Introducing the next generation of Mac

Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by yoz-y on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:32PM (#25052254)

The only bad thing about the current 16" is the Touch Bar. There is a lot to like about the rest though.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by perfect_wave on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:59PM (#25053230)

I agree here. I really don't understand some of the bashing that happens every single time the Macbook Pros come up in HN comments.

I was a longtime happy owner of a 2015 15" MBP until earlier this year when I decided it was time to upgrade to a refurbished 2019 16" MBP. I was a bit nervous at first but I have to say that I have no major complaints, other than the fact that I wish I had F keys instead of the touchbar. Contrary to everyone else, I really like the keyboard.

As for solving the touchpad issue, I use Pock [1] which I read about on HN. It removes the need for using a slider every time I want to adjust the volume or brightness and lets me control Spotify and see what song is currently playing.

I also have a 2018 15" MBP for work. If you believed the comments here you'd think that I am unable to type or use the damn thing. Honestly, after 1 week of use I'm already used to the keyboard. Not having an escape key kind of sucked, but I have rebound caps lock to escape on all of my Macbooks and enjoy that even more than having an escape key.

My other complaint is that the trackpad is a bit too large - I find myself accidentally hitting it sometimes and it just seems excessive. Finally, it's a shame that you can't mess with the battery/RAM/SSD yourself but unfortunately that's more of a trend for the industry than just Apple.

Overall I'm a totally happy user on both the 2018 and 2019 Macbook Pros. I was quite nervous about the possibility of having to use a Windows PC for work when I started my new job. And don't even get me started on having to use a Pixelbook at Google.

[1] https://pock.dev/

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by ggregoire on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @06:47PM (#25053676)

> Contrary to everyone else, I really like the keyboard.

Lot of people like it, they just don't post about it.

Mine has a bunch of keys that print 2 or 3 times when I press the key once (the issue that everybody eventually get with the model I have) but I still prefer that flat keyboard to the old one. Takes a few days to get used to but then it's great.

I'm using https://github.com/aahung/Unshaky which fix the issue with the broken keys.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by cole-k on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @08:09PM (#25054388)

I wonder how many people are informing their opinions solely from the gross incompetence exhibited by Apple with your mentioned double tapping keys issue. I seem to recall that they have fixed it in newer models, but I wouldn't be surprised if it still persists.

I hate to admit it since I've drunk the mechanical keyboard koolaid, but I like the mbp flat keyboard. I easily prefer it to the 2015 keyboard, which imo is really nothing special (at least it doesn't gunk up). I hear people say great things about the thinkpad keyboard, but from my little experience with it, I'd still rank the mbp flat keyboard higher.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by chrischen on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @08:31PM (#25054558)

Yea, Apple has been posting record Macbook sales.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by RandallBrown on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @08:44PM (#25054658)

The 2019 16inch keyboard has a different style keyboard I believe.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by wingerlang on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @11:52PM (#25055595)

About the slider. You can tap-and-hold to quick access the slider.

But you can also do a quick swipe left/right on the button to a quick increase/decrease just like a tap.

I actually love the slider though. I hated it at first.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by kfarr on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @12:55AM (#25055887)

Thanks for the tip about pock.dev. I've been rocking GC-BTT. A bit cumbersome to setup but love the functionality: https://community.folivora.ai/t/goldenchaos-btt-the-complete...

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by knoke on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @03:45AM (#25056652)

With BTT and GoldenChaos you can swipe anywhere on the Touchbar with two fingers to change the volume, and with three fingers to change the brightness of the display.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by vmception on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @08:29PM (#25054545)

The 2019 mbp got rid of the butterfly keyboard. You have a normal keyboard thats why you like it.

Unless there is a separate late 2019 one.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by ralfd on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @06:52PM (#25053725)

> [1] https://pock.dev/

Looks useful! Thanks.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by fomine3 on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @09:34PM (#25054936)

It's fine for who love, but the problem is there's no alternative choice with macOS.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by werber on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:37PM (#25052310)

I use the 2020 macbook air personally and 16in professionally and the keyboard drives me insane, to the point I bought a magic keyboard to be able to function without screaming at my computer for accidentally turning my video camera on yet again during a meeting. I really wish they would have a no touch bar option, because I could use more power but still be able to touch type. Touch bar is the worst technological "improvement" I've ever come across.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by a_c_s on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:53PM (#25052498)

Did you know that you can change what buttons are on the Touch Bar? You can make it almost behave the same as other keyboard by having it always show F-keys.

https://support.apple.com/en-qa/guide/mac-help/mchl5a63b060/...

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by asdff on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:16PM (#25052787)

the difficulty isn't the content but the fact you can't blindly hit the key reliably. reminds me of back in the day where you could send a composed complete text message from your phone without taking it out of your hoodie pocket in class. not the case anymore in our touch screen world without tactile feedback.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by fastball on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:46PM (#25052423)

I'm genuinely surprised you are accidentally touching the TouchBar. I have had the 16" for 8 months and haven't done that once.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by baggy_trough on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:29PM (#25052932)

Must be finger positioning. I hit the TouchBar accidentally several times a day, each of which was infuriating, until I managed to semi-disable it by turning it into a row of inferior function keys.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by jll29 on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:53PM (#25052500)

My company gave me the current 16" late last year, and it's been a piece of junk: suddenly starts to roar without a reason (while plugged in to power supply) so people on a phone conference complain I should switch off the hoover.

Often freezes with not much open other than a few Chrome tabs, O365 and Sublime (not actually DOING much with any of them at the time).

The keyboard is poor, the touchbar is useless but doesn't get in the way that much, the touch pad is too large and disturbs me sometimes while typing source code. The lack of ports means without a hub the whole machine is pretty useless (and that means all users will have to buy an USB-C hub for another $100 - annoying but the real annoyance is to have that hanging of your laptop all the time, and you mustn't forget to pack it, or you're screwed).

I also dislike the 16" form factor compared to 13", as it breaks all my leather bags when I try to carry it (not so relevant anymore in the days of the home office..).

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by claudeganon on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:42PM (#25053060)

I was having issues with my 16” until I disabled Turbo Boost. I dunno if it’s specific to the i9 model, but it was running hot and processes were spinning out of control. Since disabling, it runs a lot cooler and I have pretty much zero issues.

http://tbswitcher.rugarciap.com/

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by JBiserkov on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @11:41PM (#25055548)

Doesn't that more than halve the single-thread performance?

2.4 GHz vs 5.0 GHz on the i9-9980HK and

2.3 GHz vs 4.8 GHz on the i9-9980H

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by claudeganon on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @11:32AM (#25059766)

Sure, but this has almost no impact on my daily use. If I really need to run something heavy locally, I just turn it back on.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by JBiserkov on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @04:32PM (#25063268)

Ok, so like a reverse Turbo button. You’re running an i4 most of the time (and that’s fine) and sometimes you crank it up to i9 (when the solo begins, to stretch this metaphor to the limit).

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by claudeganon on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @08:28PM (#25065317)

Exactly!

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by philliphaydon on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @12:37AM (#25055796)

I don't think that's a problem with Apple. I have a Dell XPS with an i9 in it, work gave me, i don't use it because idling in Windows the fans ramp up... If I use a laptop I end up using my personal Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Extreme (gen 1) which doesn't have fans trying to take off into space.

The original retina macbooks are still the best. :(

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by surfcao on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @06:32PM (#25053560)

So what to do if a powerful working machine is needed now, buy the current MBP 16" or go to thinkpad? Disappointed they didn't even upgrade the intel CPU on MBP 16" to the newer version.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by kabacha on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @08:46PM (#25054666)

I used t490s for a while and that has been my favorite machine since forever. In general ThinkPads are the way to go by the looks of it!

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by ewmiller on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:56PM (#25052537)

The newest one fixed it enough to satisfy me, i.e. it has a physical escape key again. I never used the rest of the function keys anyway, and I like the customizable nature of the touch bar. The lack of a physical escape key when they first introduced it was my only real gripe.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by Xavdidtheshadow on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @07:27PM (#25054060)

I was personally really hoping for an Intel 16" refresh today. I'm up for a new laptop at work and it's a little bit of a bummer to drop that much on a year-old machine. Not quite sure what to do at this point.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by gnicholas on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:23PM (#25052883)

For those of us who are trying to stay on Mojave (or older), being forced to use the current OS is also a downside.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by VectorLock on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:48PM (#25052445)

Is the keyboard less awful now compared to say 2018-19 15" MBPs?

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by yoz-y on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:55PM (#25052527)

It's very similar to the 2014 models, it has scissor switches and not the controversial butterfly keys. If you ever tried a magic keyboard then it's basically that.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by asdff on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:18PM (#25052805)

much better than those but a far cry from the one they killed off in 2015. feels like half the key travel.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by nicoburns on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @07:48PM (#25054241)

That and the lack of upgradable RAM/ storage.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by kabacha on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @08:42PM (#25054630)

My work gave me MacBook 16" 2020 and probably the worst business laptop I have ever had. The screen is smudgy and glary, the keyboard is awful, touch bar is a meme, no ports and finally it literally cuts my wrists because it was designed to be looked at not used.

It's an objectively awful laptop.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by mFixman on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:52PM (#25051747)

You are missing out if you don't have 4 USB-C ports in both sides of your laptop. You can charge your laptop and connect a display with a single cable and without caring about putting the computer in the right direction.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by egypturnash on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:09PM (#25051944)

My 2017 13” Pro (no touch at) has two USBC ports, both on the same side. It is annoying. Especially after it turned out there is a design flaw in the 2017 Pros where charging on one side tends to trash your battery - guess which side both ports are on?

It’s nice to only have to plug in one cable when I dock it at my desk but I would have greatly preferred not having to replace the battery twice in the three years I owned it due to this. Especially since only one replacement was covered under the warranty thanks to the ‘rona shutting down all the authorized service centers in my city.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by AlexandrB on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:30PM (#25052228)

But I can't get photos off of an SD card without a dongle, and if I trip on the power cord: bye, bye laptop. It's all relative I guess.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by Sodman on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @11:34PM (#25055513)

Overall I have positive feelings about my 2019 16" Macbook pro, and USB-C on both sides is definitely part of that... However I have yet to find a decent adapter that will both charge my laptop and output 4k @ 60FPS. I've gone through several iterations now and the closest I've come is a monitor that can connect via USB-C directly, but even then the power output only outputs enough juice when the machine is near-idle... I'm looking forward to the day when I can have a 1 (or even 2) cable dock setup that won't run me $250+. Until that day, I have to use all 4 ports for:

- Charger

- USB C (4k display)

- HDMI (4k Display)

- Ethernet

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by cactus2093 on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @07:07PM (#25053878)

Looks like the just announced 13" MBP only has 2 usb-c/thunderbolt ports and they're both on the same side.

Never occurred to me they would go backwards on this, I bet this is one of those overlooked details that will get a lot of notice once people actually start receiving these new laptops.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by brandonmenc on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @07:15PM (#25053955)

There are two models of 13" MBP - based on the other specs of this new machine, it occupies the lower tier - which in the Intel models also only has two ports.

Presumably, when they fill the higher tier with the new chip it will also have more RAM and more USB ports.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by swyx on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @06:00AM (#25057345)

don't MacBook mysteriously run slower if you plug in power on the left side instead of the right? I don't remember the cause but I've personally experienced this handedness issue on my mac

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by rplnt on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:18PM (#25052069)

Yeah, but the new MB Pro is a joke, again.

> And it features two Thunderbolt ports with USB 4 support to connect to more peripherals than ever,

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by sebmellen on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @02:35PM (#25050587)

Same here, I love this machine. Everything after 2015 went downhill in my view.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by acomjean on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @02:44PM (#25050752)

Same. This is the best machine I've owned.

I heard yesterday that Apple does not offer a battery replacement for 2014s and you have to go third party. This is an unfortunate development and I'm wondering if I should inquire about getting mine replaced.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by mikeklaas on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:49PM (#25051711)

I replaced the battery in my 2013 about 11 months ago, FWIW.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by shrimpx on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:15PM (#25051257)

I have this machine, it’s a super portable and reliable powerhouse. I recently upgraded to a 2019 15”, mostly to go up to 32G ram, and it feels like a downgrade in terms of design and usability.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by Thorentis on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:20PM (#25051318)

Also have this one. It was my first macbook, and I think I got really lucky with getting in when I did. Been going strong for 5 years, and has no difficulty doing anything I need it to do. Only thing I wish I did was get more storage (only got the 128GB model).

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by 0x008 on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:12PM (#25051987)

You can buy a $20 adapter on Amazon and stick any m.2 nvme ssd in there.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by nicoburns on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:49PM (#25051712)

FYI the storage is upgradable on these machines (and it's very straightforward to do). It's a nonstandard SSD interface, but you can official modules 2nd hand on ebay quite cheaply these days.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by ValentineC on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:59PM (#25052583)

Adding on: this forum thread should be able to get most people started: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upgrading-2013-2014-mac...

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by coredog64 on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:09PM (#25051948)

$20 will get you an adapter that allows standard m2 NVMe. I have one on my Amazon wishlist, just haven’t pulled the trigger yet.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by davidcollantes on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @07:44PM (#25054206)

Could you share a link to it? Thanks!

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by stjohnswarts on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:15PM (#25052770)

Do your research on the adapters though and drives. Some have issues with suspend. Make sure the hardware you add has been tested by some brave youtuber or blogger before buying anything. It looks like the actual act of repacing it isn't that bad though.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by nicoburns on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @06:58AM (#25057624)

I dodged this issue by just buying official apple drives (presumably taken from broken macs).

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by lisper on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:49PM (#25051713)

You can upgrade the SSD yourself with a kit from OWC.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by porcc on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:12PM (#25051994)

Don't do this, use an NVMe adapter, lets you use faster/cheaper/bigger normal SSDs. I have one myself and it works perfectly.

PS also don't waste your time trying to find ways to repurpose the old Mac SSD, an equivalent SSD or flash drive is cheaper than the enclosures

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by tokamak-teapot on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @06:12PM (#25053361)

I bought a PCI adapter for mine. It was cheap (cheaper than the cheapest SSD) and works. The Apple SSD is good enough that it was worth keeping.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by cyrialize on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @02:45PM (#25050770)

Used Apple products maintain their value very well. The 2015 MBP Retina can be found on Ebay between $700-$1000. I've thought about getting one myself.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by Aloisius on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @06:17PM (#25053412)

> not too thin, heavy enough

Wait. What? I can honestly say that I've never thought to myself that a laptop was too thin or too light.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by rdw on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @06:31PM (#25053543)

The Macbooks that were for many years the smallest and lightest Apple laptops, would be imbalanced and knocked off your lap by placing your hands on it slightly asymmetrically.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by spartanatreyu on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @06:25PM (#25053488)

If a laptop is too thin and doesn't have weights in it, just having it in your lap while lightly typing makes it wobble around like a boat in a storm.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by callamdelaney on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @06:23AM (#25057436)

I think these super thin laptops are ugly, too hot and not ergonomic - also this sacrifices the keyboard. I actually think this model represents the perfect mix of all of these things - thickness (being the thinnest thing I can buy is not a feature for me) - weight (I really don't mind 1.3kg) and keyboard.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by weystrom on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:37PM (#25053019)

Have the same machine, it's starting to chug. Modern web is too heavy for the old dualcore i5, unfortunately.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by qayxc on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:47PM (#25053121)

> Modern web is too heavy for the old dualcore i5, unfortunately.

It's a shame that the web has become this borderline unusable mess. I shouldn't need a quad-core machine with multiple gigabytes of RAM to just read the news online.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by lethologica on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @08:22PM (#25054507)

I have the same machine too, and I'm starting to notice this as well. It's absolutely ridiculous that LinkedIn for example makes my machine slow down to the extent it does.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by ellipticaldoor on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:09PM (#25051161)

I had that macbook and I was very happy with it. Now I have the latest i7 macbook air without nonsense touchbar and it's been a great replacement.

Now with the new model being even faster and without a fan things look even better for the future.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by p0rkbelly on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @07:44PM (#25054204)

I've been waiting to upgrade my 2015 for 5 years now! It's funny, when I bought it I only went with 8GB ram because I figured I would replace it in 2 years-ish. It has served me well, but, it's struggling with only 8GB these days. Now I'm ready for 32GB, because I'm planning on keeping the next one for another 5 years. Let's hope the 14" MackBook Pro in 2021 (with mini-LED secreen) rumors have legs to it. Hoping this is only the interim state of the 13" Pro and is due to really needing a different ARM cpu that is not available yet.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by christian008 on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:29PM (#25052223)

I am in the same boat. I love this Laptop, but Lightroom (CC) is really slow compared to how it runs on iOS. I would assume the new M1-based machines could run the iOS version of Lightroom almost out of the box.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by pgrote on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @02:57PM (#25050963)

>2015 Macbook Pro Retina 13"

How long will OS updates be distributed for it?

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by bromuro on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:07PM (#25051122)

Luckly Big Sur is supported! I just bought a second hand 2015 ... better than the 16” of the last year!

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by kccqzy on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:09PM (#25051162)

Since the current Big Sur release supports 2013 MacBook Pros, I'm guessing maybe another two or three years?

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by lavp on Friday November 13, 2020 @05:54AM (#25081043)

Same boat as you, but for some reason with the new MacOS update my computer kept getting the most random freezes to the point where I gave up and gave it a fresh Linux install. Haven’t looked back and I’m extremely happy with the work I’ve been putting into it.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by 0xFFFE on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:56PM (#25051792)

I returned my brand new top spec 2019 model to IT and took the 2015 model from their retired stock.

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by sesuximo on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @08:04PM (#25054354)

I have this generation air and a recent pro... call me crazy, but somehow the hard edges of the pro are super uncomfortable when the laptop is on my lap. Maybe an air vs pro thing rather than generation thing

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Re:Introducing the next generation of Mac by christiansakai on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:24PM (#25052148)

I have this machine as well, currently going slow, is it the OS? or do I need to open the machine and clean the fan?

I'm going to install Linux on it.

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