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Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by xster on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @06:39PM (#22489373)
Adam Neely (YouTube music educator) had an absolutely farcical run-in with this situation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM6X2MEl7R8) where he made a video defending Warner Music and Katy Perry's Dark Horse against Flame's Joyful Noise plagiarism suit. He lost the claim from Warner Music even though:

1- he was defending Warner Music

2- he didn't play any recordings, he just played 3 notes on a synthesizer (which is his whole premise that it's un-copyrightable)

3- Warner Music lost the actual suit (which implies they don't have copyright on those 3 notes?)

4- someone at Warner Music manually tagged the "infringing" part of the video, except the person tagged not the Dark Horse part of the play through but the Joyful Noise part of the play through (*^∀^)ノ彡┻━┻

changelog: improved ascii art

Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by RandomTisk on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @06:48PM (#22489436)
It's pretty simple, Alphabet/Google make it far too easy for mistaken, false or frivolous claims. It's obvious why, usually the claimant has the heavy bags of money to use as a bludgeon, but it's not right.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by Veedrac on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @11:36PM (#22491009)
It's not just that it's easy, but that the theft is legal and profitable. You don't even need to be rich to do this, you just need stuff you can claim; see How to Break YouTube (Copyright Claim your own video).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieErnZAN5Eo

Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by jonathanstrange on Thursday March 05, 2020 @04:13AM (#22492095)
IANAL but it seems to me Alphabet/Google can get in serious legal trouble for it if they continue the system. There are a number of companies who massively submit false copyright claims and YouTube let's them do their business, even though it's easy to check in particular cases that the claims are false. These bogus companies get at least part of the monetization from videos they falsely claim.

Doesn't that mean that Youtube is knowingly facilitating fraud and in some cases - when legitimate content is taken over - even commercial copyright infringement? It seems to me that the only reason why Youtube has gotten away with it so far is that nobody has systematically collected the evidence and sued Youtube in a country like Germany, for instance.

Edit: On a second thought, fraud seems irrelevant. It's about commercial copyright infringement.

Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by mcv on Thursday March 05, 2020 @09:11AM (#22493604)
There really needs to be a class action suit about this. Google allows Big Content to claim other people's content. Instead of fighting copyright violations, they assist in copyright violations on a massive scale, and deprive artists of income from their content.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by Mirioron on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @10:48PM (#22490784)
The interesting thing is that one idea behind the copyright change in the EU is to alleviate this point. I don't think it'll work, but that's what the politicians touted it as.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by raverbashing on Thursday March 05, 2020 @05:29AM (#22492430)
It was the copyright lobbyist that pushed for it, so of course it isn't (to alleviate this point)
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by guramarx11 on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @11:09PM (#22490880)
somehow that explain some other issues on yt, like not only demonetizing the corona virus tagged videos but also other videos on the channel involved
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by LeoTinnitus on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @10:51PM (#22490801)
It's also because US law requires companies to excessively defend their trademarks in order to enforce them as a rightholder otherwise they lose it. So really US law has just been interpreted in a way that is absurdly annoying for everyone. Companies have no choice but to defend and actively seek out even minor things because it can all be used against them in court eventually one day. As long as they actively suppress that stuff, it proves to a judge they are protecting their IP. It's really a precedent set by the US government to force companies to waste this time and annoy us.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by thwarted on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @10:58PM (#22490837)
US law requires companies to excessively defend their trademarks in order to enforce them as a rightholder otherwise they lose it

Copyright and trademarks are different intellectual property concerns with different maintenance, declaration, and enforcement rules.

Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by rswail on Thursday March 05, 2020 @06:09AM (#22492576)
Copyright is not Trademarks is not Patents.

They are different sorts of protection and rights for different sorts of intellectual property.

All/Most countries that have trademark IPR require the holder to defend that right or lose it. It's not US specific. That's because you get the right to that mark because you're using it and watching for other people not to try to misuse or pass off their product/service as yours.

You are not required to immediately defend copyright, because its a right you hold whether you publish your work or not. You have copyright on something basically as soon as it is fixed in a physical form (written/recorded etc).

Finally, with patents, you're not required to have it in physical form, but you are required to describe it to the patent office in a way someone "skilled in the art" could reproduce. If they do that without getting permission then they have violated your patent.

So your premise in your message is incorrect.

Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by rolls-reus on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @11:25PM (#22490966)
I've seen the point you make about trademarks often repeated but it is infact not true. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not...
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by Hnrobert42 on Thursday March 05, 2020 @12:55AM (#22491282)
I donate to EFF regularly, and I support the article’s premise.

However, I am not sure an argument by EFF, no matter how much I support it, can be considered a factual counterpoint.

Also, I’m bummed to see the parent post downvoted. I thought on HN, downvotes were supposed to be used on off topic/hostile/unproductive points, not just ones with which we disagree.

Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by jeltz on Thursday March 05, 2020 @09:00AM (#22493513)
It is down voted due to being off topic. Copyright and trademark are two unrelated topics.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by creato on Thursday March 05, 2020 @01:00AM (#22491300)
It is misinformation written in an authoritative tone with no source.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by RichardCA on Thursday March 05, 2020 @07:02PM (#22499773)
It's considered bad form to lump them together.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.en.html

Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by rolls-reus on Thursday March 05, 2020 @08:50AM (#22493444)
The article has citations to some rulings that affirm the point it is making. "Wallpaper Mfrs., Ltd. v. Crown Wallcovering Corp., 680 F.2d 755, 766 (C.C.P.A. 1982) (“an owner is not required to act immediately against every possibly infringing use to avoid a holding of abandonment”);"
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by wglb on Thursday March 05, 2020 @12:48PM (#22495996)
Downvoting for disagreement has been a long-accepted practice, as noted by 'pg and 'dang.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by Hnrobert42 on Monday March 09, 2020 @02:21PM (#22528045)
My bad. I reread the guidelines and FAQ. I must have been thinking of some other forum.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by elithrar on Thursday March 05, 2020 @03:25AM (#22491878)
The parent conflates copyrights with trademarks.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by GoblinSlayer on Thursday March 05, 2020 @04:33AM (#22492185)
If a belief is comfy enough, people won't abandon it :)
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by DuskStar on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @10:57PM (#22490828)
However, trademark is not copyright.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by rebuilder on Wednesday March 04, 2020 @11:48PM (#22491053)
It's not a copyright system. Sure, YouTube are required to take down copyright-infringing material as defined by law, but AFAIK they are not required to apply considerations for fair use etc. I'm not sure there's any requirement for them to consider the truthfulness of copyright claims at all.

IOW, YouTube's system may be a response to copyright legislation, but it does not apply that legislation. Appeals to the fair use doctrine are missing the point. The doctrine does not apply since YouTube's actions are not constrained by copyright law.

IANAL, as you can probably tell. I may be wrong about what YT are required to consider, but in that case, I don't see how they can operate as they do.

Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by unlinked_dll on Thursday March 05, 2020 @12:29AM (#22491197)
It's not simply that they don't have any requirement to consider fair use but that there's no incentive for them to do it. If they defend users content that may infringe or may be fair use (the distinction is up to a court, mind you) they open themselves up to secondary liability. If you're a service provider you're probably going to err on the side of claimants and never reject a single one.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by dwild on Thursday March 05, 2020 @10:50AM (#22494546)
Yeah that's the whole point of DMCA, you remove liability by not taking side.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by ajsnigrutin on Thursday March 05, 2020 @10:07AM (#22494078)
If youtube's automated system detects a copyrighter (eg.) song, the user should be given an option to say "no, it's not copyrighter, or it's fair use, etc", after that, the claim should be forwarded to the copyright owner.

The copyright owner would then verify if it is indeed a copyright infringement, and if they believe it is, and the user still believe it isn't, the case should be brought to some quivalent of "small claims court", where both sides would present their sides, and the loser has to pay some fine (not too large, but still high enough to deter pointless cases.. eg $1000 (to cover the court cost), and damages up to eg. $1000 due to lost views, or damages due to unlicenced distribution).

Basically, make it worth fighting for, if you're sure you're right in what you're doing, and not too expensive, when eg. Sonys lawyers build a multi-year case, destroying you financially, even if you're doing the right thing.

Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by rebuilder on Thursday March 05, 2020 @10:51AM (#22494560)
Well, that sounds like something to take up with the legislator, not YouTube.
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by andykx on Thursday March 05, 2020 @12:19AM (#22491165)
From another non-lawyer perspective, might it be different since there is money involved? I view it as potentially infringing on some people’s livelihoods.

Again, just spitballing. I have no idea what the reality of the situation is.

Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by afiori on Thursday March 05, 2020 @03:54AM (#22492018)
part of the issue is that fair use is something that needs to be proven in court
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by adtac on Thursday March 05, 2020 @12:30AM (#22491200)
There should be a strike system against claimants falsely claiming videos, just like the users have a strike system. Three incorrect claims and every claim you make will be reviewed by an independent third party (billed to the claimant, of course).
Re:Explaining copyright broke the YouTube copyright system by ralusek on Thursday March 05, 2020 @02:46AM (#22491705)
That is so, so hilarious. Any one of those things individually is funny. Together; glorious.