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Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by dathinab on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @06:02PM (#22621726)
My predictions:

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a expert wrt. any of this. Don't listen to me ;=). It's all just speculation.

Companies which plan to downsize since a will will do it now, using COVID19 as a excuse.

Companies who have shifted some "bad consequences" into the future might now book them using COVID19 as a excuse for why they exist.

Companies who are already on the last straw will end now, (Such which without COVID19 might have survived a view more month up to a year but didn't see a chance for long term survival without a wonder).

A bunch of companies will go insolvent because COVID19 or following marked situation.

Because of this investors will be a bit more careful then normal, for most kinds of "fresh"/"new" startups it likely will not be a good time.

A small number of startups will have massive opportunities.

Marked will recover after at most 5 Years more likely 3.5 Years. At least if no further crisis happens (like WW3 or one of the massive Vulcan's going off).

Unrelated tip: Be a software engineer not "just" a programmer.

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by corwinstephen on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @08:03PM (#22622848)
I spent most of the last 4 years running a startup that has proven to be the steepest or uphill battles. Struggling to find investors willing to take a chance in our space vs the trendier ones, struggling to convert slow moving clients, struggling to find engineers willing to work in our very unglamorous niche.

We’re a platform for designing and managing digital government processes for permitting and licensing.

After for years of pain, struggle, and doubt, we’ve had more inbound interest this week than ever before, and I feel incredibly lucky to have landed in that small number of startups.

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by sparr0 on Thursday March 19, 2020 @12:29AM (#22624492)
I wish you well, and wish I had money to invest. When you grow enough to be looking for devops engineers, or sooner for just software engineers, look me up?
Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by muse900 on Thursday March 19, 2020 @07:34PM (#22632920)
Want to wish you well, and its quite nice after all this sorrow to see that there are still nice ideas out there that are capable to not only survive but prosper.
Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by ccajas on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @09:23PM (#22623380)
A remark about the unrelated tip: A good chunk of companies, if not the majority, out there are looking for "just a programmer", noted by how much they advertise and place emphasis that you must know specific languages and software tools (especially if React or Java is gonna be part of your job title), over broader concepts like design patterns and algorithms.

This can be a problem when you want to sell yourself as a proper SWE, when the people in charge of the hiring pipeline only understand simple pattern-matching for "React Wizard with 5 years experience". And you can't be too picky about where you want to work, even though they might continue to be picky for employees. It unfortunately makes it so you either already have to already be a very good match for their specific needs, or you are compelled to lie on your resume.

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by arvinsim on Thursday March 19, 2020 @05:53AM (#22625981)
There really is no silver bullet. If you really want to cover most cases, you have to

- Be generalist to cover all general concepts as you outlined

- Be a "programmer". That is knowledgeable in specific frameworks and languages

- Be data structure and algorithms guy. Most technical interviews involve them even if they are not needed in job.

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by madeofpalk on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @07:29PM (#22622594)
There’s also the situations where the pandemic makes already mad situations even worse.

My parents run a cafe/restaurant in rural Australia that was already not doing too great, and they were looking to sell. Now, they’re truly fucked.

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by fludlight on Thursday March 19, 2020 @08:26AM (#22626783)
I'm sure Australia will be locked down soon. Maybe they can switch to a take-out model. Rural areas also need more grocery stores. Maybe sell bulk dry/canned goods since they already stock that.
Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by jee1shi on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @09:14PM (#22623343)
What's the difference between a software engineer and "just" a programmer?
Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by SeanAppleby on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @10:48PM (#22623890)
IMO engineer implies the same direction of thing it implies anywhere else: a deep understanding of the fundamentals of what you're building, an ability to rigorously model and optimize for the key aspects of your problem space and turn them into a solid design that meets them (whether that's performance, scaleability, reliability, latency, throughput, memory use, etc)

Programmer moreso implies just making things work, like a carpenter, by putting together something good enough using existing tools, possibly constrained by the tools available to you, in my opinion.

That said, everyone's understanding breaks down at some level of abstraction, so it's a spectrum, and you can be plenty productive and useful operating at a high level of abstraction.

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by DeathArrow on Thursday March 19, 2020 @03:15AM (#22625273)
At university I've studied Computer Science, that's what is written on my diploma and I consider myself a computer scientist even if I do lots of engineering and programming.

And it's not because of the diploma but because I am highly interested in the fundamentals of computer science, formal languages, automas, formal semantics, algebra, algorithms, data structures, coding theory, game theory, symbolic computation, graph theory.

But that doesn't make me an efficient coder since all that is required is to know a particular framework and programming language well and have lots of experience with it.

So, while I can understand the theory better, there will be many people coding faster and better than me.

I do however have the advantage of being able to pick up and learn stuff fast. Since I like to learn about new thinks I've also fiddled with lots of tech stacks and while I didn't mastered them, I've picked up enough to know what might be the best tool for a particular job.

So, beside stuff I use currently and which I am at a decent level, I am more of a jack of all trades. I don't know if anyone ever needs a jack of all trades at a company since everybody seems to be hiring highly specialized staff.

But I think my skill set might be of value when I'll be starting my own business.

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by morenoh149 on Thursday March 19, 2020 @01:58AM (#22624932)
To me software engineer means being able to translate business requirements into working solutions. That would be programmer by your definition. But I think it takes more than coding to do this well. Agile prescribes a conversation between the customer and the implementor.
Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by dionidium on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @10:56PM (#22623949)
In reality? It's totally nebulous, the terms aren't standardized, the distinctions aren't agreed upon, and people use these words -- developer, engineer, programmer -- interchangeably and/or inconsistently. You can't actually tell anything about someone by which term they use.

But in practice, as you'll see in this thread, some people have very strong (and totally arbitrary) opinions about those words, for reasons I cannot fathom. Knowing this exists is important, I guess, because some people will (maybe silently) judge you for using the wrong one in the wrong context, and you should at least be aware that can happen.

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by _bxg1 on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @10:36PM (#22623819)
Lately "software engineer" feels a bit pretentious to me, with all the articles about how we're co-opting the word "engineer". I've started using the word "programmer" just to avoid the pretention and because it has a nice old-school ring to it.

I kind of doubt employers read it as such a technical term that it would factor into the hiring process.

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by arvinsim on Thursday March 19, 2020 @05:56AM (#22625986)
Engineer seems too pretentious. Programmer seems....low trade?

If so, why not just use developer?

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by _bxg1 on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:59AM (#22628073)
> Programmer seems....low trade?

Does it though? Is there such thing as a low-trade programmer? Even at the very entry level the job postings say "Junior Software Engineer". Programmer, to me, just rings of the 80s/90s, when code was a little more gristly and our field didn't have quite such an inflated ego. It has a vintage charm.

"Software Developer" is... fine. It's accurate and descriptive, just very boring (and a bit verbose; "developer" without "software" could be ambiguous so you usually need to say both).

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by arvinsim on Thursday March 19, 2020 @10:59PM (#22634245)
> Does it though? Is there such thing as a low-trade programmer?

I am not implying that programming is low trade.

It's just nowadays, some people's perception of that term is being a code monkey.

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by kojeovo on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @10:46PM (#22623880)
My HR friends say it matters to some. That engineer looks better
Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by moltar on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @09:33PM (#22623450)
The same as brick layer vs architect.
Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by proc0 on Thursday March 19, 2020 @11:38PM (#22634570)
It involves solving and creating "engines", i.e. an app framework, a development platform, a game engine.
Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by dathinab on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @06:05PM (#22621764)
I forgot: Small non-software companies with 1-2 People will have a large hit, and likely many insolvencies.

E.g. it looks very bad for professional flea-marked trader or the small shop around the corner.

Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by geerlingguy on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @06:52PM (#22622281)
I run a few small SaaS side projects, and most of my clients are smaller shops that do web projects. So far I haven't had any cancellations, but I'm crossing my fingers over the next month or two :/
Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by projektfu on Thursday March 19, 2020 @01:41AM (#22624842)
To be fair, it’s not just about finding an excuse. A company that’s struggling can run out of cash quickly during these events. Outside of SV that usually means bankruptcy of some sort.
Re:Ask HN: Have you been laid off? by popup21 on Wednesday March 18, 2020 @06:07PM (#22621793)
All of your speculations seem entirely rational to me. Good analysis.