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Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by speedski1 on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:25PM (#22301712)
Random question, but I'm moving to London in a few months, do you have any suggestions on banks or "challenger" banks I should go with? (couldn't figure out how to DM you, not sure if it's possible on Hacker News)
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by twic on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:26PM (#22302439)
Looking more broadly than just challenger banks:

https://www.which.co.uk/money/banking/bank-accounts/best-and...

Top of the list (as it often has been for decades) is First Direct. This is a challenger bank in its own way - it was launched in 1989 to pioneer telephone banking, a disruptive technology at the time! It now has phone and internet banking, but still has no physical branches.

Monzo and Starling, the proper challenger banks, are also rated very highly, taking the second and third spots.

Behind them are some somewhat unconventional banks:

Nationwide is a building society rather than a bank; functionally it's a bank, but it's owned by its customers, rather than by investors. Dates to the 19th century, has many branches, very boring really. My mum banks with them, and she doesn't complain.

Marks & Spencer is an upmarket department store (i swear by their lambswool socks!) which branched out into banking a while ago.

Metro Bank is a perfectly normal high street bank, with branches and so on, but it was founded in 2010. Apparently the last time a new bank was founded before that was 150 years earlier.

The Co-operative Bank is, as the name suggests, a co-operative. It's a bit like a building society, but not. I bank with them. Their website is terrible and their phone customer service has been slashed (although when you do get through to someone, they're great).

Only then do you get to Barclays, which is a classic high street bank - founded in the 17th century, branches in every town, full service, investment banking arm, rigs LIBOR, etc.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by razakel on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:59PM (#22302774)
>The Co-operative Bank is, as the name suggests, a co-operative.

It's no longer a co-op and its relationship with the Co-Operative Group will end later this year.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by notahacker on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @06:53PM (#22304287)
True, it's only minority-owned by the Cooperative Group, though it does supposedly now also recognise the influence of an independently-founded customer cooperative on its ethical policy.

[any fintech enthusiasts trying to think of a challenger bank niche the UK hasn't already got multiple heavily-marketed competing alternatives in might like to go down the ethics route...]

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by thinkingemote on Wednesday February 12, 2020 @11:14AM (#22310019)
The Group sold it's 1% in September 2017 and has no longer any holdings with the bank. The group still has a marketing agreement with the bank until 2020.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by razakel on Wednesday February 12, 2020 @07:29PM (#22314292)
Ecology Building Society, Charity Bank and Triodos have pretty much sewn up the ethics market between them.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by mprev on Wednesday February 12, 2020 @11:00AM (#22309871)
Metro Bank is going through some difficulties, to say the least, right now.

First Direct and Marks and Spencer are brands of HSBC. First Direct is independent enough that you get a very different service from them compared to vanilla HSBC.

As others have said, Co-op is owned by private equity now. When they were a true co-op, you could forgive them the odd bit of sloppy service but there's no excuse now.

If I were coming to the UK for the first time, I'd see if a local bank in my country (usually it's HSBC or Santander) could offer to help me set up when a UK account with their local subsidiary. KYC, credit checks, etc can make opening an account difficult when you're new to the country.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by cosmodisk on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @06:38PM (#22304175)
I've been using Metro bank for ages,they are pretty good and easy to deal with. Not sure how good or bad they are with their products ( mortgages, etc.), however for purely having them as a money box is quite OK.Also,they print card in store while you wait,so no need to wait 2 weeks for it to arrive in post.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by shrikant on Wednesday February 12, 2020 @04:01AM (#22307150)
Just FYI -- First Direct is a part of HSBC and has been for nearly 30 years now, and isn't some scrappy little underdog. It's a bit baffling as to why HSBC itself features at 15th position in that same list you posted!

(Note: I don't use either)

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by philpem on Wednesday February 12, 2020 @04:44AM (#22307401)
Probably for a similar reason to why many hotel chains have a 'budget' and an 'upmarket' arm. Capturing multiple market segments.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by eat_veggies on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:34PM (#22301829)
I got my paycheck paid into my monzo. They don't require a proof of address, so I was able to open an account from my hotel room and have my card sent to my new workplace before I had my own flat.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by user5994461 on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:52PM (#22302075)
+1

Monzo doesn't ask for proof of address, while other banks will need something like a utility bill. As a newcomer to the UK, one is pretty much obliged to open a bank account with Monzo.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by Matsta on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:34PM (#22303136)
Monzo also use Transunion for their credit checking which are lot more relaxed compared to the other big 2 (Equifax and Experian), which usually require 3 years of address proof to run through their KYC/credit checks.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by easytiger on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:19PM (#22302356)
How is that legal under KYC laws etc?
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by growse on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:42PM (#22302620)
I'm a little rusty on this, so some details may not be correct.

My understanding is that UK KYC basically don't specify exactly how to validate an individual's identity, only that the bank should do that (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/identity-proofing...). It does suggest that a person's identity is "often someone’s name, date of birth and address", but it doesn't seem to mandate that.

I believe the requirement for banks to hold addresses is actually an AML requirement, and this only comes into effect for larger or riskier transactions.

In a sense, the requirement to have a "provable address" just to open a basic bank account becomes quite problematic when you consider there are people who don't have fixed addresses. Whats worse, you discover that most of the ways in which you can get a fixed address require you to have a bank account (e.g. renting a place to live). It's an entirely unnecessary chicken-and-egg scenario caused by the insistence of the older banks on collecting proof of address, which they didn't technically need to do.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by Matsta on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:46PM (#22303255)
Yes, you are correct, you only really need proof of address once you start offering credit (running hard credit check).

And you're also correct in terms of AML - once a person crosses over a certain threshold or raises and risk alarms, they'll be required run further AML checks. Eg. if you were to signup to Monzo and then put 50 grand in there from a foreign account.

What Monzo has to do since they are new, is keep a squeaky clean record with the authorities. This is why Monzo usually blocks or even bans anyone that buys Cryptocurrency eg: https://www.reddit.com/r/monzo/comments/avdw8o/notice_regard...

Source: I work in Crypto

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by cosmodisk on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @06:40PM (#22304190)
I find the application of KYC differs widely not just between different banks but also between people working within the same banks, sometimes even within the same branch.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by user5994461 on Wednesday February 12, 2020 @05:44PM (#22313632)
Monzo has no KYC. They ask you to record a brief video saying your name and you want to join. That's it.

Other banks vary a lot in what paper they accept, but they always want some papers.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by wikibob on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:38PM (#22301865)
100% Monzo.

https://monzo.com/blog/technology

Also check out all the awesome tech meetups they host at their new office. There's a very strong and small open source 'cloud' tech community in London where everyone knows everyone. Try hard to meet some people and before you know it you'll have a new group of friends.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by Nextgrid on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:44PM (#22301962)
Kind of disagree.

I was a huge Monzo fan, converted dozens of friends to it and was one of the first ones to get their beta current account (which I immediately started using as my main and only account despite it being in beta).

Nowadays however they seem to have trouble making profit, but instead of focusing on their existing customers they pour money into more marketing even though they can’t actually support all of them and now customer service response times are measured in days. They feel like a bullshit social media company with no real (aka profitable where people are happy to pay for it) product and are just trying to inflate their customer numbers no matter what.

Now I bank with Starling. They aren’t as “nice” as Monzo used to be but are definitely a lot better than the current Monzo both in terms of support and UI (Monzo redesigned their UI and it’s a shit-show now). They also offer business and Euro accounts if needed.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by ubercow13 on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:22PM (#22302395)
If you think Monzo isn't profitable, what makes you think Starling would be? They have basically the same product except with more expensive (for them) incentives.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by Nextgrid on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:36PM (#22302548)
Starling has other sources of income like their enterprise services which allow businesses to connect to the Faster Payments network: https://www.starlingbank.com/paymentservices/

In addition they have business accounts which don’t have any of the costly features like interest, free cash deposits, etc so they’re profitable for Starling as they profit off the interest (especially relevant for business accounts as they might hold high balances keeping money aside for taxes and VAT) without giving out many costly features like cash deposits (the only overhead there is support and foreign ATM withdrawals).

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by mprev on Wednesday February 12, 2020 @11:07AM (#22309944)
Starling business accounts do allow cash deposits through the Post Office network but they're chargeable, like cash deposits on any business account I've seen.

Domestic ATM withdrawals are a cost for Starling as they have no network of their own; they're not even part of Link.

I'm not sure that the paltry interest they can gain from business deposits will be enough to make those accounts profitable (they just announced another £60m of funding this week).

I'm a relatively happy personal customer of Starling, so I'm not against them, but I do think it's a bit optimistic to say Starling's business accounts are profitable based on no evidence.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by dbetteridge on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:48PM (#22302022)
Can confirm on Monzo being awesome

1) Sign-up quick and painless (You need a UK address though)

2) Card arrived in a few days

3) Activation just requires tapping it to your phone

Going to have to check out these meetups, sounds like fun.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by corford on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:17PM (#22302956)
I'd strongly recommend having two: Nationwide as your base and a challenger for international wires/multi currency (I use revolut but there are lots of others).
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by Matsta on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:47PM (#22303268)
I use Monzo as my main account but I have got a Nationwide Flex Plus account which gives you really good phone, travel and breakdown insurance for £13/month
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by alibarber on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:23PM (#22302403)
Transferwise's borderless account might also be worth a look too if you need to hold or regularly spend money in other currencies.

I've moved the opposite way and have been quite happy with it.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by riffraff on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:05PM (#22302843)
Does TW have a banking license? I seem to recall they don't, so your money wouldn't be insured in the same way, or something like that.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by matthewheath on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @08:39PM (#22304941)
If TransferWise were to fail, you would not be entitled to compensation (up to £85,000) from the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS) — this is a scheme that banks and building societies authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority sign up to and fund.

TransferWise is only registered with the Prudential Regulation Authority as an e-money service authorised to provide payment services. You can search the register at https://register.fca.org.uk.

In reality, they appear to hold the funds with Barclays so if TransferWise failed, you'd get the funds back. It's only if Barclays themselves became insolvent that you'd be out of pocket since you wouldn't be covered by the FSCS.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by alibarber on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:21PM (#22303000)
True - I don't think so. There are regulatory assurances that they ringfence the money and you should be able to get it all back should they go under, but yeah I would be wary of using them as the only place to keep my money or substantial sums. They are super useful for receiving and sending money to/from different countries though, reasonabble fees.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by riffraff on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:56PM (#22303346)
they absolutely are, I've used it for something like 6 or 7 years, and have had almost zero issues. I even paid for my wedding celebrations with transferwise-moved money :)
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by Shoue on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:32PM (#22301804)
Both Monzo and Starling are good. If you're good at budgeting and never dip into negative balances I suggest getting a cashback or points credit card too, and then you can simply put your income into an instant savings account until you need it for the monthly direct debit to pay off your credit card and earn interest _and_ cashback/points.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by Nextgrid on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:46PM (#22302001)
Cashback is very low in Europe (thankfully) due to the interchange fees being capped by law.

Frankly even in the US I personally wouldn’t bother using credit cards. The management overhead of maintaining one (you have to pay it off on time, have 2 balances to look at, etc) is IMO not worth the money.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:02PM (#22302809)
In the UK you get additional purchase protection when you pay by credit card, which can be useful on larger purchases - lots of people have been saved by this when companies have folded.

https://www.moneysupermarket.com/credit-cards/guide-to-credi...

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by lmm on Wednesday February 12, 2020 @03:20AM (#22306943)
What management overhead do you have to do? Set up a direct debit to pay off the balance in full every month (and set it to happen on the same day as your other bills, shortly after your paycheque comes in). Pay everything on the credit card, so that that's the only balance you have to check. Get on with your life, and enjoy either cashback or the occasional free flight.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by fredophile on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:46PM (#22302657)
A credit card that pays 2% back on all purchases is pretty easy to get in the US. Since cashback isn't taxed this is close to 3% in pre-tax dollars. If having a balance on the card and money in the bank is too confusing you could just pay it daily on days that you use it. I'd say the minimal effort is worth the reward in this case.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by Nextgrid on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:04PM (#22302828)
> pay it daily

Unless I can automate this it’s still an extra step I can’t be bothered to do.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by smabie on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @06:50PM (#22304262)
And you get to invest the money in the mean time. If you manage to get a bunch of cards you can just roll over your credit and earn bond or equity returns on the deferred payment. It’s totally worth it, you can make thousands of extra dollars this way.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by jonathanbull on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:27PM (#22301745)
I highly recommend Monzo.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by LinusU on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:32PM (#22301805)
I've been using Monese since I moved here ~2.5 years ago. It was great as I was able to open the account in the weeks _before_ moving over, and thus already had a ready to go payment card & UK Bank Account when I arrived!
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by wikibob on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:42PM (#22301922)
Monese is not a bank. They are not covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (Equivalent to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation FDIC in the USA).

They are an "Authorised Electronic Money Institution" like PayPal. If they go bankrupt, you will lose all your money.

https://register.fca.org.uk/ShPo_FirmDetailsPage?id=0010X000...

I'd strongly recommend you open a real banking account.

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by weddpros on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:07PM (#22302241)
"If they go bankrupt, you will lose all your money " is not entirely true, according to Monese's FAQ:

https://support.monese.com/hc/en-gb/articles/115002002229-Is...

"Unlike banks we do not re-invest customer funds and have to keep all customer money separate to our own company finances. We are required by Regulation to Safeguard all funds received from Monese customers. This guarantees that even in the unlikely event that Monese is no longer in business, all of our customers would receive 100% of their balance back"

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by growse on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:46PM (#22302658)
This assumes that no-one has criminally run off with the money, lost it down the back of the sofa etc. It's also not clear under what law their customer funds are not treated as company assets, in which case if they're bankrupt, the creditors get first dibs.

The point of the FSCS is that it doesn't matter what happens to your bank. The government will pay you back up to £85k of what you had there.

So while it's not a given that if they go bankrupt you "will" lose all your money, just that you "may" lose all your money. :)

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by matthewheath on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @08:49PM (#22304989)
> It's also not clear under what law their customer funds are not treated as company assets, in which case if they're bankrupt, the creditors get first dibs.

Insolvency events are covered by section 24 of Part 3 of the Electronic Money Regulations 2011.

"24. (1) Subject to paragraph (2), where there is an insolvency event—

(a) the claims of electronic money holders are to be paid from the asset pool in priority to all other creditors; and

(b) until all the claims of electronic money holders have been paid, no right of set-off or security right may be exercised in respect of the asset pool except to the extent that the right of set-off relates to fees and expenses in relation to operating an account held in accordance with regulation 21(2)(a) or (b) or 22(1)(b).

(2) The claims referred to in paragraph (1)(a) shall not be subject to the priority of expenses of an insolvency proceeding except in respect of the costs of distributing the asset pool."

So, these funds would be kept secure from other creditors and paid out as a priority.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/99/part/3/crosshead...

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by antaviana on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:57PM (#22302756)
In any case, unless their mattress is big enough, they still need to put that customer money somewhere, possibly in a bank who can re-invest customer funds.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by LinusU on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:49PM (#22302039)
Hmm, good to know!

According to their site 100% of my funds should be covered since they are required to hold any client funds in a separate account which they cannot use for anything at all.

https://support.monese.com/hc/en-gb/articles/115002002229-Is...

Not sure what the implications are with that vs being a "real bank"

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by walshemj on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:45PM (#22301972)
Asuming your from outside the UK

Id also open a second backup account with one of the high street banks Satandares fairly good on rates and Nationwide has a pretty good Cash ISA

Longer term I would go for ii if you want to get into Shares ISA's

Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by Nursie on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:30PM (#22301782)
Monzo and Starling are the big two challengers, and worth a look.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by toyg on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:33PM (#22301808)
Starling.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by nullandvoid on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:41PM (#22301920)
No card alias support at the minute they are trailing behind there
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by Nextgrid on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @02:47PM (#22302008)
Curious, what’s card alias?
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by mynameisvlad on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:34PM (#22303126)
I'm guessing they're referring to having virtual cards you can use for one transaction or merchant, and which you can kill at any time without having to change your primary card number.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by nullandvoid on Wednesday February 12, 2020 @05:13PM (#22313387)
Virtual cards.. sorry had forgot the name at the time thought the card alias term would be obvious haha
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by insomniacity on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:15PM (#22302941)
Well this thread is now the top Google result for 'uk bank "card alias"', so if it wasn't a thing before, it is now!
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by toyg on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @03:31PM (#22302505)
Depends. At least your money is actually protected by UK laws. Unlike, say, Revolut. No idea about Monzo.
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by qubex on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @04:43PM (#22303224)
Revolut
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by distances on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @06:21PM (#22304058)
Revolut has acquired quite some infamy due to their employee/applicant treatment. Not sure I'd want to keep my money with them
Re:N26 will be leaving the UK by AdamGibbins on Tuesday February 11, 2020 @06:46PM (#22304223)
Revolut are not a bank, they're not operating as one and are not regulated as one, so do not get FSCS protection. They hold a banking license with Lithuania, however are not actually issuing accounts under it - and if you read about Lithuania's banking system its all rather Iceland like and I don't have high confidence in it.

I would not store my money with them.