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Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by ashtonkem on Friday May 01, 2020 @10:57PM (#23048742)
I will say that the newer MBPs have decent video cards. They’re not great, but they’re ok-ish.
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by gumby on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:03PM (#23048777)
Unfortunately due to the mobile architecture you can’t sync frames. This is true on the windows side too but there you can get a “gamer” laptop which has a desktop cpu and video architecture. We could only demo castar for example On a gamer laptop or a desktop. Even a cheap desktop worked great.

I’m a Mac user and develop on the Mac so you might think I’d bend over backwards to make an excuse, but...not possible in this area. Those gpus do render beautiful pictures and can do some cool gpgpu crunching, but aren’t appropriate for gaming.

Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by ashtonkem on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:07PM (#23048799)
Genuinely surprising. I’ve switched over from gaming on my older PC (very old CPU but a 1050ti) to my MBP for cable logistical reasons, and the MBP performs admirably. Admittedly I’m no hardcore gamer, but I’m satisfied with what my MBP can do.
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by willis936 on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:20PM (#23048861)
>can’t sync frames

What does this mean?

Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by teddyh on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:40PM (#23048942)
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by willis936 on Saturday May 02, 2020 @12:13AM (#23049118)
Right, but display buffering is a solution to the vertical sync issue that has existed for as long as raster graphics. You can’t buy a GPU without it.

Now that I’ve had more time since I read the post, I think they may have been referring to adaptive refresh rate.

Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by wtallis on Saturday May 02, 2020 @12:23AM (#23049171)
I don't think adaptive refresh rate is what that post was referring to. Instead, I think it was referring to the difficulty in doing frame synchronization when the game is running on the discrete GPU but the display is connected to the integrated GPU. But I don't know how Apple's hardware is set up on that score.
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by gumby on Saturday May 02, 2020 @12:29AM (#23049205)
Yeah, the problem was making sure we didn't have screen tearing. T he only path to video was through the mobile integrated graphics interface even when using the external graphics chip. On a desktop CPU you can DMA into graphics memory directly and get the frame sync.

I think you have to do this if you want to be able to switch between integrated and external. Which we didn't care about but perhaps most people do?

Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by wtallis on Saturday May 02, 2020 @12:36AM (#23049249)
> I think you have to do this if you want to be able to switch between integrated and external. Which we didn't care about but perhaps most people do?

Most people need to be able to power down the discrete GPU when they're done gaming in order to have reasonable battery life, and the most user-friendly way to make that possible is for every application but the video game to use the integrated GPU.

Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by reom_tobit on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:09PM (#23048813)
It’s not necessarily about the hardware, but (for me at least) more to do with the OpenGL hacks I have to do to get reasonable cross platform support rolling.

Took about 2 days to take a win project to linux, that same win project took about 3 weeks to port to mac.

That was the first time I’d done it of course (to either mac or linux), but I just found the mac documentation to be severely lacking.

Also all macs are now stuck on OpenGL 4.1 forever, it may not matter much now, but it will show in future.

And yes I know Vulkan is a thing but I think that’ll take a while to fully be adopted by the games community.

Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by bangonkeyboard on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:14PM (#23048835)
> Also all macs are now stuck on OpenGL 4.1 forever, it may not matter much now, but it will show in future.

Not forever: OpenGL is deprecated on macOS and will be removed in the future. I will be very surprised if OpenGL survives the ARM transition.

Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by reom_tobit on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:20PM (#23048863)
Imprecise language on my part. I meant that’s the final version that they’re ever going to support (if you can call the current state “support”), but yeah you’re 100% correct.
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by ekianjo on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:53PM (#23049007)
There is no Vulkan support on Mac as far as I know, except with MoltenVK...
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by reom_tobit on Saturday May 02, 2020 @12:14AM (#23049123)
There isn’t, you’re right. I was more future proofing my answer :)
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by dralley on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:05PM (#23048790)
But "decent" isn't really good enough for VR, where high refresh rates matter quite a bit.

Another factor in play might be that, if rumors are to be believed, future Macbooks will be shipping with ARM chips, with yet-to-be-determined CPU and Graphics performance. That might be a bridge too far for crossplatform projects who are already frustrated about having to maintain a Metal backend just for Mac.

Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by ashtonkem on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:07PM (#23048804)
Totally fair. VR has much higher requirements than regular gaming.
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday May 02, 2020 @06:25PM (#23055381)
And yet it works and sells well on a 3 year old mobile chipset in the Oculus Quest.
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by Danieru on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:01PM (#23048763)
Indeed, new machines can have decent GPUs. Except the install base is where your game will be played.

Thus the average matters.

Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by ashtonkem on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:04PM (#23048778)
The install base of your buyer matters, not the install base of Apple. I doubt that the average MacBook Air buyer is the average Mac video gamer, and I bet that MBPs are over represented in Mac video game uses.
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by jfkebwjsbx on Saturday May 02, 2020 @02:03AM (#23049674)
I would bet otherwise. Most gamers are casual and casual games usually run on integrated GPUs.

Only top-end MBPs are half decent for gaming anyway.

Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by arvinsim on Saturday May 02, 2020 @06:54AM (#23050970)
I have a gaming PC but also used my MBP for gaming on non GPU intensive games.

I was happy with this setup until Catalina killed 32 bit support. Most of the games I played on the MBP was 32 bit.

Killed Mac Gaming for me.

Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by izacus on Saturday May 02, 2020 @03:42AM (#23050126)
Those GPUs are horribly underpowered for the screen they're driving. They would be fine on a 1920x1080 display, but on a Mac display the GPU barely squeezes stable 30fps on modern games... even in lowest settings.
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by vmladenov on Sunday May 03, 2020 @02:57AM (#23057373)
The GPUs are not underpowered. A Radeon Pro is simply not intended for video games. There are less powerful standard Radeons that have better game performance.
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by kbumsik on Friday May 01, 2020 @11:48PM (#23048980)
How is the proportion of MBPs in the macOS users?
Re:Valve drops VR support for macOS by ashtonkem on Saturday May 02, 2020 @12:37AM (#23049253)
Probably high as long as you include work machines, and otherwise low.