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Re:Airbnb S-1 by busterarm on Monday November 16, 2020 @08:55PM (#25119508)
This seems incredibly dangerous as visitors on a tourist visa are required to register themselves with the local police within 24 hours of arriving at their destination.

Trying to stay under the radar seems like it courts risk of deportation, as I've known _lots_ of folks who got a visit from police at their place of stay who were not aware of this. Virtually all of them settled things fine but it was more headache than had they just done what they're supposed to.

I believe in a hotel stay, your hotel registers you online so that you don't have to deal with this.

Re:Airbnb S-1 by Accacin on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @02:27AM (#25121072)
So my wife is Chinese and from Shantou, a pretty big city in the South. First time I went, of course we stay at her parents house and I tell them that it's required we get registered at the police station.

Her uncle, my wife, and I went to four police stations. All refused to register my stay and told me to go the next place. The final one told me that they require to see our marriage certificate (which we didn't have as I never read once that it was needed), so we gave up.

I've been many times now, and I've never had a problem although it's a city that foreigners probably do not travel to as much as say Shanghai or Beijing.

Re:Airbnb S-1 by klik99 on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @03:56AM (#25121483)
I was going to say that was strange as I've stayed in Nanjing and my wifes small town (of several million people) outside of Nanjing and didn't get denied, but then realized that you didn't have the marriage certificate with you. I do believe that's required everywhere. For native Chinese it's becoming easier to visit other places because the registration system is becoming more digital. That unfortunately has the side effect of making it increasingly more difficult for foreigners since the manual method is becoming less common and therefore more confusing for local police.

It is interesting in the context of AirBnB - with the registration system they can't use the same "it's better to ask forgiveness than permission" approach they used in US. I have seen very successful foreign run businesses, for example a friend who imported steel in China, do really well for many years because the government wasn't interested in their industry, and then all of sudden find himself against several competitors and be completely out of business in the space of 6-12 months. I'm bullish on AirBnB but depending on success in China is a risky strategy.

Re:Airbnb S-1 by mcntsh on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @04:01AM (#25121507)
This is kind of off topic of AirBnB but can you share a little bit more about the registration system in China? By the way you describe it, it sounds like not only foreigners must register with the police when they visit other cities.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by klik99 on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @09:52AM (#25124333)
No, only foreign nationals must register when visiting places. Chinese citizens only must register at the police station when moving - though as if often the case, many people ignore such rules. I just meant that the state is tracking where people visit thanks to digital means - facial recognition and cell records. But foreigners can't really skirt those rules, both because they aren't as easily tracked and because they stand out.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by powerapple on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:08AM (#25147622)
As Chinese you don't need to register when you move. There is Hukou system which determine which city/province you belong to (mostly used for welfare system), the system basically require you to have a permit to stay and work in a different province. It was quite strict 30 years ago because of the imbalance between provinces, many migrate workers. Residence address is not important as in western countries (where your bank account links to your residence address). That said, hotels (and netcafes) do need to register customers' ID.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by klik99 on Sunday November 22, 2020 @10:51PM (#25183407)
Hukou is what I was referring to. It's not just welfare, but distribution of state money (like USAs census) and in some places required to purchase property in that area. Most ignore the requirement (like they do many rules), so I understand why you say they "don't need to register", but technically it is required. This is where it gets fuzzy when you say something in China is "required" - technically it might be so but in practice it's not enforced, unless the government has a particular reason to enforce it, and even then it's usually temporary. It ends up being a weird situation where technically there's more restrictions in China but in practice there's a lot less red tape to deal with than living in the US. What that means in practice is if Beijing doesn't like you, they will find a laundry list of requirements you violated. Bringing it back to AirBnB IPO that concerns me.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by ximeng on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @05:01AM (#25121941)
They have a copy of the registrations for previous stays in a centralised computer system used at the border. They don’t necessarily flag up a lack of registration but they do keep the information and nothing to stop them raising it up as an issue in future.

You also don’t need to be married to stay in a private home.

Fine up to 2,000 RMB, more info:

https://en.tripadvisor.com.hk/ShowTopic-g294211-i642-k123478...

Re:Airbnb S-1 by easyKL on Monday November 16, 2020 @09:46PM (#25119777)
I can say that while staying with locals I never registered or being asked to. And it went like this for a couple of months. Not only with Chinese, but also expats. I mainly got my accomodation though CouchSurfing (I wasn't aware of BeWelcome nor TrustRoots back then) The hosts seemed to have guests very often and we were never asked to pretend to be friends from home or anything. This happened not only in the main cities, also in some prefecture-level cities. It happened on a tourist visa, back in 2015
Re:Airbnb S-1 by busterarm on Monday November 16, 2020 @11:41PM (#25120321)
Yes, many people do in fact break the law and get away with it. This should not be surprising.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by wolco2 on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @12:53AM (#25120695)
If it is common then why did you say this was dangerous?
Re:Airbnb S-1 by Torn on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @01:00AM (#25120715)
Chinese police are not known for a lax attitude to rule breaking when it comes to foreigners
Re:Airbnb S-1 by CURLY3Y on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @01:53AM (#25120915)
Anecdotal experiences incoming:

I am moderately involved with various sinology students from Europe. And have traveled to China personally.

Personally I stayed at various AirBnBs within China and registered at the police in Bejing and Shanghai.

The host provided a signed letter confirming where we are staying. With that letter I headed to a local police station where I gave the letter and had to fill out a form with basic personal details and address of where I was staying.

In return I got a stamped letter confirming my stay.

Anecdotes from others: People who have registered late for various reasons (finding apartment, inconvenient arrival combined with work, etc)

I have as of yet not heard anything experience other than the police saying please register on time next time and still got their stamped confirmation of stay.

One standout story however is someone who looked up a recent political dissident via Baidu and got a visit from the police, nothing really exceptional happened except he got visited at his apartment got told off, had to sign a letter confirming the visit and infraction.

The person in question has been back to china multiple times since.

Re:Airbnb S-1 by Razengan on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @03:54AM (#25121469)
> someone who looked up a recent political dissident via Baidu and got a visit from the police

......How is anyone okay with this..

Re:Airbnb S-1 by bosie on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @05:39AM (#25122172)
> had to sign a letter confirming the visit and infraction.

sorry, what infraction?

Re:Airbnb S-1 by TimTheTinker on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @06:23PM (#25144013)
Looking up a political dissident. That's apparently illegal in China.

(It is a communist nation where disagreeing with the government is tantamount to treason and is treated as such.)

Re:Airbnb S-1 by blablablub on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @03:14AM (#25121271)
Chinese police are known to shy away from any work that falls away from what they are normally doing. Registering a foreigner in a small town is a once in a lifetime experience for them, so many things can go wrong, so they wont do it.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by powerapple on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:10AM (#25147637)
The problem will only arise when you happen to be a criminal and your friend will be in trouble. If nothing happens, no one is going to check the record.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by kenneth on Monday November 16, 2020 @09:45PM (#25119768)
This is why I always stay in a hotel and not with friends or Airbnbs whenever I visit China. I'm not bothered to deal with registration and the hotel takes care of it.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by silverpepsi on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @01:07AM (#25120757)
Nevermind that around 90% of hotels in China do not allow foreigners. It was not a fond memory dragging my heavy baggage one place to the next for half a day being rejected all over Beijing (experienced it in Shanghai and Guangzhou too)

Of course the wealthy here would never know, most places priced in the top 20% expensive accept foreigners. I was a poor student and also worked as a teacher($400/mo) looking for midrange accomodations, not to spend a month's pay on a weekend trip

Re:Airbnb S-1 by dheera on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @01:20AM (#25120814)
> dragging my heavy baggage one place to the next for half a day being rejected all over Beijing

Yep, one would think that for a government that cares so much about their image they would avoid visitors having to go through this nonsense.

For budget travellers to Beijing -- 如家 accepts foreigners last I checked. 7天 used to but they don't anymore as of a couple years ago.

Re:Airbnb S-1 by powerapple on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:18AM (#25147673)
There were two system in the past: hotels for foreigners, designed to take passports and hotels for citizens, taking only IDs. There has been recent national system upgrades, now Chinese can use passport as identification (although still not universally). Since last year, you can use passport to check in high speed rail stations (maybe still not all of them) without queueing up in exchange for a real ticket. The direction is clear. It is a big IT system with different departments, I can imagine the problem will be gone in the future.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by Razengan on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @03:56AM (#25121486)
If China really cared about their image they wouldn’t be doing all the things they try to hide.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by kenneth on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @11:10PM (#25133135)
Never had this issue, but then again granted I stay with the nicer hotels typically part of a western chain.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by j8hn on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @12:00AM (#25120410)
What most tourists don't know is that the hotel has to be registered to accept foreigners. I don't know if it's an issue any longer, but some foreigners found out the hard way after booking accommodations through Ctrip.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by Reason077 on Monday November 16, 2020 @09:32PM (#25119705)
> ”your hotel registers you online so that you don't have to deal with this”

If a hotel can do it, surely there’s no reason why Airbnb can’t figure it out?

Re:Airbnb S-1 by Guest19023892 on Monday November 16, 2020 @09:48PM (#25119788)
I rented a number of Airbnb apartments in different countries, many of which required guests to be registered with the police. Typically the owner would meet me when checking-in, and they'd take a copy of my passport or drivers license, and occasionally I'd have to fill out a form with a few basic pieces of information (name, date of birth, etc) for them to submit. It was usually 2 minutes of work.

The downside was it was all incredibly insecure. They'd be snapping passport photos on their personal phone, and one apartment had a book in the living room with passport numbers and personal information of every previous guest.

So, technically it works now in different countries, but Airbnb really needs to assist these owners and get some proper procedures in place.

Re:Airbnb S-1 by eloff on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @12:14AM (#25120488)
I had to do this at an AirBnB in Cuba. It seemed like a lot of work for the owners. I was also a little nervous about taking photos of passports and things before I understood it's a government process. The platform should help out here.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by busterarm on Monday November 16, 2020 @09:40PM (#25119741)
How are they going to do that at the place where you're not legally allowed to be staying?

This was reckless and stupid of them and demonstrates what AirBnB often does -- that they put their business above the safety of their guests and hosts.

Re:Airbnb S-1 by Reason077 on Monday November 16, 2020 @09:49PM (#25119791)
What do you mean? Airbnb is perfectly legal in China, subject to the guest registration requirements mentioned here.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by busterarm on Monday November 16, 2020 @11:40PM (#25120317)
It was not when they first started operating there which is the context with which the conversation was being had.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by friendzis on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @03:56AM (#25121480)
I do not see how AirBnB can figure it out at all, under their current business model. Their business model depends on not vetting the place of stay and doing bare minimum for deal brokerage. Dealing with this would require them to incorporate all the fine details of hoteling into the business model.
Re:Airbnb S-1 by goatinaboat on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @03:51AM (#25121458)
If a hotel can do it, surely there’s no reason why Airbnb can’t figure it out?

A good innovation for AirBnB would be to automatically notify the relevant tax authorities about their hosts income from illegal subletting, ahem, I mean "renting out a spare room"

Re:Airbnb S-1 by lmm on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @12:24AM (#25120534)
It wouldn't be a problem if they were operating legally (e.g. if the place you were staying in had the appropriate license to operate a hotel).