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Re:Firefox 71 by MikeTaylor on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @12:52PM (#21694690)
Did the FireFox people ever explain why they abandoned a more typical version numbering system and instead started releasing a new major version every couple of weeks?
Re:Firefox 71 by Lammy on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:05PM (#21694836)
Google started it with Chrome, and Firefox had to adopt it too or look like an also-ran. More info here: https://news.softpedia.com/news/Firefox-to-Copy-Google-Chrom...

Chrome was three years old and on version 10.0 when this was published, and Firefox was on version 4.0 despite a decade of Mozilla legacy. It’s marketing, plain and simple, but I think it was the right decision.

Re:Firefox 71 by roca on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:44PM (#21695243)
I was there when this decision was discussed and made. It was nothing to do with marketing.

The really important decision was to switch to a rapid, time-based release cycle from a traditional long, feature-based release cycle. We wanted to reduce the amount of work that was "fixed in the next release" but not yet shipped to users; to increase our responsiveness, so that if a new feature suddenly became important, we could quickly get it into the hands of users; and to avoid developer issues like schedule chicken and rushing to get not-really-done features into a release because the next release is far away. This change was indeed inspired by Chrome, and it worked well; those goals were achieved.

Then a much less important question was how to do version numbering in a world where you're doing these frequent releases. There is no technical reason why some releases should bump a major version number and others should not; the amount of new features or breaking changes will fluctuate from release to release, but the same kinds of changes are present in every release. It is therefore simpler to just have a uniform numbering scheme so no-one has to decide whether a release should bump the major version number, and users aren't trying to understand the difference between a major version bump and a minor version bump (when there isn't really a meaningful difference).

Re:Firefox 71 by paulryanrogers on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @05:16PM (#21697420)
> There is no technical reason why some releases should bump a major version number and others should not; the amount of new features or breaking changes will fluctuate from release to release

Then why have three parts to the version? You could just have the cycle version based on the schedule and a patch/fix subversion.

Re:Firefox 71 by jamienicol on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @10:15AM (#21702825)
ESR releases get minor version bumps. Eg 68.3 got released at the same time as 71.
Re:Firefox 71 by jotm on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:54PM (#21695339)
I don't care either way, but they'll have to switch to something else at some point, cause the numbers will look ridiculous. Firefox 157... Firefox 349... Firefox 1071

Intel's processor names already look ridiculous to me. Core i9-10980XE? Can't say that with a straight face, "normal" people seemed confused way back when Sandy Bridge got released

Re:Firefox 71 by faho on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @02:37PM (#21695821)
Considering `less` is at version 551, they still have quite some time left.
Re:Firefox 71 by Lammy on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @02:15PM (#21695576)
They could do like NVIDIA and switch back and forth between two, three, and four digit model numbers every decade or so as the numbering scheme gets stale. I remember having a GeForce2 MX400, then a Ti4600, then a 8600, then a GTS 250, then a GTX 460, then a GTX 970, then a Quadro P4000, and now they seem to go for a hybrid scheme where they have the two-digit "16 series" or "20 series" containing four-digit models like 2080 :p
Re:Firefox 71 by ygjb on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @02:17PM (#21695590)
Why is that a ridiculous name? It's from the Core X family of processors, is an i9 (which generally means more cores and cache than an i7), it's a 10th gen processor, which since 9th gen, also means that it has hyper-threading, as opposed to 9th gen and later i7s), and most importantly, as a product name is unique enough to make it easy to look up the technical specifications.
Re:Firefox 71 by Wowfunhappy on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:24PM (#21695027)
I feel like consumers are smarter than this? I don't think anyone chooses iOS because it's on version 13 versus Android's version 10.

The difference also becomes less meaningful as the disparity grows. If Chrome is on version 78, and Firefox is on version 6 (or whatever), it's relatively intuitive that "versions" don't mean the same thing between the two. Same with the Playstation 3 versus Xbox 360, really.

Most people probably don't even know what version they're running, anyway.

Re:Firefox 71 by TylerE on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:28PM (#21695069)
Consumers are in fact this dumb.

That's why it was the Xbox 360 and not the Xbox 2, because XBox 2 < Playstation 3.

Re:Firefox 71 by Wowfunhappy on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:31PM (#21695116)
I'm aware that this was Microsoft's original thinking behind the Xbox 360's name, but then they called their next console "Xbox One".

That felt to me like Microsoft deciding that their original concerns had never been legitimate.

Re:Firefox 71 by smt88 on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @02:02PM (#21695432)
"One" instead of "1" suggests unity and oneness, rather than a version number.

I still think it was an awful branding decision, though.

Re:Firefox 71 by ljm on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @02:29PM (#21695754)
Considering how the PlayStation has dominated the market without messing around with branding like that, it seems like MS dropped the ball by bike-shedding the name instead of nurturing quality content.
Re:Firefox 71 by VRay on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @03:02PM (#21696114)
<ArmchairExecutive> Personally, I think Microsoft should have put way more effort into polishing their Kinect user experience. The X-bone could have been everything that the Echo/Siri/Google Home ecosystems evolved into if Microsoft had just worked harder on polish up front.

Instead, Microsoft pretty much alienated their core gaming base in order to half-assedly fail at a broader goal. They didn't even manage to push through more than a couple of decent Kinect v2 games </ArmchairExecutive>

Re:Firefox 71 by TylerE on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @03:20PM (#21696265)
PS didn't dominate that generation. It outsold the 360, but only by about 5%.

Ironically the PS 4 did outsell the X1 almost 2:1.

Re:Firefox 71 by jorvi on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:32PM (#21695124)
That doesn't hold up because they went Xbox One vs Playstation 4.
Re:Firefox 71 by coldpie on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:37PM (#21695172)
At this level, the market demands non-linear value. http://achewood.com/index.php?date=01132006
Re:Firefox 71 by Lammy on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:50PM (#21695307)
Same reason it's such a cliché for the fourth movie in a franchise to drop the number and have a subtitle like 'Revolution' or 'Revelation' or 'Revenge'. I assume marketers imagine the public's reaction to a '4' like "Look at you with that new _sequel_. How could you BE so cocky?!"
Re:Firefox 71 by gmiller123456 on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:45PM (#21695249)
I don't think anyone chooses iOS because it's on version 13 versus Android's version 10.

Users generally choose the phone, not the OS. And the most popular phones are pretty close on the numbering schemes.

Another example is SSL and TLS. SSL 3.0 was the last version, then TLS 1.0 took over, but a lot of people still thought SSL 3.0 was the latest and best.

Re:Firefox 71 by Krasnol on Thursday December 05, 2019 @01:26PM (#21714783)
Most non IT people I know, use Chrome because "one day it was just there". Installed through some freeware program where they forgot to uncheck a box.

Yeah...people are not that smart.

Re:Firefox 71 by mythmon_ on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:04PM (#21694817)
The recent change to having a releaes every 4-5 weeks is a small modification of the existing practice of having a new version every 6-8 weeks.

The 6-8 week schedule is about a decade old now. It's original goals were to help ensure that unrelated features didn't block each other from releasing, and make releases more consistent, which helps localization, testing, and project management. In that regard I think it's been very successful.

It's probably not worth nitpicking a decade old decision though.

Re:Firefox 71 by kekebo on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @12:54PM (#21694716)
Re:Firefox 71 by agapon on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @05:48PM (#21697708)
Just my 2 cents. I think that the traditional versioning system is most useful for libraries and other shared components. It is much less useful for "end programs" for end users (aka applications).
Re:Firefox 71 by coldpie on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:35PM (#21695153)
I'm not sure what you mean by "more typical." If you mean the "major.minor.bugfix" thing that was the norm for a while, I think we've all realized it's basically useless. So many projects had no criteria for incrementing the major number, so it would just sit at 0. or 1. forever, informing no one of anything. So don't think of it as "a new major version every couple of weeks," think of it as dropping the implied (and useless) "1." major version with a new minor release every couple of weeks :-)
Re:Firefox 71 by usrusr on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @03:59PM (#21696641)
But now actual major changes are unnecessarily hard to communicate to non-technical users. If e.g. the "quantum" activation could have been celebrated with a once-in-a-couple-of-years major increment, far more people would have taken notice, with much less marketing effort. A rarely incremented major number is a marketing tool, a continually incremented number is merely a vector clock.
Re:Firefox 71 by asymmetric on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @12:59PM (#21694758)
Yes, see this[0] for example.

If memory serves me right, the TLDR is that the more typical release management system can cause certain features to not be released as soon as they're ready, because other features that should go in a major release are not ready yet.

By removing the semantic component of release numbers and releasing often, this does not happen. Feature ready -> shipped soon.

[0]: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/09/moving-firefox-to-a-faster...

Re:Firefox 71 by retonom on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:11PM (#21694900)
Well, actually it was introduced after Chrome switched to this same model. So it looked like Chrome is advancing faster because they released a new major version every few weeks and it got more press. I suppose that's why they really switched. If it would be just a matter of the management system you'd better adapt the system instead of version numbers. Anyway, after so many "major" releases the press has died down. So what we have now is version numbers that are quite meaningless because you can't pin major changes in the architecure to version numbers anymore.
Re:Firefox 71 by mythmon_ on Tuesday December 03, 2019 @01:06PM (#21694843)
I'd say that Firefox versions are mostly a unit of time now, since they aren't generally semantically meaningful in the way semver is. While working on Firefox, we often make plans that are delineated not in weeks, months, and quarters, but in Firefox releases and the nightly/beta/release cycle associated with them.