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Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by endorphone on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @10:28PM (#21699343)
In a way this seems like an admission of the failure of the "Alphabet" thing. The idea behind that originally was that all of these other projects were going to become so significant that it wouldn't make sense to have them or their management coupled with Google.

But a half-decade later, it's still 99.9% Google, so just double-up the Google guy to lead both tiers. Same as it ever was.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by dragonwriter on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @05:57AM (#21701183)
> The idea behind that originally was that all of these other projects were going to become so significant that it wouldn't make sense to have them or their management coupled with Google.

No, the idea was that they were high risk speculative efforts and that it didn't make sense to have their branding mixed up with Google, which is a stable, established industry leader.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by koheripbal on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @08:01AM (#21701779)
That's a semantic distinction. All major corporations have highly speculative projects that they aren't certain will succeed. With (relatively) minor investments most don't form an umbrella corporation to distinguish them.

In this case, I dont see anything else coming out of non-Google alphabet of meaningful significance, and this org change kind of highlights that.

In my personal opinion, the Google founders probably still DO have some radical plans, but I bet with the increased scrutiny in Congress and abroad they are thinking the Google vrand is more of a liability than an asset.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by dragonwriter on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:30AM (#21702423)
> That's a semantic distinction.

No, separating branding and separating management are substantively different ideas, not a matter of semantics.

> All major corporations have highly speculative projects that they aren't certain will succeed. With (relatively) minor investments most don't form an umbrella corporation to distinguish them.

That doesn't support your argument that it's a semantic distinction, it instead seems to be an unrelated argument with some implicit premises that argues that most corporations wouldn't have done what Google did to separate Alphabet in similar circumstances, which may or may not be true but is irrelevant to what the point was of Google doing it.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by inlined on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:12AM (#21703398)
Don’t the companies now also give different financial reporting? Alphabets companies have wildly different expected growths and margins expected. It totally makes sense to be clear with investors that Google’s margins aren’t suffering, Alphabet is just investing upfront capital in Verily or Fiber
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by JohnJamesRambo on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:17AM (#21702829)
Google kills so many projects that they killed their own holding company.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by stopads on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:35PM (#21705344)
In the past major corporations used to launch speculative research projects and risky ventures, but that rarely happens any more. All the resources are being shifted to stock buybacks, everything else is a secondary priority.

Some companies like Chevron and Texas Instruments have even committed in writing to "returning 100% of all cash flow in perpetuity" to buybacks and dividends. So yes, they have legal contracts saying they won't agree to invest in future growth or investments or research no matter how much money they make, they are so committed to this buyback first model.

Google is a true leader in the buyback wars, they were the first company to commit to $25B in buybacks per quarter, which used to be a shockingly large number for these programs. Lots of other companies have followed that pattern since.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by auiya on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:16AM (#21702296)
> I dont see anything else coming out of non-Google alphabet of meaningful significance

YouTube. But in general I agree with you.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by derp_dee_derp on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:29AM (#21702409)
YouTube was pre alphabet, was a purchased acquisition under the Google umbrella, and didn't "come out of non-google alphabet"
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by jbms on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:39AM (#21702490)
YouTube is part of the Google division of Alphabet as it makes money primarily from advertising.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by hordeallergy on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:42AM (#21703096)
Does anyone know how the subscription YouTube is working out? They sure are putting a good effort into getting me signed up.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by auiya on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:08PM (#21704980)
I'm a subscriber, mostly because of YouTube Music. I wanted a music platform where I get push notifications of new music by artists I follow. This feature is broken in Spotify and they have no plans to fix (their words). It seems like a simple enough request, but it turns out this feature is also not available and/or broken in YouTube Music. I keep the subscription SOLELY to watch YouTube ad-free now, and for that it is awesome; but I'm considering switching to another music platform. It's hard for me to cancel my subscription to YouTube though because removing all the ads from YouTube is the only thing that makes it actually useful as a platform.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by maxwell on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:26AM (#21703547)
YouTube Premium is great. I'm happy to pay Google directly, but I've moved away from most of their ad-supported products, including Search.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by spudlyo on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:58PM (#21705655)
If you love YouTube and hate advertising, then Premium is a very easy decision to make. I'm more than happy to pay Google $12 a month so I can have an ad-free experience on my TV, iPad, phone, and computer.

I have both Netflix and HBO-Now as well, but I'm thinking about canceling them, as 90% of my viewing time is spent on YouTube.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by magduf on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:27PM (#21706543)
One really nice thing about YouTube is that you can download your favorite programs there with "youtube-dl". I don't know if that works for the premium stuff though (I doubt it). So if you want to download, for instance, all the Rick Steves episodes and then watch them on your plane flight (where you don't have free internet access, or someplace else where the service isn't fast enough to watch YT), it's easy to do, and impossible with those other services.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by jlarocco on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:49PM (#21704705)
Maybe it's a way to signal that a project might last longer than 5 years before being killed off on a whim...
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by londons_explore on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:36AM (#21700581)
The original reason was that smart people like career progression. Money alone isn't enough to keep them - they want something good on their business cards. Otherwise some will leave to become CEO of another company.

By making a group of companies, you can have many CEO's, more directors, more VP's, etc. and therefore keep hold of more smart people who are after external recognition more than money.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by mrec on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:58AM (#21701758)
Careerist people like career progression. I think that's largely orthogonal to smarts or lack thereof.

I doubt Einstein cared very much what was on his business card. Patrick Bateman certainly did.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by mstade on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @08:33AM (#21701984)
In the case of the latter the shade and quality of the paper might've been even more important than what's printed on it. ;o)
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by HelloMcFly on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @08:56AM (#21702146)
I doubt Einstein cared what was on his business card, but I'm sure he cared very much about being in the right career position to do the work that interested him, and to have the ability to influence his work and others.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by wickedwiesel on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:44PM (#21706123)
I dont want to nitpick, but some of his most influential work - dubbed the "annus mirabilis" papers / "amazing year" [0] - was done while he was an assistant examiner at the patent office in Bern. Definitely not a position he was aiming for, but still, a highly productive time.

- [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annus_Mirabilis_papers

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by mrec on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:05AM (#21702212)
Sure, but GP's argument was about job titles, not about what work you're doing.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by HelloMcFly on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:18AM (#21703456)
Typically job titles as noted in that post accompany some varying level of responsibility and leadership. If this is simply about what title is on your card then OK, sure. But in my experience, many (not all) are seeking the autonomy and influence behind those titles. Einstein had titles too, but it was the influence and work behind those titles he wanted. It's the same for many "careerists", a term I do not like.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by mrec on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:35AM (#21703661)
I think you're losing sight of the original argument I was responding to: that a main reason for spinning off bits of Google as separate Alphabet subsidiaries was to allow job title inflation for the same role.

There's only one CEO per company, so if you want more CEOs you need more companies. Being CEO of Waymo probably isn't that different from being Manager of the Autonomous Cars Division or whatever, but it sounds more impressive.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by magduf on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:29PM (#21706565)
>There's only one CEO per company,

Usually, but not always. When I was at Intel, they had two CEOs. They called it "two in a box" for some odd reason.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by neuronic on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:04AM (#21702202)
But you forget that to Patrick Bateman the (so called) greater good and broad knowledge expansion or other humanity-propelling criteria weren't nearly as relevant as the question if Patrick Bateman appeared successful.

The image of Patrick Bateman was more important to Patrick Bateman than Einstein or his accomplishments.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by mrec on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:08AM (#21702229)
I'm not sure whether I'm missing your point or you're repeating mine. Caring about job titles for their own sake strikes me as narcissistic.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by Gene_Parmesan on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:16PM (#21704203)
It is, but most people are at least slightly narcissistic. Most people get at least a little bit of validation & happiness from obtaining a "better" job title. Also, it's not really just the plain title itself, but the trust the company has in you that it represents. Being able to say to somebody, "I'm VP of ____" gives you some cachet in today's middle/upper-middle class.

Sure, there are also people who couldn't care less what their title is, but I can't help but feel that most people would find the possibility of a 'better' title at least moderately motivating.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by foobiekr on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:57PM (#21704822)
Titles are a currency in some parts of society. I am strongly anti-title and also pretty strongly anti-celebrity but I think it’s important to recognize that these things both have value to most of the people around you.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by throwawayhhakdl on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:52AM (#21703193)
Theory of Relativity - Albert Einstein, Senior Executive Patent Clerk
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by tomp on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @06:05AM (#21701214)
You could easily do that by having sub-companies of Google instead of sub-companies of Alphabet.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @06:19AM (#21701270)
I think the reason they went for this is so that the sub-companies would not be at risk if Google (the search engine / advertising giant) had a problem.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by chisleu on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:55AM (#21701733)
I think that was the other way around.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by dannypgh on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @10:33PM (#21699363)
I don't think it was mostly motivated by management separation, as much as it was desire to break out revenue and expenses by unit. And this is unchanged.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by koheripbal on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @08:02AM (#21701782)
You can do that even within a company. You certainly dont need separate share classes.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by dannypgh on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:30PM (#21709995)
You're conflating a lot of things here. GOOG class A versus C (GOOG vs GOOGL) dates to a 2014 restructuring of ownership, whereas the Alphabet reorg was in 2015.

Can you break out revenue in a single company? Sure. But you can also easily do it with the structure Alphabet adopted. And, this structure also lends itself to easier valuations of entire units, useful if acquisition of a unit is something being considered.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by tyre on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:30AM (#21703600)
> The idea behind that originally was that all of these other projects were going to become so significant that it wouldn't make sense to have them or their management coupled with Google.

This isn't entirely true. A major consideration was fear of anti-trust litigation. If all of these are the same company/orgs/departments, then you could reasonably say that this "search company" is far too powerful. If there's a search company and a youtube company and a self-driving car company (etc.) then you can make a (specious) argument that you're not vertically and horizontally a monopoly.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by dhimes on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:19PM (#21705896)
This was my understanding as well.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by numbsafari on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @11:54PM (#21699700)
Removing the “firewall” between Google and Google Health will prove to have been a big mistake. They should have stayed separate under Alphabet.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by headmelted on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:26AM (#21699844)
Yup.

Congress is already whispering about the Ascension deal and how it affects the Fitbit buyout with regards to them intervening.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by partingshots on Thursday December 05, 2019 @03:05AM (#21710691)
What “Ascension deal” are you talking about? Also, do you have a source for what you’re saying?
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by headmelted on Thursday December 05, 2019 @04:37AM (#21711063)
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by davidwihl on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @04:35AM (#21700827)
keeping it as separate entities meant that useful data could not be shared. Under one org, more data can be safely shared while respecting user privacy.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by zaarn on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @04:48AM (#21700883)
Except Google doesn't respect privacy.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by linza on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:44AM (#21701667)
I doubt think this is accurate.

Google might not respect the desire for an open internet without ads and no single large player.

But i believe they fully respect their users privacy, comply with most of the law around privacy already, and have the strong desire to fully comply with it in the future.

Maybe I'm naive that way. But painting them as not respecting privacy at all is a bit blunt and not nuanced enough.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by sbarre on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:56AM (#21701740)
Saying "they fully respect their users privacy" is also blunt and not nuanced.

They are a huge company with thousands of teams pursuing their own agendas and made up of people of varying degree of scruples and viewpoints with regards to privacy.

I've worked for large companies that handle sensitive user data, and they all have at least some teams of people trying to figure out how they can respect the letter of privacy laws just enough, while ignoring the spirit of those laws, in order to profit from the personal data they hold, regardless of the potential side effects or long-term impact on the data subject.

Google is probably no different.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by linza on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:28AM (#21702408)
What i meant was that i believe they try to follow the law around privacy. The law might not be "good enough", but that's in us not them (modulo the lobbying).

I'm not trying to say larger companies are innocent. Saying they don't respect privacy insinuates to me that they intentionally violate the law, and i don't think that that's true.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by sbarre on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:26PM (#21705243)
If you only base good/bad actions around the law (which I understand is really the only _real_ reference point we have), then that's part of the problem.

Technology moves faster than the law, we all know this.. What we need are ethical companies who not only respect the law but also respect the data owners.

We need a company with a motto like "don't be evil" or something like that.. if only, right? ;-)

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by detaro on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:09PM (#21708574)
Then they don't respect their users privacy, they respect (or not) the laws.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by jeremyfranco on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @08:09AM (#21701819)
> they fully respect their users privacy

The data shows they do not.

Google Is Fined $57 Million Under Europe’s Data Privacy Law: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/21/technology/google-europe-...

Google Is Fined $170 Million for Violating Children’s Privacy on YouTube: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/04/technology/google-youtube...

There is even a Wikipedia page about Google VS users privacy

Privacy concerns regarding Google: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_concerns_regarding_Goo...

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by naniwaduni on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:27AM (#21702397)
Compliance with privacy law is not a good indicator of respect for users' privacy when you're in a position to nudge privacy legislation to limit its impact on you.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by chenning on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:31AM (#21703611)
I'm not saying you're wrong, but there certainly is evidence out there that suggests Google in fact does respect user privacy. For example, activity.google.com. They are also pretty up front about their privacy policy, how they use cookies, data retention policy, and so forth on policies.google.com. There is a lot of information there.

There's a case to be made that Google is trying to do the right thing.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by zaarn on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:59AM (#21703947)
What Google does is try to look like they're respecting privacy and following the privacy laws only to the minimum amount possible.

Google of course cares a lot that your data doesn't get into the hands of other companies, after all, it's THEIR data. That's were their care ends.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by mr_woozy on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:15PM (#21705092)
this ++
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by beerandt on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @05:05AM (#21700967)
I don't understand how being under Google vs being under Alphabet changes that.

They're still fundamentally one org sharing data with itself. If anything, I would think the company segregation would make it more complicated and difficult, wrt logistics, legality, and internal politics.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by davidwihl on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @05:24AM (#21701046)
No they are separate corporations. Verily has received two rounds of non-Alphabet funding. https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/verily-2
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by beerandt on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @06:34AM (#21701327)
Which is why it doesn't seem to simplify anything. There is still data crossing some form of corporate boundary, just a different one.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by raverbashing on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:50AM (#21700157)
Sundar seems to be turning into Google's Ballmer, for better and for worse.

The lack of direction, apart from the bigger projects is noticeable.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by thetruthseeker1 on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:33AM (#21700562)
How? Apples and Oranges comparison
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by thu2111 on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @06:18AM (#21701264)
Lack of any obvious vision or ideas: a safe pair of hands. The similarities are there, and not just Sundar/Ballmer but Sundar/Ballmer/Cook. It seems visionary CEOs like to appoint non-visionary successors. Someone who won't make big changes to their baby.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by nostrademons on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:18PM (#21704221)
https://a16z.com/2010/12/16/ones-and-twos/

This is often inherent in the organizational structure of big companies. To the extent that there are visionaries in a big company, they're usually not anywhere on the executive team, or even anywhere that the CEO comes in direct contact with. If they were, they'd clash with the CEO's vision, which first of all would be confusing and inefficient for the organization and second is a power contest the CEO would win. So if the board wants to appoint a visionary from within, they usually need to reach several levels down in the org hierarchy, to someone who's run an innovative division semi-independently but been protected from overall company politics. If they elevate this person to CEO, everyone above them in the org chart will quit, as they've now been passed over for the top job.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by thu2111 on Thursday December 05, 2019 @04:49AM (#21711103)
Great link, thanks. I think you and a16z must be exactly right about it.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by taneq on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:16AM (#21699792)
What do you mean, "failure"? Google hasn't been hit with an antitrust lawsuit which makes it an unmitigated success!
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by C14L on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @06:44AM (#21701360)
> still 99.9% Google

Maybe they should just rename the whole thing to "AdWords" then...

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by Mikeb85 on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:17AM (#21699804)
It's not an admission of failure. Two businessmen created one of the most successful, influencial businesses ever and are passing the torch. They're rich AF and probably want to retire.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by hyperpallium on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:40AM (#21700121)
Parent specifically said a failure of the "Alphabet" thing.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by oarabbus_ on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:32PM (#21704450)
He's talking about the decision to make the Alphabet conglomerate, not Sergey and Larry. Obviously no one disputes the two of them are extremely successful.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by cryptica on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @05:52AM (#21701171)
They probably understood that the game is rigged in their favor and no matter who is leading the company, they will be just fine anyway. Also, playing a rigged game gets boring after a while.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by fjrufjfjfu on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:22AM (#21700047)
I don't know man. Doesn't that sound a little bit suspicious? If you were to create Google why would you just peace out? Look at Bill Gates. He still wants to do things but the google founders are all MIA. How do guys like that just lose all ambition and disappear?
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by Mikeb85 on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:44AM (#21700138)
I don't know their lives. Maybe they will do stuff like Bill Gates. All I know is that if I were them, I'd have stepped down long ago. Either way they achieved great success and are leaving on a high. I don't know how anyone can interpret it differently.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by kelnos on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:28AM (#21700079)
If I had created Google I would have peaced out looooong ago.

Sure, I wouldn't disappear completely, but I'd work on low-stress things where I have a lot of free time and don't have so much responsibility under me.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by alexis_fr on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:24AM (#21700274)
> low-stress things where I have a lot of free time and don’t have so much res...

Or children ;) John Lennon famously quit music for 5 years to raise his second child, after failing his first marriage.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by kelnos on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @05:08PM (#21757408)
Children... low-stress things... hmm, you seem to have different tastes than I do ;)
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by mac_was on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:34AM (#21700570)
Create Google first and we will all see :-)
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by kelnos on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @05:11PM (#21757439)
I'm looking at early retirement in the next year or two. I'm certainly not anywhere near as financially successful as Brin or Page or Pichai, and I doubt I've put in as much stressful work as they have, but I've done ok for myself, and I'm looking forward to doing literally anything I want with my time, without having to answer to anyone, whether it's a boss, investors, or board of directors.

I guess only time will tell how much I like this arrangement, but I'm pretty optimistic about it, and am tired of hearing the usual "oh but you'll be bored and want to work again" tropes. There's a lot more to life than work...

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by tonyedgecombe on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:39AM (#21700118)
Perhaps they didn't envisage it turning into a giant surveillance and advertising machine. I doubt that is what they imagined when they started on their PhD's.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by narrator on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:44AM (#21702542)
Move along, nothing to see here.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by kouh on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:05AM (#21700427)
A similar question was at the center of Atlas Shrugged
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by jacquesm on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:09AM (#21700443)
That's not exactly a standard work on business management advice.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by guelo on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @06:29AM (#21701294)
Are you proposing that Larry and Sergey are starting a secret society of billionaires who are withdrawing their genius contributions from society as a protest against government regulations?
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by pferde on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @05:46AM (#21701140)
If Larry and Sergey were the kind of people that were quitting and disappearing in the book, they would not quit, but instead try to sneakily dismantle Google from within, like d'Anconia in the book. :)
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by anonytrary on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @11:39PM (#21699621)
Even if your observation is correct, it's not a bad thing. A failed experiment is hardly a failure. I doubt the legal border between Alphabet and Google won't prove useful in the future.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by hinkley on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:49PM (#21709825)
I'm of mixed emotions here.

I am both cautious enough of Google that I've started avoiding using some of their products, and still have an opinion on how they should organize themselves that has very little to do with those feelings.

I was sort of hoping Alphabet would be a spot they could stick all of the projects that aren't going to make a billion a year. I think it still makes sense to maintain projects that 'only' clear $20+ million a year in another division. That would cover a lot of projects that are getting cancelled and causing them serious PR problems (like accusations of being a group of spoiled man-children who can't be relied upon to stick with anything for longer than four years).

Basically there's a lot of space to make money and products that they won't touch, and I don't think it has anything to do with Wall Street. It's just an artificial limitation they've imposed upon themselves.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by dickeytk on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @11:17PM (#21699528)
I think Waymo still has a solid shot
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by celeritascelery on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @11:30PM (#21699588)
How much money is waymo making?
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by rjvir on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:10AM (#21699773)
It's a money sink right now, but has an obvious path to becoming a juggernaut.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by kamaal on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:56AM (#21700391)
Time will tell. But the more you sit on it, the more easy it gets for other people to catch up.

By now even companies like Tesla and Volvo can do most of what any one can do. And they actually have usable cars.

Google inventing AGI will be a great deal though.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by jacquesm on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:11AM (#21700454)
Anybody inventing AGI would be a big deal, but (1) don't hold your breath and (2) it could just as easily be a negative for Google and for the rest of us.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by raisedbyninjas on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:15AM (#21703419)
TBF, doing most of what a Waymo car can do is the easy part.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by rreichman on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @11:32PM (#21699595)
people asked the same thing about facebook in 2008
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by celeritascelery on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @11:41PM (#21699631)
Facebook was started by one college kid 4 years prior. Waymo has had the resources of one of the largest companies in the world for the last 10 years.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by Ragib_Zaman on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @11:59PM (#21699723)
And their core goal of truly autonomous vehicles is a technical challenge that at this point seems like it will take at least several years more than what they originally thought 3 years ago. Their situation is not similar to FB in 2008 at all.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by chrischen on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:26AM (#21699842)
Even if they overcome this the bigger question is whether the market opportunity is worth the R&D costs, and whether or not bulky self driving vehicles are the best and most lucrative solution to mass transit.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by kendallpark on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:07AM (#21699988)
Speaking of market opportunity, are there SDVs being tested in outside of California and Arizona? The rest of the US gets its fair share of rain, snow, and ice. Even if the Bay Area can manage self-driving cars, when would we expect a rollout in places like Minneapolis or Boston?
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by jfim on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @04:18AM (#21700757)
Yes, there are. Off the top of my head, in the US:

Las Vegas (Aptiv), Pittsburgh (Aptiv, Aurora, Ford, Uber ATG), Dearborn MI (Ford), Miami (Ford), Washington (Ford). There's also a retirement community in Florida that Voyage is testing in.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by andygcook on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @08:31AM (#21701964)
nuTonomy is testing in Boston too.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by efraim on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:41AM (#21700342)
Volvo is testing self driving cars on public roads in Sweden.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by tsimionescu on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:42AM (#21700128)
I think the CEO of Waymo has already said that that driving in bad weather is likely much farther away.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by bart_spoon on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:14AM (#21702815)
That seems like a huge problem. Even places with idyllic weather like California can have bad days. I'm skeptical of anything purporting to be a revolution in transportation when it will largely limited to a few select areas and is prone to catastrophic failure based on something as common as snow or rain.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by bethling on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:43AM (#21700355)
They tested Waymo out in Kirkland Washington for a bit. It doesn't have snow, but I'm sure they got a lot of data about wet conditions.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by SweetLlamaMyth on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:02AM (#21700414)
Because of the elevation of parts of CA & AZ, it's absolutely possible to encounter snow and ice (and even whiteout conditions on interstate highways!) in those states, if you make the effort to find it. A smart testing team would make the effort to head for the mountains when the forecast calls for wintery weather.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by umanwizard on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @08:09AM (#21701818)
You're right, and not just rural areas.

Flagstaff, AZ (pop. ~70,000, and double that in the metro area) has colder average lows than NYC during the winter, and several times more snow.

It's the closest major(-ish) town to the Grand Canyon, which is about 75 miles away.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by jeffreygoesto on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @02:00AM (#21700192)
Or Mumbai? Or Jakarta?
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by Godel_unicode on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:15AM (#21700475)
Even if the answer there is "never", so what? Do we really need to set the bar at "replace all vehicles everywhere in all situations" for it to be a success?
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by kevingadd on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @06:13AM (#21701246)
It becomes much harder to justify buying a self-driving car if there are many parts of the country where I can't drive it. Even a mid-tier sedan can be driven all the way up the west coast from southern california to Seattle as long as you have chains and wait for the pass to be open. Waymo's cars are designed to not even have steering wheels, last time I checked...
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by chrischen on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @08:16AM (#21701848)
Most likely due to Waymo being not designed for personal consumer use... but I’d also say they are pretty detached from having to deal with real societal problems.

Self driving cars is indeed a cool technical problem to solve if you asked an engineer, but if you asked society what it needed I doubt self driving cars would be the answer.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by chrischen on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @04:34AM (#21700823)
No but there is an opportunity cost to the research on self-driving that could potentially be spent on other methods that seem less cool.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by anonytrary on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @11:39PM (#21699625)
Facebook in 2008 had a singularity of users, so people were more comfortable with the answer.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by snarf21 on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:18AM (#21703449)
I don't think it was a failure at all. It was a hedge against slowing ad revenue growth. They didn't want the billions they spend on moonshots dirtying the books of the ad business. This was specifically to keep the stock price moving up and up. I think they should find someone new to be CEO of Alphabet so they can focus on the non ad business companies.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by surewhynat on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @11:27AM (#21703557)
Plus they got to change the name that appears in investment portfolios, and take the opportunity to appear at the top, since they are almost always alphabetically ordered, and at the very least they would be appear above Amazon since l comes before m, and also above Apple.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by hdhgzwhegh on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:25AM (#21700056)
Alphabet was always mostly just a shell game for manipulating headlines about failing or political projects away from Google.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by golemotron on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @06:55AM (#21701414)
The reason reason is that antitrust is coming. Larry and Sergey are stepping out of the fire.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by slowenough on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @12:09AM (#21699764)
not that I know anything but it seems like the decision was complex both to create the Alphabet and now to kind of merge it under one CEO.

I think some of the reasons could be they no longer see a risk of anti Monopoly regulation targeting them so they don't need to keep everything so divided. they genuinely want to give Sundar a go. They need a process to gradually fade out The original founders, but also importantly ensure those founders isolate their risk from any future missteps the companies take, and vice versa.

maybe the two co-founders were simply getting in the way.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by sidcool on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:34AM (#21700103)
Anyone who thinks Google is a failure should reconsider. They have had their share of bad decisions, but nothing has yet challenged their dominance. They keep spreading to other areas of tech. They may not dominate the AlphaBets, but they sure attract attention and investment.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by mhartl on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @01:43AM (#21700134)
My read is that the parent commenter isn’t saying that Google is a failure, but rather that the “Alphabet” branding was a failure.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by jacquesm on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:14AM (#21700469)
I don't know any other company that people love to hate. A large number of those will flee Google in droves when/if a viable alternative presents itself. Their lock-in on email and dominance in search may be enough of a moat to last forever but if your users (paying and free) hate you then you are on borrowed time.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by sverhagen on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:36AM (#21700575)
Facebook too. I hate both with a similar passion. But I'm in tech and thanks to HN I have a vague idea how the sausage is made. Do regular users share our dislike of these companies? If not, which is what I suspect, this fleeing will be mostly nonexistent.
Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by SuoDuanDao on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:56AM (#21702651)
I think generally, people do hate both, though neither as much as Twitter.

Personally I feel most strongly about Google, because I really believed the marketing back in the day. Took me a long time to get disillusioned, and when I did I felt all the worse for having been a supporter for so long.

Re:Sundar will be the CEO of both Google and Alphabet by magduf on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @03:33PM (#21706605)
Why would anyone hate Twitter? I mean, I don't care for it either, but it doesn't really affect me because I simply don't use it. I don't have an account, and really don't pay attention to it, except for all the "tweets" from Trump in the news.

Facebook is different. It's pretty hard to avoid using Facebook without being an outcast in a way, if all your friends and family are on there and they use it to communicate, schedule events, etc. There's also Facebook Marketplace which seems to have taken over for Craigslist for selling stuff locally. I'm one of those people who has an account there, but never actually posts anything, but I keep it because I have a few people who insist on using it to communicate; I've met lots of people like this.

Twitter just isn't like this at all. I think it's dumb, but it's easy to ignore.