News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by benrbray on Saturday September 26, 2020 @01:10PM (#24600380)
More importantly, stop showing me "Sign Up" buttons if I'm already logged in! And when I'm logged out, don't hide the "Sign In" button from me!

I can never remember if it's https://www.google.com/drive/ or https://drive.google.com/. For the longest time, the first link was just a splash advertisement for Drive with a big "Sign Up" button, and no clear way to actually get to my drive folder. GitHub has a similar issue, as do countless other websites that I use on a daily basis.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by reaperducer on Saturday September 26, 2020 @03:06PM (#24601311)
And when I'm logged out, don't hide the "Sign In" button from me!

Digital Ocean is guilty of this. If you're on a phone, or a tablet, or any browser with a window narrower than about 700px, the page is so obsessed with selling Digital Ocean that in order for an existing customer to use an account you've already paid for, you have to click the hamburger menu, and then scroll... scroll... scroll... all the way down to the bottom of 75 options to find a sign-in button.

For a company that brands itself as being tech-forward and people-friendly, Digital Ocean should know better.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by dkersten on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:25PM (#24601825)
I love Digital Ocean, but this annoys me so much. If anyone from DO sees this, please fix this crap!
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by bredren on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:41PM (#24601937)
We need an extension in the meantime.

This is bad at even at 1000px. That’s 1/3rd of an xdr pro display and my most common window width now.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by trevyn on Saturday September 26, 2020 @11:42PM (#24604074)
uBlock Origin, right-click, "Block element".

I thought it was just an ad blocker, but now I realize it's a "whatever DOM element I dislike" blocker.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by thih9 on Sunday September 27, 2020 @03:11AM (#24604844)
This works unless the css classes or HTML structure change frequently.

I think e.g. Facebook does that and I’ve been unable to block annoying elements there.

Does anyone know how to make it work in that scenario?

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by zelphirkalt on Sunday September 27, 2020 @03:52AM (#24605004)
Even worse with random CSS class names and random ids on many websites. Some of the JS dev crowd think it to be a good idea to have class names random generated. I consider it to be a kind of dark pattern by now.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by trevyn on Sunday September 27, 2020 @04:22AM (#24605094)
Some CSS-in-JS libraries will create a hash of the underlying CSS and use that as the class name. So not quite random, and should remain consistent if the underlying CSS hasn't changed.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by SaltyBackendGuy on Sunday September 27, 2020 @12:34PM (#24607886)
Yeah it's terrible. The JS framework we use hijacks the ID property with some internal ID which is quite annoying in some cases.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by itsCarton on Saturday September 26, 2020 @07:11PM (#24602873)
With DO, I've noticed that you can enter login credentials into the sign up screen and it works to authenticate you if you have an existing account.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by grawprog on Saturday September 26, 2020 @09:57PM (#24603592)
How hard would it be for DO to change the sign up button to 'Sign up/Login'? Seems like an utterly trivial change to make for something that's completely possible, but totally hidden, while the 'visible' solution is extremely aggravating.

That's a textbook example of poor UI.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by bobthepanda on Sunday September 27, 2020 @03:31AM (#24604917)
I've seen a lot of rhetoric, even on HN, that frontend/webdev is "not that hard", that frontend/webdev engineers are doing busy work to justify their jobs, etc. And then people with this mentality go to their jobs, they subconsciously or overtly promote these views in their workplaces, people who are good at this stuff try to avoid toxic workplaces that undervalue them rhetorically or with actual compensation, and then you wind up with "easily" fixable things like this and the toxic people blame the frontend engineers who are willing to stay in environments like this.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by Dahoon on Saturday September 26, 2020 @03:53PM (#24601632)
A phone with less than 700px width in 2020? The sites I work with have small screens at around 1000-1200 px width. 700 is more like a wap feature phone..
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by reaperducer on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:18PM (#24601781)
A phone with less than 700px width in 2020?

On a mobile device, web display pixels (logical pixels) are not the same as physical pixels.

An iPhone SE's logical width is 320px.

An iPhone 8 is 375px.

An iPhone 8 Plus is 414 px.

An iPad is 768px.

700 is more like a wap feature phone

WAP phones were closer to 180px. I know because I built local WAP news and weather sites for them. Squeezing color radar maps into 180px was... interesting.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by rriepe on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:46PM (#24601975)
> An iPhone SE's logical width is 320px.

I always forget about this one. Thanks for ruining my afternoon.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by cocire on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:07PM (#24602126)
I love my iPhone SE since I can easily use it one-handed without worrying about dropping a $1,000 electronic device
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by rriepe on Saturday September 26, 2020 @09:09PM (#24603408)
It's a great phone. I'm just building a thing that needs to support it, and I was treating 380px as the lower end of things.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by tomc1985 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:57PM (#24602494)
I did too, but with battery health at 91% I'd get maybe an hour of heavy use (and 12hr of light use) before having to charge it
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by benrbray on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:22PM (#24601798)
Even on desktop I always have two windows open side-by-side. Normally it's VS Code and Chrome, so I can reference documentation while coding, or take Markdown notes while reading. Most websites seem not to be designed for this use case, which is a shame since the solution is usually setting min-width to a smaller value.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by Zak on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:09PM (#24602569)
Multi-display or a huge single display and a cooperate window manager is a real game changer for productivity... unless of course "desktop" actually means a laptop used away from a desk.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by asalahli on Saturday September 26, 2020 @03:58PM (#24601658)
iPhone SE came out in 2016 and has a resolution of 640x1136. I still use it.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by ehsanu1 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:14PM (#24601758)
Css width is probably 320px on that too. Css pixels are not screen pixels.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by zelphirkalt on Sunday September 27, 2020 @03:58AM (#24605027)
Can anyone explain this? Why are these pixels not the same as physical pixels, like I asume to be on a computer screen?
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by reificator on Sunday September 27, 2020 @05:41AM (#24605431)
Because after a short lived attempt to educate uninterested web developers about px vs em vs.... browsers decided the easiest way forward was to give up and lie.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by ehsanu1 on Sunday September 27, 2020 @04:17AM (#24605082)
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by zelphirkalt on Sunday September 27, 2020 @11:35AM (#24607404)
No, I meant: Explain why pixels on smart phones are not physical pixels, as I would expect them to be. Why does a phone need to act differently, kind of dishonest about its pixels?
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by reificator on Monday September 28, 2020 @03:28AM (#24613935)
> Explain why pixels on smart phones are not physical pixels, as I would expect them to be. Why does a phone need to act differently, kind of dishonest about its pixels?

The phone is not acting differently. The phone is acting according to the specification, which is that a pixel is 1/96th of an inch. This happens on all devices, not just phones.

From the spec:

> The absolute length units are fixed in relation to each other and anchored to some physical measurement. They are mainly useful when the output environment is known. The absolute units consist of the physical units (in, cm, mm, pt, pc, Q) and the visual angle unit (px):

> 1in = 2.54cm = 96px

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Glossary/CSS_pixel

https://drafts.csswg.org/css-values-3/#absolute-lengths

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by ako on Sunday September 27, 2020 @11:51AM (#24607542)
Because it ensures a page is useable on a mobile phone, even if the author didn’t take mobile into account: the screen can accommodate for about as much information as a regular 320px computer screen. If you try to use every pixel as you would on a regular screen it would be illegible for most users.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by cocire on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:08PM (#24602134)
The newer generation of the SE came out this year (2020) and works great too
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by paco3346 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @01:35PM (#24600587)
This one drives me up a wall. I always find myself thinking "hey jerk I'm already a paying customer where the f is MY button?"
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by mrweasel on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:16PM (#24600909)
This annoys me to no end with product like Lastpass. Why the hell is the "Sign Up" more prominent than the "Sign In/Login" button. I'm going to be signing in every single day, I'm only signing up once.

No one ever opted to not sign up for a service because link wasn't visible enough. If I'm sufficiently interested to want to pay, then I can find the sign up link.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by dmd on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:30PM (#24601019)
> No one ever opted to not sign up for a service because link wasn't visible enough.

I sure hope that’s sarcasm... lack of a clear obvious signup path is literally the number one funnel exit.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by randycupertino on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:44PM (#24601963)
> Why the hell is the "Sign Up" more prominent than the "Sign In/Login" button. I'm going to be signing in every single day, I'm only signing up once.

Agree! imo is just a blatant reminder that they care more about getting new customers than servicing their existing customers.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by xmprt on Saturday September 26, 2020 @11:43PM (#24604075)
The worst offender of this is Streamlabs. When I go to the homepage (even if I've already logged in on the same browser), I see this: https://streamlabs.com/

In order to go to my actual dashboard, I have to click on "Login" > "Login with Twitch" and finally arrive at the dashboard which features prominent banners to upsell you on their premium offerings.

And if you accidentally click "Download" because that's the biggest button on the screen then you'll automatically download the application so make sure you're ready to go to your downloads list and cancel that.

I just gave up and started using a combination of OBS (open source) and StreamElements.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by tchalla on Saturday September 26, 2020 @05:34PM (#24602350)
Let’s assume that LastPass has thought this through clearly. Would it be possible that they place more emphasis on Sign Up rather than Log In user due to some internal metric which they use to benchmark their service? I’m not saying the metric is right. I’m wondering why they chose to do so.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by srtjstjsj on Saturday September 26, 2020 @07:58PM (#24603119)
Existing customers already paid so they don't matter.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by edoceo on Saturday September 26, 2020 @01:12PM (#24600396)
Reddit too, it's like they don't expect users to come back. Perhaps another example of managers chasing the wrong metrics
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by hinkley on Saturday September 26, 2020 @01:22PM (#24600486)
We’ve been dealing with this for decades at least.

Employee retention can often cost much less than hiring and training a replacement, but nobody worries about that until the problem is too big to shrug off.

I don’t know where they expect this infinite pool of new users is coming from at this point.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by edoceo on Saturday September 26, 2020 @01:26PM (#24600513)
My theory is it's just alt accounts for trolls or "unsavory" content (eg: adult, politics, WSB)
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by vezycash on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:16PM (#24602615)
About a month ago, reddit sent me an email to "verify my account" - an account I've had for years. I clicked the link to activate it only for another "verify your account" email to appear a few weeks later which I promptly deleted.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by Zenbit_UX on Monday September 28, 2020 @09:24AM (#24616358)
I think part of it is individuals with mainstream browser settings thinking that because Chrome and reddit remember them every time due to the lack of privacy oriented settings on their system that that happens to everyone. They might have to hit login once every few months and forget what it's like.

Others get so caught up in their own usage habit that they forget others don't want to be prompted to login when they hit reply to a comment (which causes a page reload and they lose their place in the comments) but would rather login up front before commenting.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by amelius on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:03PM (#24600800)
> I can never remember if it's https://www.google.com/drive/ or https://drive.google.com/.

I can never remember if my stuff is in Google Drive or Google Docs.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by itisit on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:36PM (#24601060)
Google Drive. All G Suite apps store files there. A particular G Suite app's file list will only show files from your Google Drive that are editable/viewable by that particular app.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by erikig on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:22PM (#24600951)
It is even more confusing on mobile :(

When I have a .docx file on Google Drive - will I need the Google Drive App , the Google Docs app or should I just get the Microsoft Word mobile app?

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by harshitaneja on Sunday September 27, 2020 @12:13AM (#24604179)
Google drive app if you just want to manage your data in the drive you have. Google docs if you wish to edit the file. Also google docs if you just want to work with doc files as google docs will list all previously edited files in the app.

Will we ask the question do I need Word if I have a file explorer?

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by 52-6F-62 on Sunday September 27, 2020 @11:01AM (#24607128)
I noticed this last week with UPS (while being summarily screwed with unapproved brokerage fees... something there’s already been a class action suit about if you’re listening UPS).

To log in you have to go to the register/login page but that only brings you to a register page and the sign in page is actually a small link on that page to get to the point where you can enter your existing credentials to pay the fees they weren’t supposed to charge without explicit approval before they turn your package around to the originating country...

Americans, please use your USPS. They always have delivered on time, often early, and without so much clumsiness. Especially here in Canada—they work seamlessly with Canada Post.

UPS and FedEx have been mostly headaches.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by bobbob1921 on Sunday September 27, 2020 @01:32PM (#24608393)
Great point! USPS not only delivers xyz package quicker from the same to/from zip, but they are the only of the three that will actually deliver packages early than originally promised.

UPS and FedEx only, and I mean only, deliver on-time OR later than promised. NEVER earlier than promised. Additionally while UPS and FedEx say that there is a daily cut off time, this is almost always meaningless in that the first day never counts towards time-in-transit (which ,in terms of days, is already way longer than necessary from the start).

They both act as if they were to occasionally deliver a ground package a day earlier it would keep people from using their outrageously priced 2-day and next day services. Ie 13$ ground vs $137 next day.

Additionally UPS and FedEx (in my case mainly FedEx) are the only two where a package (generally on Saturdays) will get marked as “recipient not home” when I’ll check my cameras to see they never even attempted delivery.

both of their “guaranteed” time in transit maps are not worth the pixels upon which they are rendered.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by vincentmarle on Saturday September 26, 2020 @02:26PM (#24600977)
Segment.com’s homepage does this: the only way to “sign in”, is to click on “sign up”!
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by rtx on Saturday September 26, 2020 @03:08PM (#24601327)
This is one of the most confusing trends for me. Until I realized that Web design is mostly led by marketing and they care more about top of the funnel. Customer success should have a seat at the table.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by rabuse on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:55PM (#24602044)
Definitely one of the worst dark patterns to a site you frequent.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by Axsuul on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:16PM (#24602612)
I see "Log in"
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by m463 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @01:44PM (#24600652)
https://smile.amazon.com too. Now you have to click on "Let's Get Started"
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by macjohnmcc on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:40PM (#24601930)
I hate going to a website of which I have already signed up and the main page is more focused on attracting new signups than making it clear how to sign in for those already signed up. SIGN UP...... (sign in in tiny letters)
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by nyanpasu64 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @06:17PM (#24602620)
Discord and Element's homepages are info/signup pages even if you're logged in. So is AppVeyor's homepage.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by bobbob1921 on Sunday September 27, 2020 @01:23PM (#24608297)
Google domains and drive , are among the worst offenders of this. Domains is the worse of the two, unfortunately.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by ethbr0 on Saturday September 26, 2020 @01:22PM (#24600479)
Advertising splashes should never be allowed on base page URIs.

Just forward to another page, and don't bother your current users.

Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by fny on Saturday September 26, 2020 @03:45PM (#24601586)
Blame cacheability. Landing pages should load at breakneck speed, so everyone dumps static content to a CDN and never makes a trip to a DB.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by ianai on Saturday September 26, 2020 @03:47PM (#24601597)
How I’m reading that is modern web devs are awful at doing their job.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by megous on Saturday September 26, 2020 @04:42PM (#24601949)
Store a cookie. Invented like 50 years ago.
Re:Stop Asking Me to “Sign Up” (2014) by srtjstjsj on Saturday September 26, 2020 @08:02PM (#24603132)
26 years ago