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Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by baybal2 on Thursday March 12, 2020 @04:21AM (#22554796)
By the way, it's not a secret in the electronics circles here that Apple is still working on its own version of Magicleapy VR goggles.

For example, they made an entire new semiconductor unit just to make microled displays for it.

They also been hiring, and buying companies in light field imaging field for years now, and they may add a light field imaging/display into the mix.

I think Magicleap knows now that Apple is miles ahead of them, and tries to sell while they still can

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by janoc on Thursday March 12, 2020 @07:18AM (#22555607)
Why is everyone talking about the still vaporware Apple goggles when Microsoft is actually selling Hololens (a direct competitor to Magic Leap) for longer than ML is even on the market.

Yeah, I do get it, Apple and all, but this is ignoring the elephant in the room.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by Ajedi32 on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:27AM (#22556549)
Quoting from another HN comment I favorited a while back:

> Something that doesn't exist is just so much more exciting than something that does. Real things have caveats, limitations, and costs.

Right now Apple's glasses aren't real, so they have no caveats, limitations, or costs: only raw potential. That's way more exciting than a real product which we already know is too expensive for the average consumer to use.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by ethagknight on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:21AM (#22556497)
One good reason- Because when Apple solves the equation, everyone else tends to fall in line. Microsoft gets props for having the product out for sure, but Apple is searching for the magic recipe to sell 10 million. Every quarter.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by janoc on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:26AM (#22557183)
Well, good luck for them. The problem is that unless they manage to pull some incredible technological feat, it won't really happen.

Physics is a bitch, there are some real reasons why you can't make AR glasses thin and sexy like sunshades and costing sub $1000 to boot.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by AndrewKemendo on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:46AM (#22558029)
I just bought a $1000 iPhone. It's not even the most advanced model either.

I'm certain Apple could make an AR (ish) headset that is amazing for $2k

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by janoc on Friday March 13, 2020 @01:38PM (#22569186)
A phone is a commodity with little technological known-how required to pull off today.

iPhone sells for $1000 because people will pay so much for it but that doesn't mean that the technology in it costs so much.

However, when a single diffraction waveguide (the piece of glass that forms the display of devices like a Hololens or Magic Leap) which is the only known way how to make a flat-ish display (otherwise you need bulky mirrors or prisms) costs hundreds of dollars (and you need 3 per eye minimum, one for each color), then it is hard to see how Apple would pull that off. And that's only a display.

At least if we are talking a proper AR device, not a personal HUD/"smartglasses" like the Google Glass.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by hurricanetc on Thursday March 12, 2020 @08:18AM (#22555985)
You cannot directly purchase the Hololens yet, and even if you could it’s $3,500.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by tw04 on Thursday March 12, 2020 @08:46AM (#22556212)
The price tag is exactly why you can't "buy directly" as you say. It's not currently intended for consumers - they understand the price point makes that a non-starter. Given that the COGs aren't going down anytime soon, I'm in complete agreement with that choice.

On the flip side, if you've got an actual business case for hololens, acquiring them is rather trivial. And quite frankly for the use-cases I've seen hololens deployed, $3,500 a pair is barely a rounding error in the project budget.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by jorvi on Thursday March 12, 2020 @08:56AM (#22556290)
It is slightly laughable to complain about Microsoft selling their AR glasses for €3500 when their direct competitor would (will?) be Apple, who have no qualms selling a €1000 aluminium stand or €50 000 desktop computer. Expect a solid premium over Microsoft's pricing.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by Retric on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:23AM (#22556517)
Apple charges what the market will bare, and frankly there is no market for a 3,500$ AR headset.

PS: 28 cores and 1.5TB of RAM is still very much workstation territory. Few people need that, but it’s a solid investment if you’re in that group.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by moooo99 on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:28AM (#22557839)
> 28 cores and 1.5TB of RAM is still very much workstation territory

But its still a rather overpriced workstation. However, thats not the topic. Microsoft also charges what the market will bare, but it is a completely different market. MS has been quite focused on their B2B products for a while, so selling the expensive Hololens to companies and not private users makes perfect sense. So if you're in that group, its a solid investment

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by brianwawok on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:17AM (#22556471)
iPhone and macbooks have done well because they are in the consumer price range.

$5,000 mac pro is not targeted to the consumer market. I doubt it is responsible for 1% of Apple's profit.

If apple does VR, they want it in everyones house - not in a few hundred. That's not the scale they operate at.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by hurricanetc on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:08AM (#22556994)
Who is complaining about pricing? I merely pointed out that the Hololens is not a consumer product.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:57AM (#22556879)
Microsoft's approach is clunky and unsexy that's why. You wear an entire PC on your head essentially.

Apple's approach seems to be powerful iPhone in pocket, wirelessly talk to a dumb display/sensors on your head.

Look what Apple did with watches...

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by janoc on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:31AM (#22557229)
Sure they did. Except those watches don't need several cameras to track your movement without which the AR overlays aren't possible.

Those cameras need video processing - that's big, hot and heavy compute capability somewhere nearby the camera itself because you can't stream that e.g. using Bluetooth to a phone in your pocket.

That compute also sucks batteries dry like there is no tomorrow, so a large battery has to be somewhere.

Oh and if you want to actually display an overlay to the user (and not only some text in the corner of your eye like Google Glass did), then you need fairly large optics - laws of physics won't budge only because it is Apple.

That's why the Hololens is so clunky and unsexy. Magic Leap has put the compute and batteries in the user's pocket, but then there is a cable between the two (and the goggles aren't much lighter/less clunky really).

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on Friday March 13, 2020 @07:47PM (#22571867)
Yes. My idea is that Apple will do the compute on their iPhones in the user's pocket with a wireless connection between the two. The glasses will be an accessory to the phone.

Perhaps their plan is to start small and scale up only as much as will be "sexy" year over year. Rather than go all in on a massive headset and shrink with iteration.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by KallDrexx on Thursday March 12, 2020 @08:55AM (#22556276)
What ever happened to Hololens revision 2? Wasn't that supposed to be announced last year?
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by janoc on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:34AM (#22557257)
AFAIK, they have jumped the gun a bit. It is shipping but only to selected partners because they have some major image quality issues:

https://www.kguttag.com/2019/12/18/hololens-2-not-a-pretty-p...

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by crystaln on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:35AM (#22556640)
Apple isn't hyping their goggles, so vaporware isn't really a fair label.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by janoc on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:32AM (#22557237)
But everyone else is talking about them as if it was a done deal.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by Invictus0 on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:04AM (#22557583)
No one is talking about them, it is still a skunkworks project like their self-driving car.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by janoc on Friday March 13, 2020 @01:40PM (#22569202)
They have abandoned the self-driving car and laid off the entire team.

And the "no one is talking about them" kinda doesn't match with the coverage of Apple rumors - and even this discussion.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by dominotw on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:40AM (#22556676)
> Microsoft is actually selling Hololens (a direct competitor to Magic Leap)

Like MS selling zune and music subscription decades before it became a norm ?

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by neuronic on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:26AM (#22557181)
Zune was announced on November 14th, 2006.

iPod 1st Gen was released in 2001.

What are you raving about?

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by dominotw on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:14AM (#22557698)
did you miss the second part of my sentence?
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by serverQuestion on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:44AM (#22556715)
this so much this. For some reason Microsoft does all these awesome things without winning the market (again)
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by brosinante on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:54AM (#22556834)
Yet people still refuse to accept that sometimes, being first makes little difference, delivering something well polished and usable as well as having a track record of quality is worth a lot, and people make choices for reasons other than release timelines.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by ProZsolt on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:10AM (#22557651)
Being first only matters when you solve a problem people already have. Polishing doesn't matter it that case because you ease people's pain.

If you create a thing that people don't want currently polishing and marketing all that matters.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by swalsh on Thursday March 12, 2020 @08:52AM (#22556252)
This probably is going to come off the wrong way, but there has not been an "innovative" product to come out of Apple that truly impresses me since Steve Jobs died. It feels like the company has learned how to optimize what they already have, and its innovations are fueled by fumes.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by artimaeis on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:12AM (#22556410)
Neither AirPods nor Apple Watch come off as impressive? That's pretty pessimistic. I'd say both were highly innovative and impressive -- further pushing miniaturization both of the physical hardware and the user interface.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by PedroBatista on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:33AM (#22556608)
Again.. optimization ( done well )
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by z3ncyberpunk on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:36AM (#22556647)
Except that neither of which were invented by Apple?
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by harrier on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:08AM (#22557001)
Apple didn't invent the smart phone or the mp3 player either.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by neya on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:35AM (#22556633)
You mean a watch you can't use to see the time as frequently as a normal mechanical watch or the battery would die?
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by ProZsolt on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:40AM (#22557961)
Not just that but also refinement. When I bought my first MacBook around 2008 it wasn't innovative, but it had a lot of small things that other laptops lacked. The touchpad and MagSafe connector was superior. When you closed your laptop it went to sleep and it actually worked. Also, a lot of other things. Now you get touchbar and memojis and other gimmicks.

The only thing I want that Apple currently makes is a UK phone charger[1]. Its folding mechanism is far superior to any other charger. These things are what I really miss.

[1]https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MU7W2B/A/18w-usb-c-pow...

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by goatherders on Thursday March 12, 2020 @08:58AM (#22556300)
I don't think making an observation about a company's lack of innovation comes off the wrong way at all. Apple hasn't done anything new and noteworthy in some time. That's fine. Pointing it out is fine too.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by tiborsaas on Thursday March 12, 2020 @08:59AM (#22556310)
I definitely noticed that the removed the esc key :)
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by bionhoward on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:09AM (#22556388)
Apple Watch is a joy to use. Helps you be more active, tracks your cardio, remote controls the TV, timers alarms flashlight messages EKG, I use it a ton and love it. Made under Tim Cook
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by themaninthedark on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:03AM (#22556943)
In what way was the Apple watch innovative over the Pebble?

Edit: I realize that might be very direct, I have no knowledge of the smart watch market, only remember that Pebble seemed to be first in the space.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by aabhay on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:10AM (#22557017)
The Pebble, as a black and white e-ink Watch, was more of a niche offering. Apple created a sleek, colorful product with mass market appeal that was also deeply integrated with the phone. So basically it was innovative in every way and also not in any way, as a matter of interpretation?
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by ProZsolt on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:24AM (#22557786)
Android Wear was introduced a year ahead(2014) of Apple Watch(2015) with everything you stated. It was still great but not as innovative as the iPhone or the iPod was.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by themaninthedark on Thursday March 12, 2020 @02:22PM (#22559958)
Thanks! I don't wear a watch so a smart watch doesn't appeal to me, so I never followed the product releases but you miss some of the nuanced history if you try and read what happened after the fact.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by remmargorp64 on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:41AM (#22557974)
Apple has never invented anything truly innovative.

All they do (and all they have ever done) was reinvent the wheel. They do, however, consistently reinvent the wheel better than anyone else.

Case in point: In literally the year 2000, I owned an HP Jornada 548 pocket pc, complete with a wireless modem that worked on cell phone networks. It ran Windows CE, and I was able to surf the web, use AOL instant messenger, ICQ, do voice recordings (even transcription), handwriting recognition, play games, and yes, even make phone calls. But it was clunky, and it wasn't something that I would even dream of recommending to my grandmother (because the UI was terrible and slow, and it required a lot of fiddling with things to get it dialed in the way I liked it).

Contrast that with the iPhone (which was released a full 7 years later). Was it the first smart phone? Obviously not. But it was the first smart phone that I could honestly recommend to my grandmother.

Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by ncfausti on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:54AM (#22556843)
While I mostly agree with you, the iPad Pro is the exception. It's really one of my favorite purchases ever.
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by specialist on Thursday March 12, 2020 @09:41AM (#22556685)
Which products, services, whatever have impressed you?
Re:Magic Leap trying to sell for $10B by carlosdp on Thursday March 12, 2020 @08:59AM (#22556307)
What about AirPods?