https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/18/business/media/new-york-p...
Is it possible that Mr. Greenwald is a better judge of whether or not there is a story here?
Then Greenwald parlayed having Snowden approach him into becoming a celebrity journalist. So Greenwald is a guy who takes a lot of credit for being in the right place at the right time and someone else handing him a scoop. Exactly the kind of person I wouldn't trust.
He has an outstanding reputation all around the world and is trusted by left leaning allies all over the world doing interviews with countless heads of states or opposition leaders.
He also was a reputable journalist even before the Snowden stuff do to work that investigated many of the evils of the Bush administration.
https://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/edward-snowden-nsa-le...
Whether you've misremembered it or you are accurately reporting Barton Gellman's claim it appears to be totally and utterly false. That's not super-surprising, it would be everywhere and in every story about Snowden's leak and exile if it were true.
"The Post just barely beat The Guardian in publishing the PRISM story on Thursday by about 20 minutes — "
"Gellman told The Huffington Post last week that he “started to hear some footsteps, so I had to move” on the PRISM story. There’s no question it was a race to publish, and although Gellman said he “would have been happier to have had a day or two” longer on the story, the Post had to move to get that scoop online before The Guardian."
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/snowden-an...
Snowden, who was one of Greenwald’s longtime readers, tells me in an e-mail. “Glenn tells the truth no matter the cost, and that matters.”
I think that's a fair assessment to make.
In this case, appealing to a Pulitzer-winning journalist's ability to judge the credibility and possible scope of a story is reasonable.
The Pulitzer-winning journalist has quit his publication because he could not provide a fact check on his assertions, a rather basic journalistic standard.
The Pulitzer-winning journalist supported the 2nd Iraq War.
The Pulitzer-winning journalist burned Reality Winner.
Completely and totally factually false. He had nothing to do with that story, it's editing and saw it for the first time when it was published.
>The Pulitzer-winning journalist supported the 2nd Iraq War.
Huh? I don't believe he was a journalist or a writer at all at the time of the Iraq war. You can't commit a failure of journalism when you're not publishing anything, surely. Maybe he supported it silently? Maybe he had a private opinion before following such stories closely as his calling? I dunno, I give up. It's still an utterly garbage claim however you look at it.
>The Pulitzer-winning journalist has quit his publication because he could not provide a fact check on his assertions, a rather basic journalistic standard.
The Pulitzer-winning journalist invited the editors to point out any factual error after they claimed factual errors existed without identifying them and the editors could not do so in any single way. They didn't even attempt it. [1]
Maybe Glenn hadn't yet published the correspondence with the editors so you didn't know your characterisation of who failed in fact checking was garbage. Reality Winner? yeah, The Intercept really didn't speak up about Glenn not being involved in that story in any way at all but if you followed it even a little bit you'd have known that. Maybe you didn't, which is fine, so being this forthright when you didn't, maybe not?
[1] https://greenwald.substack.com/p/emails-with-intercept-edito...
Glenn's point is this is just a bit of the usual Democrat sleaze. It's not "Worse than ..." $whatever, it may be a bit weak as a corruption story but it is definitely corruption involving Joe's family, and that isn't nothing and should be reported and Joe questioned. Forthrightly.
The difference comes from whether you think Trump is evil incarnate and all lines must be crossed to defeat him (the common liberal view) or whether you think he's a symptom of the ongoing unending corruption that must be stood up to, reported and condemned whenever it arises. Glenn takes the latter view. He's been explicit that the failure to report the story is a much bigger scandal than Hunter Biden being as bent as a banana, which he obviously is (You get paid that much a month while being a drug addict, for doing nothing ever in your life?) And he was obviously Joe's single biggest liability as a candidate. Yeah there's others, and all of those liablilites appear to be dwarfed by Trumps but Trump didn't lose with all those last time. It's hard to imagine Joe is more corrupt than Trump. Or even in the same ballpark.
So do you report it because it's a story or bury it and pretend it's a russian conspiracy because Trump is worse? Why are the likes of Brennan and Clapper getting involved on one side of that? Once you tell the lies it never stops. Glenn has amazing credibility for being principled including with people who have very different politics to himself. There's quite a few journalists who hate that he never compromised and due to his unusual path to it, never had to, was always his own master at times exactly like this.
I wish he wasn't a socialist but I'll stick up for Glenn anytime, he makes it really easy to do.
Think about it: if everything you don't like is the product of the dastardly Russians, what does that make you? A McCarthyist? What kind of liberal is that?
I'm confused as to how a business partner is a "random accuser".
> and the non-partisan actor you refer to is either a MAGA supporter running a laptop repair store or the President's personal lawyer.
I'm talking about Bobulinski. He has his own document, emails, etc.
> No one is willing to share your partisan delusions. Not here, not anywhere else.
This attempted rhetorical trick of "false consensus" is dumb and needs to stop. Lot's of people, including Glen Greenwald and Matt Taibbi see enough evidence to be worth investigating.
He very much does not, you just invented that.
> Lot's of people, including Glen Greenwald and Matt Taibbi
What a joke.
You are spewing nonsense and are in a serious case of denial. I don't know what all is in those emails, but Bobulinski certainly does have correspondence with the Bidens, and handed over several devices over to the FBI (which has been investigating Hunter Biden for financial crimes for over a year) .
Seriously, where are you getting your information about Bobulinski? because you've provided no backup for any of your assertions about him.
>non-partisan actor
I just saw that guy sit with Tucker Carlson for an hour and claim he has "Q level clearance". The dude is a hapless boomer QAnon type who has 0 evidence tying anything to the actual candidate, Joe Biden (as confirmed by the WSJ).
Also, here's Fox News confirming it was all bullshit: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-tony-bobulinsk...
If you have trouble looking in the mirror after voting for a clearly deficient human being, look elsewhere. This blatant and desperate mud slinging against a canidate's SON (even the mafia doesn't go after your family) is sad to watch. And I don't even know you.
Why would you think it's a QAnon thing? Q clearance has to do with nuclear weaponsand related materials[1]. Dude was an officer on a nuclear sub. Nothing related to QAnon.
> Also, here's Fox News confirming it was all bullshit
Again, your sources do not make the point you claim they do. Proof? No, but not bullshit either.
https://i.imgur.com/5O6iRyh.png
You. Aren't. Fooling. Anyone.
Why does everything have to be a Russian conspiracy. There was a front page article on HN the other day with people taking a Russian Death Ray seriously. Taking it seriously! Come on, people.
This is a cynical game and I'm sick of so many people playing it willingly.
Can't one be upset at all corruption? Trump's gets coverage plenty of places, wall-to-wall. Yet any mention of Biden gets dogpiled by comments like yours.
For the record, I'm a Bernie voter and reluctant Biden voter.
You? The NYT and WaPo? Sure doesn't sound like it.
"Yeah but what happens if Biden commits theoretical crimes in the future? What then?"
Great point.
Biden's gonna win, most likely, will any pushback against our government be met with "what about Trump" for 4 years?
Are you joking? Do you think any of us even know who Hunter Biden is if it's not for the dirty efforts of the Trump campaign to drag him through the mud?
- No one in the Biden campaign has denied the laptop belonged to Hunter or the authenticity of the emails
- Hunter's lawyers asked for the laptop back
- The FBI confirmed that it has possession of Hunter Biden's laptop
- FBI and DOJ agree that the laptop and emails were not a part of a Russian disinformation campaign.[1]
[1]https://twitter.com/SeanLangille/status/1318673941624426497
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/politics/russian-hacke...
The photos most likely from an iCloud hack. The FBI has not made ANY claims on the content of the laptop they have, nor has the Biden campaign. I don't know where you are getting your (mis)infomation from, but I dont really care either.
EDIT: also, I linked to a Fox News reporter talking about the FBI and DOJ admitting they have no reason to think this is a Russian disinformation campaign.
[1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/24/hunter-bid... [2]https://twitter.com/adamhousley/status/1317319606126604288
Russian Intel hacked Burisma's emails, those same emails are now part of a public smear campaign. THEY ARE THE SAME EMAILS. What you meant to say is "there is no evidence that any of these hacked materials (emails, photos) came from a laptop in Delaware. Because there isn't.
> And respectable journalist Adam Housley
Never heard of him.
> also, I linked to a Fox News reporter
Just stop. This is you cheering on your team like it's Sunday football. And no one that isn't already on your team is buying it.
I've already provided you with plenty evidence. Here on a discussion forum you are free to pretend that evidence doesn't exist, but if that's going to be your choice then I see no further point in engaging with you. Needless to say, the Bidens will not be so free to ignore evidence should this ever get to court.
> Just stop. This is you cheering on your team like it's Sunday football. And no one that isn't already on your team is buying it.
Please provide me with evidence that claim regarding FBI and DOJ statements about the laptop were false.
You are the one under the delusion that any source you don't like must be lying. I don't give my full trust to any media source. I've cited from a number of difference sources, not just "right-wing" media. You have provided all of two links, neither of which make the point you were attempting to argue.
> And no one that isn't already on your team is buying it.
Again with the dumb rhetoric. Unless your definition of my "team" is "those who think there is credible evidence of Biden corruption" (which would be a useless tautology) this statement is obviously false. The only reason you could come to that conclusion is if you are in such an information bubble you have no idea what people actually think.
You've provided a theory and evidence that supports a theory ("The FBI has a laptop!"), but proves nothing. This theory helps people continue their delusion that Trump isn't a criminal, or that Hillary or Biden or whomever is somehow worse. You seem to be confused that outside your Fox News cult people don't buy it.
Thank god for that.
How do you rationalize this series of events piling on top of each other? https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/jkjeib/how_a_fake...
What about the material looks authentic to you?
I'm afraid that's where our politics are at.
However, the contents of the laptop (emails and pictures — at least some of them) were corroborated by multiple sources. Their timings agree with the events of Ukraine affair, which led to Trump’s impeachment proceedings. I can’t say anything about the laptop; perhaps it was planted by the Russian intelligence or Trump campaign spinners. However, its contents looks real to me.
Seriously, it has been over four years since Clinton and the Podesta emails. How can anyone still be this naive?
We've got billion-dollar Presidential campaigns and 100M-dollar senate campaigns, but an office floor full of internet trolls are the ones swinging the balance of power in our country? Who's naive? Take some responsibility -- if we suck, that's on us.
If I think that's fishy, I'm desperate and gullible?
It's going nowhere, agreed, most blatant corruption goes nowhere. But I don't have to like it or defend it.
It now sounds like the emails have been digitally authenticated by an outside firm: https://amp.dailycaller.com/2020/10/29/cybersecurity-expert-.... That is, they confirmed that contents of the emails match is contained in Gmail's servers.
And what evidence is there that the DNC emails were in anyway inauthentic?
Protecting their worldview depends on it.
The 64 page article NBC is talking about here is unrelated.
Also, Hunter's emails and photos were circulated in Ukraine last year to the highest bidder.
https://time.com/5902557/hunter-biden-rudy-giuliani-ukraine/
Someone finally paid for them and this is the way they are being laundered.
And no one is buying it.
I can't speak for Giuliani, and I agree that his involvement in this is strange, but NYP, Daily Caller, and National Pulse have all offered to share the contents of the drive with other journalists. I don't know to what extent they have been taken up on it.
> The Daily Caller (an extension of the Trump campaign) isn't to be trusted. No rational person would expect this to prove anything.
To assume that the news agencies that ran with the Steele dossier or the "Fine People" hoax have some fundamentally higher standard of journalistic standards than smaller right-wing publications is a bit rich. But I fully realize you wouldn't trust them directly. The point is that it's not just the reputation of these outlets now, but people without a partisan axe to grind like Robert Graham[1] and Tony Bobulinski who are providing evidence for the authenticity of the emails recovered.
> Also, Hunter's emails and photos were circulated in Ukraine last year to the highest bidder.
Irrelevant. All evidence so far points to the laptop (which is genuinely Hunter Biden's) being the source of these emails. The DOJ has already acknowledged that it received (what I believe is the original) laptop drive, and they have been pursuing an active criminal investigation against Hunter since last year. The DOJ, State Department, and DNI all have said there is no evidence of foreign involvement, and even a Washington Post journalist has acknowledged that this likely isn't the result of foreign interference.
> And no one is buying it.
Wishful thinking.
They are offering to share the cherry-picked communications meant to smear someone, are you actually surprised real journalists aren't taking the bait? If you actually care, ask yourself why Giuliani hasn't shared the entire drive with anyone besides far-right media dedicated to helping Trump get reelected.
> To assume that
1. Nothing from the dossier has been disproven. Many things have been corroborated.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospective
2. Buzzfeed isn't the NYT. You confuse the two, I dont know why.
> Irrelevant
Lol. The origins of the data was a hack of Hunter Biden's iCloud (photos) and a GRU hack of Burisma (emails), the laptop cover story is laughable, and the best you can muster is "Irrelevant".
What a joke.
Yes, Russia engaged in a hacking operation, and seemed to favor Trump over Hillary. That's hardly sensational. None of the sensational claims alleging conspiracy or blackmail have been supported despite years of investigation, and at least one claim was ruled innacurate/misleading in court[1]. One of the main sources was also identified as a potential national security risk [2]
> 2. Buzzfeed isn't the NYT. You confuse the two, I don't know why.
All mainstream news outlets, including the NYT, considered the dossier worth reporting even without verification. Let's not forget that this fundamentally started as a political opposition research document.
That the "lack of verification" with regard to Hunter's laptop would somehow be a justification for not reporting on it at all is a completely hypocritical stance, especially as additional news has come up (Hunter Biden former business partner Devin Archer agreeing to work with FBI, Tony Bobulinski working with the FBI, the verification of at least one email by a 3rd party security firm, etc.).
> Lol. The origins of the data was a hack of Hunter Biden's iCloud (photos) and a GRU hack of Burisma (emails), the laptop cover story is laughable, and the best you can muster is "Irrelevant".
I explained why it was irrelevant. If you have evidence that links that hack to the laptop hard drive contents, then I suggest you share them with the FBI. Otherwise, your reading comprehension needs some serious improvement.
[1]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-08/billionai... [2]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-news-media-s-ste...
As said, not disproven.
> One of the main sources was also identified as a potential national security risk
The self-id'd source (Steele never confirmed) of mafia and spy secrets has a shady past. I'm shocked.
> considered the dossier worth reporting even without verification
The author was/is known as the single best source of Russian intelligence ops in the western world (the ex-head of MI6 in Russia). It was a raw intel doc never meant to be 100% accurate, but according to him "at least 90%".
> Let's not forget that this fundamentally started as a political opposition research document.
Yes, by Republicans terrified of a compromised criminal taking over their party.
> If you have evidence that links that hack to the laptop hard drive contents, then I suggest you share them with the FBI. Otherwise, your reading comprehension needs some serious improvement.
I can only assume you are trolling now. There is 0 evidence any of the leaked emails are from a laptop. It was reported a year ago that Burisma's emails were hacked and in circulation. The mental gymnastics you need to perform to not only think they aren't the same set of emails, but this paper-thin laughable cover story about a laptop in Delaware from a blind-shopkeep with 0 independent verification is just stunning to me.
The only answer is that you are smart enough to know this is all ridiculous, but are holding on to it anyways. Dissonance is a hell of a drug.
> As said, not disproven.
Those are some impressive gymnastics. Allow me to quote the NYT from this year:
"The Steele dossier was deeply flawed. For example, it included a claim that Mr. Trump’s former lawyer Michael D. Cohen had met with a Russian intelligence officer in Prague to discuss collusion with the campaign. The report by the special counsel who took over the Russia investigation, Robert S. Mueller III, found that Mr. Cohen never traveled to Prague."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/25/us/politics/igor-danchenk...
You are making assertions about the dossier that are demonstrably false and defending a document which is now rightly treated cautiously at best by most mainstream media.
But the reason I bring up the dossier now is that, despite it's salacious, unverified claims and (initially) unkown source, mainstream media outlets all felt it was perfectly reasonable to report on it. Yet, when it comes to Hunter Biden's laptop (which the FBI publicly stated they have in their possession) suddenly it would be improper to even acknowledge it's existence or the implications of its contents.
> Yes, by Republicans terrified of a compromised criminal taking over their party.
Have you always thought of Republicans as really honest and above board people, or are you only finding "a strange new respect" for them when they do something you approve of?
> There is 0 evidence any of the leaked emails are from a laptop.
Perhaps you are having trouble comprehending. Let me try one more time:
- The FBI admits they have Hunter Biden's laptop in their possession [1]
- Both the FBI and DOJ assert there is no reason to believe this is part of a Russian disinformation campaign [1]
- Hunter's lawyers asked for the laptop back from the repair shop [2]
- Recipients of some of the emails have already confirmed they came from Hunter (see interview with Tony Bobulinski)
- This is not the first time that Hunter has left a laptop somewhere [3]
- No one associated with the Bidens has ever claimed that the laptop/emails did not belong to Hunter [3]
- The Washington Post has acknowledged that this likely isn't a foreign intelligence operation [4]
Certainly there are reasons to be skeptical, and no crime by Joe Biden has been proven yet (though his son will probably go to jail for FARA violations at least). But your position is frankly untenable and strikes me as willful ignorance.
[1] https://twitter.com/SeanLangille/status/1318673941624426497 [2] https://twitter.com/adamhousley/status/1317319606126604288 [3] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/here-s-what-h... [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/24/hunter-bid...
In your mind, it's all politics and you're just standing up for your side's dirty tricks against the other side's dirty tricks.
Except you are wrong. The laptop story is an obvious cover, and the dossier was never meant to be public. It was given to the FBI as a matter of national security (Steele was genuinely worried the US was about to elect a dangerously-compromised criminal) then leaked post-election because the FBI sat on it.
> Let me try one more time:
Not a single point you listed is anything beyond circumstantial evidence. There is "a" laptop. The contents have been been confirmed by anyone at the FBI or by Biden himself. You are relying on wikileaks-esk "drops" from political operatives seeking a Trump re-election. You are being fooled, but you are asking to be fooled.
It is quite likely that someone orchestrated this for maximum impact, but for now these emails looks as authentic as any other leak in the last decade.
That's the game.
If the CIA managed to stop that hacking before it happened no journalist would have cried.
If the journalist had participated in the hacking they would be criminally responsible.
And if the journalist obtain proof of relevant stories (especially related to corruption in politics) they will publish them.
There has never been a poisonous tree standard in journalism.
No that's the active measures of a spy agency.
I would argue that this has very easily exploited consequences: if you want something to be ignore just hire some hacker to surgically hack parts of that information. Not enough to be criminal, and you are safe from the court of public opinion.
Referring to that as journalism is an insult to actual journalists.
To date, the only on the public record (in an interview, not testimony) statements are in favor of the allegations and evidence being true. The Biden’s have not public denied any of it. They, with the assistance of the media, simple delay and deflect.
The WSJ, while their own op-ed page was trying to make the story real, thoroughly broke down and discredited all aspects of this story. There is no tie to Joe Biden at all.
Why are you claiming otherwise with a straight face?
All they claimed was that there was no clear evidence in Bobulinski's text messages that Joe Biden was involved (though the "big guy" phrasing refering to Joe was not proved one way or the other).
It does not discredit the emails, nor Bobulinski's own testimony. It's actually just a pretty reasonable and reporting of the information they had available.
[1]https://www.wsj.com/articles/hunter-bidens-ex-business-partn...
Just say "no evidence".
> (though the "big guy" phrasing refering to Joe was not proved one way or the other).
Pizzagate all over again. "As long as some words mean other words than we have a full blown, fully-proven scandal!"
Again, you aren't fooling anyone that isn't volunteering to be fooled so their worldview can be protected. The definition of a waste of time.
The computer repair shop thing is laughable, but that doesn't mean the obvious conclusion is dastardly russians did it.. Hunter doesn't look like a model in operational security, any number of motivated people could have hacked him. Or maybe it was entirely made up to get the underlying scandal back in the news.
It's unsubstantiated, at best:
"However, the Daily Caller News Foundation could not confirm the accuracy of this figure, as there is no evidence the payments from Rosemont Seneca Bohai to Hunter Biden are necessarily for his work with Burisma."
https://checkyourfact.com/2019/10/17/fact-check-hunter-biden...
Why repeat something with full confidence when you have no idea if it's actually true or not (because no one does) ?
Snowden was tightly in contact with these journalists and showed them undoubtable proof that he did indeed work with the NSA. This story as I understand it is not even close to the level of verification that the Snowden story had.
The Hunter Biden emails are fake? or that they are real, but Giuliani got them from Russian agents?
Or that they are real, but "the big guy" doesn't refer to Joe Biden?
Or that they are real, but Hunter Biden was just saying shit, and Joe didn't actually do any of these things?
Any but the last claim seems likely false to me, pretty hilarious to see so many on the thread arguing otherwise.
I think it’s a dumb reason to not vote for Biden, but I find the cognitive dissonance with which this story is being treated sorta astonishing.
Without the context, it's not being given to the reader to judge why this is a story, the real provonance of the maguffin-laptop, if it really has any impact in the Biden vs Trump question or is just noise...
Moreover I feel like this would be a bad precedent. Suppose Biden wins now and Trump runs again in 2024, I personally would not like a similar grace being offered to him (with no evidence of interference).
That's not restricted to journalism, either.
Greenwald may be a great journalist but that doesn't mean his word is now taken on faith alone.
> We have the greatest respect for the journalist Glenn Greenwald used to be, and we remain proud of much of the work we did with him over the past six years. It is Glenn who has strayed from his original journalistic roots, not The Intercept.
https://theintercept.com/2020/10/29/glenn-greenwald-resigns-...
BTW, the DKIM signature on at least one of the emails has been verified:
https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim
EDIT: OK, rather than downvoting, which isn't going to change my mind, why don't you help address his points? If you change my mind, I'll go try to change other people's minds.
"The Hunter Biden documents have at least as much verification as those other archives [the Panama Papers, Wikileaks war logs, Podesta / DNC emails from 2016] that were widely reported. There are sources in the email chains who have verified that the published emails are accurate. The archive contains private photos and videos of Hunter whose authenticity is not in doubt. A former business partner of Hunter has stated, unequivocally and on the record, that not only are the emails authentic but they describe events accurately, including proposed participation by the former Vice President in at least one deal Hunter and Jim Biden were pursuing in China. And, most importantly of all, neither Hunter Biden nor the Biden campaign has even suggested, let alone claimed, that a single email or text is fake."
Add to that that at least one email has had its DKIM signature verified (see the link above).
I hate Trump and think a second term would be an unmitigated disaster for our democracy. Even if the worst of the allegations or insinuations were true I think Biden would be better for our country than Trump. If I were an editor of a newspaper, I'd certainly think twice before publishing something like this, even if I thought they were accurate.
But I would never throw shade on a fellow journalist for writing something like this. And as a voter, if I'm going to choose the lesser of two evils, I want to know just how evil the lesser one is.
The closest they came to suggesting that the e-mails were not authentic were these two points, addressing Greenwald: "You spend quite a bit of the piece explaining why authentication efforts have been more than sufficient to satisfy any reasonable requirement of verification, but a key reason news organizations have cited for their lack of full confidence in the documents is their inability to access the hard drive; your draft does not mention that. It is hard to report on and authenticate an archive you do not possess."
"And I do think you should treat the origin story of the hard drive – that it came from the Delaware repair store – with a bit more skepticism. It’s true that nothing has emerged yet to significantly undermine it, but it remains a very strange story surrounded by many unanswered questions."
Reading the editor feedback as a whole, I think they were totally fine with Greenwald claiming that the released e-mails are authentic.
In my opinion this is weak reasoning and it only serves to allow people to cement their minority opinions more. Regardless of whether they're correct or not.
There's no inherent reason the colleagues are more likely to be correct.
This is the culture / ideology that has taken over a large part of the "news" industry
It is very much regressive and has all the same kind of tribal dogma that fueled rhetoric that aligns nicely with those dark times where scientists where executed for daring to refute the dogma of the majority
While we are not physically executing people today, cancel culture is emotionally, socially, and virtually executing anyone that dares to disagree with their tribe
Down with peer-reviewed journals! We should just take scientists on their word that they're operating professionally!
Well at least that is not what is SUPPOSE to do.
Peer review is about reviewing the science, not the charter of the scientists.
science has a real problem today because it is becoming less about the raw science and more about who is doing the science and if they have the "correct" political or other opinions
Sensationalism because he uncovered evidence of mass surveillance. Who is a better journalist?
Greenwald is the de facto leader of this movement.
Greenwald's emphasis here is completely unplaced. It is once again an attempt to make things seem equal. Unsubstantiated stories like this get no news time - and yet the fact that the opposite is undeniably true - Trump's children have not only been actively involved in the administration but have been coordinating deals for Trump's businesses, making millions of dollars, and even receiving international quid pro quo such as Chinese patent approvals - is ignored and treated as nothing. If Trump is anything less than an utter disaster, it's seen as a success. If the democratic nominee (Biden or Clinton before him) does anything less than perfect, it dominates the news cycle for weeks.
Part of it getting past scrutiny, is playing on the assumption that people will cheat.
I mean sure, but this stupidly? After Trump used taxpayer money to stay at his hotels publicly?
Side note: NBC broke a story broke a few hours ago showing that this was a case of false news.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-...
The contents of the laptop are not "fake news." At least one email has had its DKIM signature verified. Multiple people who were copied on the emails have verified their authenticity. The pictures and videos of Hunter Biden on the laptop speak for themselves.
It is entirely possible that the story of how the laptop was acquired is at least partially fake, but there's no actual evidence of that, and some evidence pointing the other way - why would Biden's lawyer ask the computer shop owner for the laptop if he didn't have it, and Biden if Biden thought he didn't have it?
This story is truly shocking to me, not so much for the allegations of corruption, which are neither surprising nor interesting, but for the willful blindness of so many very smart people who are using a lot of brainpower to rationalize it away.
It is not shocking that there are so many useful idiots around the world (and here) that are willing to keep talking up this obvious disinformation. What is shocking is how lazy they are and how stupid they seem to think the rest of us are.
The goalposts keep moving on this story, which has already been verified far beyond most of the scandals reported by the press in recent years.
None of the counternarrative even makes any sense. It’s all fake! Well, here’s a zillion extremely private photos of Hunter Biden. Where did they came from if it’s not his laptop? The emails are fake! Well, here’s some of the correspondents verifying the authenticity of the emails - which is all the verification usually required. Where’s the DKIM signatures! Well, here’s one that was verified. Some of them are fake! Okay. Has anyone ever applied this level of skepticism to any other story that has ever come out?
Why is it even surprising to anyone that this story would be true? Nobody disputes that Hunter Biden was paid enormous sums of money over the years despite his character and qualifications, and it’s all been widely reported. What did anyone think was going on there? How do people think high-level politicians and their families are leaving office so much richer than they came into it? The denials are almost shockingly naive - “we looked at Joe Biden’s financial disclosures and this isn’t there.” Well, gee, what a shocker he didn’t lay out grey area business dealings for the world to see - nobody does. Anyone who knows a drug addict can hear the ring of truth in Hunter’s self-martrying texts about how Joe makes him give him half his income.
How is it rational to conclude that everything contrary to the favored narrative must be disinformation propagated by highly competent operatives of a has-been midrate regional mafia state power with absolutely no evidence? How does that not reek of the disinformation long favored by the US “intelligence community”?
The complaints about the provenance are one thing, but it’s hard to explain why the FBI subpoenaed the laptop from the store owner, or why Biden’s lawyer tried to get it back. And what does it matter if the information is true, anyway?
The emails that have been verified are bush league vague messages that lack even verification that they went anywhere but straight to the spam folder. Where are the responses indicating the messages were read? Where is the DKIM on any of the emails that suggest impropriety? Oh yeah, you don't have any. No one is moving goalposts, we are clearly stating that you haven't made any forward progress at all and are nowhere near scoring any points.
The best part of all of this is that you and all of the other little Trumpkins have wasted so much social capital pimping these dumb conspiracy theories that the rest of us can easily ignore you going forward. As unpleasant as the past four years have been, one minor upside to the experience is that it revealed many of the truly deplorable among us.
This is the link verifying the “opportunities” email. It also explains DKIM issues with other emails.
https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/hunter-dkim
I am truly having trouble understanding how this is a conspiracy theory. The alternative seems to require a massive conspiracy involving foreign intelligence agencies planting false information with true information - I mean, you don’t doubt the pictures, right? Moreover, the “false” information is not anything groundbreaking, it’s almost all the same information already reported by mainstream outlets with a few new bits added. And they somehow convinced other correspondents on the emails to come forward and speak lies? publicly. How is this not conspiratorial thinking?
Do you approach Trump stories with the same level of skepticism? For example, how do we know the tax returns are real? Absolutely nobody has confirmed them except anonymous sources speaking to the NYT.
I could easily send you an email from my gmail account asking if you have managed to get burn all of the films Epstein made of you and those little kids on his island. It too would have a valid DKIM signature. Now show me the follow up from Hunter, or even proof the message was actually seen by him. If an actual hard drive was possessed as claimed then this would be trivial. The fact that it is not available is damning in this case. As has been noted repeatedly in this case an equally likely source of this data is an iCloud hack for some pics and the known hack of Burisma a while back. Mix in some fake messages and then add useful idiots who are willing to believe anything if it supports their cause.
Thankfully this story will return to obscurity along with the partisan hacks trying to push it. It was a lame attempt at an 'October surprise', it was executed poorly, and thankfully this time the means of viral distribution of same was limited while everyone looked into the story and then had a good laugh.
Would he win a Pulitzer for a piece he wrote entirely by himself? We don’t know. But the emails he released today show him objecting to exactly this process. The editor gave him a number of suggested improvements and clarifications, and he balked.
At this point, 4 days from the election, you should be especially skeptical of extraordinary claims without proof.
No he didn't - where did that come from? He claimed the mail had been intercepted, someone had ripped open the parcel in transit and stolen the documents, and that the courier firm had even shown them pictures of the ripped-open package. He then made a series of remarkably precise claims about their interaction with the courier, the search the courier firm mounted to try and find the stolen documents and so on.
According to sibling comments this story was now confirmed in its entirety by UPS.
Ironically, I learned what Tucker Carlson said by reading the Guardian. Their top story yesterday (in terms of views) was something like "Tucker Carlson mocked after claiming evidence was lost in the mail". Obviously the Guardian, and those people who mocked him or lied about his claims now look very foolish and naive indeed, because his claims have been verified in their entirety by the courier firm themselves. The real story here is that UPS has been corrupted by the same kinds of win-at-any-cost leftists who blocked the story at Twitter and other places: they are so desperate for this to go away that they're actually destroying their own customer's valuables in transit. In the USA every line of communication is being shut down by these radicals, even postal mail.
What's more likely: that Tucker is full of shit and never had the kind of story he claims he did, or that a network of win-at-any-cost leftists have infiltrated the UPS and were lying in wait to kill this story and any others like in before the election?
The lengths people will go to find a conspiracy when there's a simpler explanation will always baffle me
So yeah, there's stuff they're not going to air.
> that a network of win-at-any-cost leftists have infiltrated the UPS
You mean the Teamsters?
Run what story? Fox news has been covering the hard drive since it was released.
And yes, no concrete evidence of wrong doing, but if you read Glenn's email, he clearly states that "something smells rotten" and the editors response is "we won't even allow pointed questions about Biden".
Glenn is offering the Biden camp more benefit of the doubt than the MSM has offered Trump when random allegations arise.
That's the issue - the MSM holds up "journalistic integrity" when it suits their political candidate. That's not integrity at all. That's just corruption of the what journalism is supposed to be.
Yet the tables are turned here and suddenly they have concerns about disinformation? To the point they won't even allow it to be discussed?
That's what impresses me about Greenwald and Taibbi. They both hate Trump. But they aren't willing to put their journalistic ethics aside because of it.
This is exactly why I decided to sub for Greenwald for $5/month on Substack.
This isn't quite accurate. Rudy Giuliani went to Fox news before it was released, and they declined to take it. After it was released, they of course had no choice but to report it.
Their talking heads on the other hand...
Plausible motive for the thief could have been risk assessment for the documents.
The DOJ has acknowledged that it has had a criminal investigation into Hunter Biden "and associates" for money laundering since 2019, and there is evidence and a credible witness that the Biden's (including Joe Biden) were involved in a bribery scheme with foreign governments.
Just start here: https://abc3340.com/amp/news/nation-world/tony-bobulinksi-i-...
Even Fox News wouldn't run the story because it wasn't supported by facts.
And last I heard, there still has been no concrete evidence of wrongdoing. Tucker Carlson claims that his evidence "got lost in the mail". In the age of the internet, they didn't snap any photos of this so-called proof?
There is no "there" there. Just a bunch of internet sleuths with MS paint red circles and theories about deep states. And your comment falls into this category.