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Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by stared on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @06:48PM (#22123320)
It seems that flying with pets in cargo space is not only traumatizing to animals - it can be deadly: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/is-taking-your-pet-on-....

For me it is hardly surprising that people who love their dogs or cats (and essentially treat them as family members) would go the extra mile to take them in the cabin, to ensure their physical and emotional safety. The alternative is to treat them as a disposable piece of luggage (which IMHO is inhumane and cruel for a life companion, human or not).

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by oliwarner on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @08:10PM (#22123886)
The rest of us know this. We rediscovered a long-forgotten technique that keeps the animal safe: we don't take them on a plane at all.

We leave them with friends, in boarding kennels and catteries.

Having your pet with you 24/7 is —for most people— an unnecessary kink, an expression that we've got too used to getting our own way.

It's not healthy. Get a grip.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by asdff on Thursday January 23, 2020 @01:53AM (#22125431)
Sometimes you need to travel with your pet. Unavoidably. Maybe you can't afford to kennel. Maybe you are moving. There are a thousand variables in this as to why an animal is brought from one place to another, and the way we do that long distance is through air travel.

Already it's normalized. No one is protesting in the streets about a cat aboard a plane.

Screeching infant, however? I'd vote to kennel.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by toasterlovin on Thursday January 23, 2020 @10:21AM (#22128203)
> Screeching infant, however? I'd vote to kennel.

Babies are humans and I think most people would agree they should be given preferential treatment over pets as such.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by lxmorj on Thursday January 23, 2020 @12:17AM (#22125046)
I bounce between two cities (not something I planned on when I got the pup) and when I’m gone for a week or two my pup stays w my mother. It’s odd that there is NO amount of money short of NetJets money that will let you bring a 35lb dog in a plane without the ESA cert. I’ve asked to buy her seat, keep her crated, belt the crate into the seat, etc. The options are drive, stow the dog under the plane and cross your fingers it’s only traumatic, or get the ESA.

Airlines could do so much better with price discrimination than they do. Back three rows are dog rows, one dog per row. Pay double for the ticket. First airline to do it will make a killing. Have a behavior and temperament verification course if you like. Make the little guys wear a Hannibal lector mask if they’re big enough to be dangerous. The current system minimizes revenue, convenience for dog owners, and doesn’t preserve convenience for non-dog owners. It’s mind boggling.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by dudus on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @11:18PM (#22124827)
What if you're moving from one country to another? Or from New York to CA?

People might have legitimate reasons on why they need to move their pets.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by mrnobody_67 on Thursday January 23, 2020 @12:25AM (#22125076)
you'd check in your dog in cargo, give it tranquilizers, and pray it comes out alive on the other end.... elderly dogs or dogs with congestive heart failure or short nose dogs with breathing problems...
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by sushisource on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @06:58PM (#22123404)
I totally get that, but, she wasn't moving or anything. Just going on a weekend visit somewhere and wanted to bring the dog.

Hire a dog sitter, maybe? Or as another commenter mentions, if you care that much, pay for a seat for your non-service dog. Something many airlines still let you do, you just have to pay for it.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by triceratops on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @07:07PM (#22123466)
I wasn't aware you could buy an additional seat for your pet. I didn't think space was the issue - rather it was behavioral issues e.g dog starts panicking from the noise or change in air pressure and the disruptions that could cause to the operation of the flight. Plus passengers with allergies.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by asdff on Thursday January 23, 2020 @01:57AM (#22125444)
Should we not bring our dogs anywhere in public then? The onus is on the owner to control their animal in public or else they'd get fined or whatever. Air travel should be no different than a park.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by triceratops on Thursday January 23, 2020 @02:39AM (#22125645)
I love dogs; have one myself. But there are lots of shitty owners out there that let their dogs run amok. On the ground that's merely annoying, but in the air it can be far more serious.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by toasterlovin on Thursday January 23, 2020 @10:19AM (#22128191)
The problem is that an airplane cabin is a confined space and if there is a behavioral issue, nothing can be done about it until the plane is landed somewhere.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by bzbarsky on Thursday January 23, 2020 @11:50AM (#22129100)
> The onus is on the owner to control their animal in public

Unfortunately, most do not. And then they just go "oh, she's friendly, don't worry", when their dog jumps up into some 3-year-old's face and scares the crap out of them...

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by stared on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @07:05PM (#22123443)
> Hire a dog sitter, maybe?

This is inconsiderate. Would you write "hire a babysitter, maybe?"?

Extra fee for an in-cabin (non-service) animal is perfectly understandable. I haven't seen that option, though.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by coldtea on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @07:38PM (#22123667)
>This is inconsiderate. Would you write "hire a babysitter, maybe?"?

Lest we forget, in this 21st century nonsense, dogs are not actual children.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by asdff on Thursday January 23, 2020 @01:59AM (#22125453)
Personally, I'd go for the whimpering dog sitting behind me over the screeching infant for the whole flight.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by mrr54 on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:18AM (#22126072)
>This is inconsiderate. Would you write "hire a babysitter, maybe?"?

I'd love if people hired babysitters (or left children with family) instead of taking their SCREAMING children on airplanes, sure.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by moftz on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @09:42PM (#22124346)
Last time I did it (and it will be the last time...), it was $200 for the dog to go in a soft pet carrier under the seat and you could only check in at customer service so better be there an hour earlier than normal. I don't think our tickets were even that much. I can totally empathize with someone bringing a fake ESA in the cabin for financial/convenience sake.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by jliptzin on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @09:57PM (#22124426)
Yea, what services is the airline providing in exchange for that extra fee? That’s what I never understood. They charge $100-300 for cargo that has to stay under the seat in an enclosed carrier the whole time. I could understand an extra deposit, that is only lost if the pet causes actual damage to the airline, but otherwise if all goes smoothly (as is probably the case 99% of the time), it should be free. People are understandably recognizing that airlines are just bilking pet owners as much as possible, just because they can.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by zaroth on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @11:06PM (#22124768)
Or, just maybe, the added customer support requirements for dealing with customers with pets in the cabin actually costs the airlines tens of millions of dollars per year, and your idealized version of the perfect pet voyage which doesn’t negatively impact any airline operation or fellow customer experience is not taking into account the total possible impact.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by nulbyte on Thursday January 23, 2020 @06:25AM (#22126642)
Maybe the fee is not intended to recoup actual cost but act as a deterrent. Of course, if you charge high fees while blindly accepting "emotional support animals" to mean something other than pet, people find easy ways around it, so it doesn't really work that well.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by manigandham on Thursday January 23, 2020 @12:59AM (#22125206)
It's paying for the 1% of the time (likely much higher) that things don't go smoothly.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by dorkinspace on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @06:57PM (#22123397)
The other alternative is to leave the pets at home.

I love my dog but no way will I take him on an airplane in any manner. So we board him when we go on vacation.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by derefr on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @06:59PM (#22123410)
I think the valid use-case to contend with here is people moving permanently, not vacationing.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by triceratops on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @07:05PM (#22123444)
There do exist pet transportation services. Or you can do a road trip to your new destination.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by derefr on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @07:06PM (#22123457)
People move over water, you know. Sometimes even while still being in the same country! (You can bring your pets from the continental US to Hawaii; there aren’t even quarantine periods for it.)

Those pet transportation services are for large animals like horses, and for exotics. The costs are prohibitive for regular pets (i.e. not your million-dollar tiger.)

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by triceratops on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @07:14PM (#22123514)
This website says international moves cost "up to $2.5k". Pricey, but not prohibitive.[1] Long-distance moves are usually pretty costly anyway.

1. https://pets.costhelper.com/pet-shipping.html

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by throwlaplace on Thursday January 23, 2020 @10:02AM (#22128026)
2.5k "not prohibitive". lol alright. I've moved 3 times over seas. Never has is cost anywhere near 2.5k (including when my family moved to the US in 91).
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by triceratops on Thursday January 23, 2020 @01:07PM (#22129995)
91 was almost 30 years ago. $2.5k today is the cost of an economy round-trip ticket from the US to someplace like India or China around the December holidays.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by baddox on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @09:15PM (#22124212)
I think if the only animals in airplane cabins were service animals and pets of people moving long distances, the impact would be extremely small. It wouldn't be an extremely common hassle that essentially every flyer has to deal with.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by RandomBacon on Thursday January 23, 2020 @08:49AM (#22127473)
There are quatantine periods.

Source: I lived there and have friends whose pets had to go through quarantine. You can either do the quarantine on the mainland before travel, or in Hawaii after travel.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by parsimo2010 on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @07:35PM (#22123645)
If we’re being snarky, ships also move over water you know, and you can ship your animal in a crate and the crew can feed it and clean up after it, regardless of size. People shouldn’t have to put up with your dog peeing/crapping in the cabin on a long transoceanic flight. It can ride in the cargo hold or on a ship just fine.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by moftz on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @09:45PM (#22124361)
Lots of pets die in the cargo holds. Nothing but luggage should really be down there.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by hbosch on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @10:05PM (#22124461)
Where does your dog or cat go to the bathroom on an overseas, international flight?
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by zaroth on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @11:08PM (#22124781)
Ideally? In a litter box.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by jghn on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @06:56PM (#22123390)
It's understandable why they do it. It is still wrong, and as the OP noted it could wind up ruining things for everyone who has a real service animal.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by lotsofpulp on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @06:51PM (#22123333)
And I don’t trust random people’s pets to be well behaved and would rather not risk sitting next to them.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by i_am_nomad on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @06:55PM (#22123379)
As you shouldn’t, there have been at least two horrible incidents in the last year or so where “ESA” dogs mauled another passenger.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by mirimir on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @07:07PM (#22123461)
I've been bitten three times by dogs. Twice as a door-to-door canvasser, and once by a friend's pet. And I've seen others bitten by friends' pets.

So I would not be comfortable on a plane with any dog that wasn't in a cage, or at least muzzled.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by wavefunction on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @06:56PM (#22123385)
The real alternative is to kennel your pets or hire someone to pet-sit.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by azinman2 on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @06:52PM (#22123356)
There are special services for transporting animals outside of typical flights.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by gnicholas on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @07:41PM (#22123682)
Well you can also not lie and pay for the animal to travel in the cabin.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by yellow_postit on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @09:07PM (#22124166)
This is not true. Dogs for example must fit under the seat in a kennel to be in the cabin vs cargo on most airlines. That limits size to <30lbs in most cases. Traveling with a pet in cargo on a plane that has a heated and pressured hold is very doable however and airlines publish their safety records for pet transit.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by dx87 on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @11:01PM (#22124740)
Most airlines I've seen will allow you to buy a ticket for your dog so it can have its own seat to sit in. Doesn't need to be in a kennel or anything.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by lxmorj on Thursday January 23, 2020 @12:19AM (#22125055)
Show me how please!
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by mrnobody_67 on Thursday January 23, 2020 @12:24AM (#22125071)
i've driven for 20+ hours on 7+ occasions to avoid checking in my dog.... would never do it unless absolutely necessary 1-time thing (relocating to another continent).
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by reaperducer on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @06:55PM (#22123378)
it is hardly surprising that people who love their dogs or cats (and essentially treat them as family members), would go an extra mile to take them in the cabin,

People have been flying with animals in the cabin for decades. I've done it three times with cats since the 1990's.

The difference is that back then, it was to transport the animal from one side of the country to the other safely, so the animal stayed in its container under the seat.

Today, attention whores treat other living creatures like they're fashion accessories, and let them run around the cabin and sit in the seats and do whatever they want, as long as it gets them the attention they crave.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by bpicolo on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @09:22PM (#22124256)
> The difference is that back then, it was to transport the animal from one side of the country to the other safely, so the animal stayed in its container under the sea

Many, if not most, of these folk just have larger dogs that don't qualify for under-seat.

I drove my golden retriever across the country on three occasions (~130 hours of driving all told?). I wish there were a reasonable and ethical flight option, but I would never trust an animal to cargo.

Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by kingbirdy on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @09:46PM (#22124362)
I fly dozens of times a year. I've seen plenty of animals flying properly (in a soft sided crate, under the seat). I have never once seen an animal allow to run around the plane, and I imagine if someone tried to do that with their animals the flight attendants would put a stop to it quite quickly, given the obvious hazard that poses.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by reaperducer on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @10:21PM (#22124531)
Just yesterday there was an article in my Apple News feed about an uncrated rabbit on an airliner.
Re:U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes by kingbirdy on Wednesday January 22, 2020 @11:04PM (#22124757)
Are you referring to this article (it was the only recent one I could find about a rabbit on a plane)? https://www.insider.com/rabbit-business-class-flight-photos-... The article explains that the rabbit was brought on to the plane in a crate, but was allowed out by the flight attendants, since the passenger had an empty seat next to them and the attendants enjoyed playing with the rabbit. That hardly sounds like "attention whores [who] treat other living creatures like they're fashion accessories, and let them run around the cabin and sit in the seats and do whatever they want". It is another example of potential abuse of the concept of an ESA, but I certainly wouldn't want to subject my pet to the conditions of the cargo hold for a trans-pacific flight.