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Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by officemonkey on Sunday December 29, 2019 @10:05AM (#21906211)
> So why have eBooks failed so miserably, when other media such as movies and music now sell and rent so well online?

Repeat after me: the average person doesn't read. The market for ebooks is a fraction of the market for movies and music.

OTOH, there is a viable market because there are such things as "avid readers" (people who read more than one book a month.) Those are the people ereaders are made for.

I predict that ebooks will be like jazz records: they not terribly popular, but they'll still be made because there's a devoted audience.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by rgoulter on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:24AM (#21906670)
Tangential, but even movies and music are smaller than the games industry.

The entire, global music industry, for 2016, was worth $16 Billion. The global movie box office total for 2016 was just over $38.6 Billion US dollars. [...] Meanwhile PC games alone earned $34 Billion (including sales, DLC, subscriptions and in-game transactions). Console games pulled in $30 Billion (including hardware, games and services). and Mobile games topped $40 Billion (sales and in-game transactions).

https://www.quora.com/Is-the-Video-Game-industry-bigger-than... (Which isn't sourced, but the numbers seem consistent with this https://www.vanillaplus.com/2018/07/05/40093-video-games-mar...)

I don't know what the numbers are for ebooks; this link says 1 billion US dollars revenue in the US market.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by unlinked_dll on Sunday December 29, 2019 @12:24PM (#21907088)
Comparing box office revenue to "sales, DLC, subscriptions, and in game transactions" is extremely disingenuous.

You should compare it to box office, streaming subscriptions, licensing/syndication revenue, concessions...

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by danShumway on Sunday December 29, 2019 @12:10PM (#21907001)
Appreciate the tangent. I knew the video game market was doing well, I didn't know it was doing this well.

This is surprising to me, I wold have assumed movies would still be bringing in more revenue.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by lusmd on Sunday December 29, 2019 @10:05PM (#21910457)
Streaming revenue is about the same as box office revenue, so the disparity isn't as big. But still, that's a lot of gaming revenue.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by hydgu on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:50AM (#21906872)
I think lumping console/PC games with mobile games is a mistake. There are some exceptions, but they usually work completely differently.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by hombre_fatal on Sunday December 29, 2019 @12:05PM (#21906977)
But they weren't lumped together. They are distinct line items in their post. Not sure what the concern is anyways, their claim is clearly supported by the numbers: games are much bigger than music and movies. You can ignore the mobile games figure and it's still true.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by ikeboy on Sunday December 29, 2019 @10:18AM (#21906273)
The overall market for books is roughly the same as that for music and movies. Quick googling says $27 billion for books, $16 billion for music, $41 billion for movies in the US. Not digging in to those numbers but if we assume they're roughly in the correct ballpark then it's all similar market sizes.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by brianwawok on Sunday December 29, 2019 @10:19AM (#21906280)
Is that including stuff like textbooks?
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by CriticalCathed on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:26AM (#21906690)
It does. It includes all publishers and academic journals. I would wager a huge portion of that 27 billion is textbooks in k-12 & university, and journals; though, I haven't been able to find the raw data.

[0] https://www.bookstats.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/BOOKSTA... (page 1, bottom)

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by sfifs on Sunday December 29, 2019 @10:20AM (#21906284)
Well NO ONE I personally know buys or keeps physical books any more except for children's books if they have kindergarten or primary school kids. Everyone's book collection is on the Kindle including middle school and high school kids. Living in a tropical/sub-tropical humid climate, the tendency of physical book collections to deteriorate or grow mould is a major liability especially if you have small kids.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by EliRivers on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:26AM (#21906688)
Whereas I genuinely think that everyone I know buys, owns and keep physical books. Some have only a few, some have hundreds and thousands, but all of them do.

I do live in a country comprised entirely of Oceanic and Subpolar Oceanic climate, though.

There's selection bias here; people tend to know people like themselves and people like each other. Be it people like themselves because they work together, or live near each other, or have similar hobbies, or are from the same family, or some other non-random selection bias, but however it happens, people tend to know people like themselves and people like each other. I have thousands of physical books and probably acquire a few dozen more each year; I tend to like people who like physical books, and presumably you do not.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by ghaff on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:44AM (#21906821)
>There's selection bias here; people tend to know people like themselves and people like each other.

And, presumably, someone who is young, mobile, and lives in a small urban apartment (and knows mostly people in the same boat) will tend to default to lugging and storing less stuff than older folks who have a roomy house. I know if I were starting out today I'd almost certainly have less of a physical footprint than I did in college and immediately afterwards.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by EliRivers on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:53AM (#21906886)
Ha. You could almost be talking about me, as was. Moved in to this apartment 15 years ago, not long out of university. Been through a half-dozen jobs since then, ranging from less than ten minutes' walk away to literally in a foreign country (not remote working either - moved there while still paying rent on this one), and I'm starting to think that I'm going to end up buying a house purely to be able to build a proper library room for the books.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by mplanchard on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:04AM (#21906545)
My wife and I have a collection of several hundred physical books, and while the size of our collection is unusual among our friends, nearly all of them have a collection of some size, even if it’s just in the 10-20 book range. Pretty much everyone I know has at least one category of books they prefer printed, often textbooks and cookbooks, even if they generally use ebooks. We’re in Austin, currently, so we don’t have the mold problem you mention, but I grew up in coastal Mississippi and New Orleans and never had that problem unless the books were stored out in a shed or something. Several of our physical books are ~200 years old, and while I understand that an ebook will conceivably live for that long, I am suspicious that it would remain useful, given changing devices, formats, publishers, etc.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by hrktb on Sunday December 29, 2019 @02:44PM (#21907986)
Anecdotally I see a strong clustering. I have friends with a ton of books, and their other friends also heavily liking books and physical goods (CDs, cards etc.) in general.

My other friends tend to have basically nothing in terms of physical books, music, movies.

I’d wager it depends on how people see physical goods in general: is it an asset or a liability ? And the “minimalist” switch might become more and more attractive when people prefer to rent instead of going into debt.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by dejj on Sunday December 29, 2019 @10:48AM (#21906453)
I order physical books by calling my bookstore, so I can pick it up there. To me, random access time in print is superior to ebooks. I wish it was possible to flash an entire bookshelf full of epaper tomes in seconds so I can reap the best of both worlds.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by WaltPurvis on Sunday December 29, 2019 @01:53PM (#21907655)
This must be unique to your "tropical/subtropical humid climate" because surveys consistently show the vast majority of books bought by high school kids are print, not electronic.

In addition to data, I'd also like to offer some counter-anecdotes: I have a large collection of printed books to which I'm still regularly adding, I know many other people who do also, and I can only think of a couple of people who've told me they've stopped buying printed books and do all of their reading on the Kindle.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by withinboredom on Sunday December 29, 2019 @07:01PM (#21909572)
Not everywhere has climate-controlled homes. In most of the tropical places I've been, air conditioning is a luxury.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by lostlogin on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:36AM (#21906752)
I don’t think you can assume that what you see necessarily reflects the industry. Independent book stores are doing well in the small market where I am (New Zealand).
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by giaour on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:05AM (#21906550)
I buy physical books whenever they're cheaper than the Kindle version. Publishers don't want to compete with remaindered or used physical books.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by Jamwinner on Sunday December 29, 2019 @02:31PM (#21907910)
This describes zero people I know. Is this now common?
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by cdelsolar on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:20AM (#21906641)
Um, I much prefer physical books.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by criddell on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:25AM (#21906678)
One day, if your eyesight gets worse, you may start to love ebooks just for the ability to set the font larger.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by cbg0 on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:28AM (#21906704)
This is the number one reason I don't buy physical books, I hate having to read super small fonts on crappy quality paper.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by EliRivers on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:36AM (#21906755)
On the other side of that coin, sometimes when I buy a physical book I seek out a really good one because I want to own a good one. Paper that feels nice with printing done well (and in some cases smells nice - ever smell a No-starch Press book? I can pick them out of my bookcases blindfold, by the scent).

Expensive binding that will last; covers that are a pleasure just to hold. Nobody like to read super small fonts on crappy quality paper, but there's a real pleasure in seeking out and buying a really good quality book.

I've even done this with books that I've read in cheap paperbook format and enjoyed so much that I want to own one (or in some cases, more than one; usually when my search reveals something unusual - for example, when I went looking for a copy of Marisha Pessl‎'s "Special Topics in Calamity Physics" I found a hardback ARC print that came with some extra bit n' pieces - a little pack that must have been sent to a reviewer by the publisher). Sometimes the good printings sold out years before and I have to track down one second hand in perfect or near perfect condition.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by criddell on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:44AM (#21906823)
I can appreciate all those things about great books. However, all of that is secondary to actually being able to read it for me. If my eyesight gets bad enough, I'll probably switch to audio books.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by EliRivers on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:47AM (#21906855)
That does sound rough. I suspect if I ever reach the point that I cannot read my own books, I'll not do well mentally...

There's always the physical assistance of a stupidly bright light and a well shaped magnifier :)

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by billpollock on Monday December 30, 2019 @12:25AM (#21911014)
Thank you. We care a lot about the physical form of our books. I appreciate quality and I'm pleased to see that you do, too.

I'm thinking of ways to make our books even a bit nicer. Not sure yet what that will mean but I'm still thinking on it.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by EliRivers on Monday December 30, 2019 @04:39AM (#21912155)
Well, so far you've got the scent right, the feel of the paper is good, the colouring is good, the binding is good, and whoever is in charge of typography is doing well - the layout of code and the font changes and how specific lines are reference and so is all good. I've not yet been stung by counterfeit printings either.

Now that I think about it, is the distinctive scent actually coming from the binding? I've had a dig through my shelves and my copy of "Programming Linux Games" from 2001 does still carry that scent, even though it doesn't state "RepKover" on the back. I see that it does carry the Linux Journal Press tag on it as well as No-Starch. I'd forgotten about that, but now I look, those early titles certainly were Linux heavy.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by mcguire on Sunday December 29, 2019 @01:53PM (#21907654)
I have to wear readers for ebooks (and all screens) no matter how large I set the font because I don't want the text blurry.

Most of the time, text on paper is better. The exception being very small text on glossy paper (Norman Friedman, Naval Firepower).

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by wrycoder on Sunday December 29, 2019 @12:05PM (#21906976)
I’m sitting here reading HN on an iPhone. The font is less than half the size of a typical book.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by k__ on Sunday December 29, 2019 @10:22AM (#21906296)
I do, but only as a present.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by ghaff on Sunday December 29, 2019 @10:21AM (#21906295)
Furthermore, eBooks just aren't a very good format for many types of books. Fiction that's 99% flowing text--and some non-fiction? Sure. But even though I buy $1 and $2 eBook cookbooks when there's some special going, it's mostly a lousy format for that sort of thing--much less "coffee table" books in general.

eBooks have ended up being a sort of niche as you say. Not a wholesale revolution of the publishing industry. Probably not that much of a bigger deal than print on demand at the end of the day.

TBH, a lot of the same forces that helped create eBooks have actually limited how many books a lot of people read. I'm pretty sure I read as many words as I ever did but I read fewer books.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by rta5 on Sunday December 29, 2019 @10:44AM (#21906440)
What is your evidence for the average person not reading? Trying to find some numbers I came across the following pew research poll that showed nearly 3/4th of their survey participants reading a book in one format or another in the last 12 months.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/09/25/one-in-five...

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by chadlavi on Sunday December 29, 2019 @12:56PM (#21907300)
> reading a book in one format or another in the last 12 months

That study is a binary "read at least one book at all or read 0", doesn't indicate how many books the people who made it through one book finished. I would not call someone who reads one book a year an avid reader.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by lupire on Sunday December 29, 2019 @11:30AM (#21906717)
Average 4 books a year.

Compare that to tv and movies, by count or hours.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by superhuzza on Sunday December 29, 2019 @01:30PM (#21907504)
>Average 4 books a year.

Where does it say that? Couldn't find that on Pew Research source.

Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by cosmodisk on Sunday December 29, 2019 @12:50PM (#21907267)
These are interesting stats
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by victor106 on Sunday December 29, 2019 @01:55PM (#21907670)
In our reading club even the most ardent readers of only physical books converted to using iPads/Kindle. I hear the same from my other social circles as well. So it would be very hard at this point for the publishers to try to kill off ebooks. They should have done it at least 5-7 years if they ever had a chance.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by cosmodisk on Sunday December 29, 2019 @12:47PM (#21907248)
At some point in history people would have killed for an ability to access almost any book without any problem. When we finally got to tne point, people rather watch films or scroll endlessly on Instagram.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by mcguire on Sunday December 29, 2019 @02:33PM (#21907921)
Your argument applies to physical books, as well.
Re:Publishers Determined to Kill E-Books by ddingus on Sunday December 29, 2019 @03:04PM (#21908087)
Hmmm, just like Text Adventure games.