesn’t make it a general purpose computer. There just doesn’t seem to be any practical benefit anymore.

I remember when I was younger, and I felt this odd moral imperative to having root on any device I had that I knew ran an operating system of some sort. Once I succeeded, then... well, nothing. It was pointless. Oh, wow I got Linux running on my PlayStation 2! Root login, baby! Look, it’s X Windows!! I have harnessed the power of the machine and am finally that much closer to..... well, nothing a PC can’t already do better.

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by alickz on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @06:48AM (#25197586)
Back when I had a jailbroken iPhone (4S I believe) there were many useful, or just cool, jailbreak tweaks.

Notable ones I remember where:

1. SBSettings, basically control center before Apple added the control center.

2. Flux, before Apple added Night Mode (or whatever they call it)

3. Winterboard, for theming the phone in ways

4. Gameboy emulator, though now I think this can be done without jailbreak.

5. Unlocking the carrier.

6. File explorer

I'm sure there was more too.

For me jailbreaking is partly a philosophical goal, but also I just like seeing all the stuff people come up with when they aren't restrained by the walls of the garden.

If you read above you'll see most of the good jailbreak tweaks were brought into stock iOS at some point, which is great too. Let jailbroken users/devs try new things and if they work well bring them in with some Apple polish.

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by kinjba11 on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:55PM (#25193458)
Why do you need two devices? iPhone hardware is faster than many laptops. In 2020 I should be able to trivially attach a external monitor, keyboard, trackpad, etc. to my phone and compile code on iOS for iOS. The fact that I can't is nothing more than the current zeitgeist. A laptop at this point should just be a big battery/screen/trackpad I attach to my phone.
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by fastball on Monday November 23, 2020 @09:23PM (#25194595)
People tried that I think and nobody really liked it.

Can't remember who did it, but seemed like the consensus at the time was that all you end up with is the worst of both worlds.

Hybrid devices only rarely end up successful it seems.

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by tim-- on Monday November 23, 2020 @10:47PM (#25195074)
Samsung still does it (Dex)

https://www.samsung.com/us/explore/dex/

It's actually really good. I can wirelessly turn my TV into a 4K Android tablet, and with a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, it turns into a computer.

Same with a USB cable plugged into my desk's monitor to HDMI. If I didn't require a computer for development, I would not buy computers any more.

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by tejinderss on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @05:41PM (#25203865)
> It's actually really good. I can wirelessly turn my TV into a 4K Android tablet

Wireless Dex is limited to 1080p and wired one goes to max 1440p

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by mrtksn on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:01AM (#25195424)
If it’s any good, why does not take over the world?
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by tim-- on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:27AM (#25195577)
I'm guessing it was Samsung neutering the platform. They never have really given too much time to advertising the capabilities of the platform (for example, no displays in their stores demoing the "phone as a desktop" capability).

The Samsung DeX Station (https://www.samsung.com/au/galaxy-s8-accessories/dex-station...) is no longer manufactured which is a massive let down. It does however still work with the S10+, and I presume the S20. The ability send a network cable straight to the phone was pretty handy for a few situations.

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by o-__-o on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:51AM (#25195691)
Samsung has stores?

My mom refuses to use dex, I found it to be great as a basic workstation. Definitely removes the need for eg a chrome book. Does not replace your power user machine however

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by tim-- on Thursday November 26, 2020 @07:45PM (#25224641)
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by lmm on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:11AM (#25195486)
The HTC phone-shell-thing didn't really work, but that was more because it gave a bad experience as a laptop - both at the hardware level (phone-in-shell not being as stable or nice-feeling as a normal laptop) and the software level (non-x86 laptops kind of suck in terms of software availability).

Samsung's Dex dock thingy still exists and can be useful when travelling - most hotel rooms you can plug into the TV with HDMI, so a phone and keyboard is less trouble than carrying a full laptop. If you could rely on finding a keyboard (even just a USB one) in any hotel room it would be a lot better. And hopefully with apple shifting to ARM there'll be a lot more desktop software that runs properly on phone processors.

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by icelancer on Monday November 23, 2020 @09:34PM (#25194652)
Should just be able to virtualize Linux/Windows inside of it. Eventually phones will be more than powerful enough to do that and we'll hotdesk with dumb terminals + phones.
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by teddyh on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @03:30AM (#25196462)
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by com2kid on Monday November 23, 2020 @10:28PM (#25194976)
Motorola did it and Microsoft did it.

I think Samsung may have also given it a go.

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by grahamburger on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:16AM (#25195520)
But why? If you're going to carry around a battery/screen/track pad anyway, why not just attach a CPU to it?
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by teddyh on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:30PM (#25193206)
I’ve got a policy: If something is a general-purpose computer for someone else, but not for me, that is not a device for me. iPhones fall squarely in that category: They’re general-purpose computers for Apple, but not for the ostensible “owners” of these devices.

Of course (as I wrote here three years ago¹), a non-programmable dumb/feature phone without updateability would also be adequate for my personal needs for what I need a phone for.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15358342#15366260

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by tptacek on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:41PM (#25193307)
I don't understand the logic here. You seem to be saying that it's better to have a featurephone than a modern phone if you can't load arbitrary code on the modern phone, but that logic, applied broadly, would serve almost no consumers well.
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by teddyh on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:49PM (#25193393)
I said nothing of the kind. I expressed a personal policy and preference, and I did not mention “consumers”.
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by m4rtink on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:54PM (#25193444)
Actually, I can imagine a modern "dumpphone" being a preaty nice think - make it say in a classic candybar shape and make sure it has good time on battery & can be used as wifi hotspot/mobile modem over USB.

Application could be very basic (calendar, address book, calculator, alarm, etc.) - by default. Or users could make their own simple apps - nothing fancy, Arduino like cooperative multitasking, simple screen drawing, maybe a few widget helpers.

I can imagine this being a fun thing to use & play with. :)

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by c22 on Monday November 23, 2020 @08:19PM (#25194127)
You want the Nokia 8110 "banana phone" [0], a re-release of the phone Neo uses in The Matrix. Unfortunately there's no US version :(

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Nokia-8110-TA-1067-2-45-inches-Unlock...

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by dane-pgp on Monday November 23, 2020 @11:55PM (#25195388)
It's the best, beats the rest, cellular, modular, interactivodular.
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by yjftsjthsd-h on Monday November 23, 2020 @08:26PM (#25194178)
So are you intentionally hinting at the Light Phone, or is it news to you that someone has implemented exactly what you're describing? :) (https://www.thelightphone.com/)
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by m4rtink on Thursday November 26, 2020 @11:56AM (#25221622)
First time seeing that, but it comes preatty close!

Still, being able to write your own apps for it would be nice. Even if very low level APIs & you would have to handle distribution yourself if you wanted to share them would be fine. But I don't see any information about that after quickly checking their page.

BTW, a simple mobile terminal with cellular connection that you can program could be preatty useful in comparison to hacking a regular Android phone to only do what you need could be useful as well. For stuff like single use online terminals to give to field crews.

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by m4rtink on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:50PM (#25193402)
Well, on modern Android phones you can connect a keyboard and a mouse not to mention often a big screen.

Making a smartphone that does not behave as a general purpose computer is stuping and not to mention dangerous (as the manufacturer can always use it as a general purpose computer for its own nefarious means).

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by spijdar on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:58PM (#25193968)

  > as the manufacturer can always use it as a general purpose computer for its own nefarious means
This is assuming the device is, in fact, a general purpose computer. This is true now basically all of the time, but it doesn't have to be.

I can imagine as a thought experiment an ASIC or FPGA based phone that implements a very high level application processor, while what we normally call firmware, OS and libraries are implemented in "pure hardware".

(I agree with your sentiment, but somewhat disagree with your apparent conclusion android phones are any better if you're worried about bad actors -- the baseband and DSP from Qualcomm are processors running code we can never touch underlying the entire hardware. Similarly, almost all other computer hardware have separate CPUs inside the main CPU where the mfc. runs their own secret code which cannot be tampered with or even directly seen sometimes)

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by m4rtink on Thursday November 26, 2020 @11:50AM (#25221540)
Oh, no question about Android being more secure from bad actors - there are most likely multiple parties that could be problematic (Google, device manufacturer, baseband manufacturer, network operator, etc.) while with Apple its just a single such entity.

What I meant is that on Android There is less being done to actively prevent their usage as a self hosting workstation (though some recent "security" changes communig from Google related to running code that does not come from an installed APK might be a reversal of that trend).

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by wwright on Monday November 23, 2020 @09:09PM (#25194496)
Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by snazz on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:42PM (#25193860)
You can use a keyboard and mouse on recent iOS versions as well (and it works very comfortably on iPadOS). You can also connect an adapter to use a big screen.

I disagree with your argument that smartphones should be general-purpose computers. I don't think that having a smartphone be a general-purpose computer provides a significantly improved amount of control for 99.9% of the population.

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by xg15 on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @05:50PM (#25203934)
I get that being able to run arbitrary code on a device is often not that important in practice.

How about being able to not run any code that you don't want your device to run? No DRM, no nag screens, no tracking, etc etc...

A non-rooted phone very much is a general-purpose computer, just not for you.

Re:A new jailbreak for a new era by jrsj on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:05PM (#25200373)
For now, and still in a very limited capacity. But I absolutely think a desktop mode powered by an iPhone is coming. It's almost certainly being tested at Apple, and the move to Apple Silicon only makes it more likely that this will happen. It seems reasonable that an iPhone or iPad could run containerized Mac applications in this mode. Which to me could be the biggest expansion to access to computing since the smartphone itself if it were to become popular.