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Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by RankingMember on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @09:16AM (#21323243)
> On August 2, 2017, Equifax notified the FBI of the Data Breach. It also retained legal counsel to guide its investigation into the breach. The same day, Equifax’s legal counsel retained Mandiant to assist in the investigation into the incident. Experts would later note that these steps suggested that Equifax knew that the Data Breach was serious. In the days immediately following the discovery of the Data Breach, Gamble and Ploder sold more than $1 million in Equifax stock. On August 1, Gamble, Equifax’s Chief Financial Officer, sold stock for $946,374, representing more than thirteen percent of his holdings. On August 2, Ploder sold stock for $250,458, representing four percent of his holdings. These sales were not made pursuant to a Rule 10b5–1 trading plan. Smith would later state in congressional testimony that Ploder and Gamble would have been in many of the meetings he had concerning the Data Breach.

Am I crazy or is this not blatant insider trading?

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by kjaftaedi on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:29AM (#21323967)
It's sad how obvious this is. Possibly even more obvious than the insider trading at intel prior to the spectre/meltdown public release.

This will be forever the legacy of Eric Holder, the man who changed the justice department policy to go after smaller 'fines' as settlements instead of prosecuting crimes.. only because of the simple fact that fines are easy to win, and criminal cases can be lost.

Justice is now escapable because it's been deemed "too difficult to pursue"

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by 50656E6973 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:14AM (#21324547)
>changed the justice department policy to go after smaller 'fines' as settlements instead of prosecuting crimes.. only because of the simple fact that fines are easy to win, and criminal cases can be lost.

This policy change could also perhaps be attributed to lobbyists seeking to maximize profits and minimize risks for corporate clients who are knowingly breaking the law.

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by ericmay on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:23PM (#21327566)
Sure, which is the fault of the people and the government, as far as I’m concerned. If an elected official is corrupted or doing something we disagree with, it’s our job to fix it.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by AriaMinaei on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:52PM (#21327255)
> On March 6, 2013, Holder testified to the Senate Judiciary Committee that the size of large financial institutions has made it difficult for the Justice Department to bring criminal charges when they are suspected of crimes, because such charges can threaten the existence of a bank and therefore their interconnectedness may endanger the national or global economy. "Some of these institutions have become too large," Holder told the Committee, "It has an inhibiting impact on our ability to bring resolutions that I think would be more appropriate.

> Prosecution rates against crimes by large financial institutions are at 20-year lows. Holder has also endorsed the notion that prosecutors, when deciding to pursue white-collar crimes, should give special consideration to "collateral consequences" of bringing charges against large corporate institutions, as outlined in a 1999 memorandum by Holder. Nearly a decade later Holder, as head of the Department of Justice, put this into practice and has demonstrated the weight "collateral consequences" has by repeatedly sought and reached deferred prosecution and non-prosecution agreements and settlements with large financial institutions such as J.P. Morgan Chase, HSBC, Countrywide Mortgage, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs, and others where the institution pays a fine or penalty but faces no criminal charges and admits no wrongdoing. Whereas in the previous decade the Bush administration's Department of Justice often sought criminal charges against individuals of large institutions regardless of "collateral consequences" such as cases involving Enron, Adelphia Communications Corporation, Tyco International, and others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder#Criminal_investiga...

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by doctorpangloss on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:40PM (#21327735)
This is missing the perspective of just how much a disaster Obama inherited in 2008.

Also I get that it's Wikipedia, but the comparison to Bush is ridiculous. The Enron story is a long one. Here's Gray Davis's perspective on exactly what it means that the Bush DoJ "sought criminal charges:"

> "I inherited the energy deregulation scheme which put us all at the mercy of the big energy producers. We got no help from the Federal government. In fact, when I was fighting Enron and the other energy companies, these same companies were sitting down with Vice President Cheney to draft a national energy strategy."

Furthermore the whole reason Holder is using the term "collateral consequences" instead of "collateral damage" is because that term was used by Dick Cheney and the press to describe why he does not care about civilian deaths in Afghanistan and later Iraq. It would be a stretch, but surely the lack of investigations into no-bid war contracts like Halliburton's had as much to do with their "collateral consequences" on military operations as it would on their paychecks.

Obama inherited multiple quagmires due to disregard of the consequences of criminal justice policy.

Normal people will never be on the wrong side of a banking fraud, except if their bank goes out of business. What is justice there?

So while I believe bad people should go to jail, I sympathize with Holder's point of view.

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by ahi on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:17PM (#21328100)
This is a terrible take. For 8 years, whenever Obama or Holder were asked to make things right at the expense of their future employers, they proclaimed just how powerless they were. The White House and the DOJ have the power to squash wall street like bugs, and make "normal people" whole. They CHOSE not to.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by Akinato on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:48PM (#21325827)
People that are so rich/connected that they can become "too difficult to pursue" seems like a good step towards becoming Gotham.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by geggam on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @01:20PM (#21326211)
When you reach a critical mass of people with nothing to lose the wealth will balance again, usually through violence.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by dhimes on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @05:01PM (#21328476)
I visited Cuba this year. I can confirm.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by werm82 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:20AM (#21324633)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the job of the SEC to investigate the insider trading, and then call in the DOJ if they deem it necessary to file criminal charges?
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by calibas on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:34AM (#21324820)
I'd like to defend Eric Holder. It's no secret what he does or who he works for. He's a lawyer that works for the big banks and other powerful industries, his job is literally to keep them out of legal trouble.

We should be pointing the finger at the people who knew all these things and still put him in charge of the justice department. We should also be pointing the finger at the ones who have the power to change these policies now, but fail to do so.

At this point Holder is just a scapegoat.

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by colpabar on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:47AM (#21325027)
Nah, doing that might actually prevent things like this from happen, so we should all downvote you instead.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by calibas on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:00PM (#21326744)
Now we've got William Barr who has worked for Pillsbury and Kirkland & Ellis. You know, the exact same groups who represent scumbags like Epstein and BP...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkland_%26_Ellis

Meanwhile, I'm some kind of "radical" for even pointing this out...

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by ineedasername on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:32AM (#21324803)
Not just too difficult, but reinforcing the idea that with enough money, you can buy your way out of trouble.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by nullc on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:12PM (#21327445)
> Justice is now escapable because it's been deemed "too difficult to pursue"

Only for entities which are wealthy enough to effectively defend themselves against the awesome power of federal prosecution!

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by naringas on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:35AM (#21324837)
"too big to prosecute"??
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by excursionist on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:38PM (#21328262)
> Justice is now escapable because it's been deemed "too difficult to pursue"

Only if you're rich enough.

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by mtgx on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:08AM (#21324460)
No, Eric holder's legacy will be not going after bankers because that could hurt the economy. His solution was to rather leave the criminals in place instead of suffering any sort of short term pain (if that).
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by oneepic on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:00AM (#21324364)
I'm confused why they didn't get prosecuted (at least not yet). The CIO actually got fined and sent to prison for insider trading: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndga/pr/former-equifax-employee...
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by magashna on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:45PM (#21325791)
Of course the IT guy goes down while the CFO runs out the back door with a fistful of dollars.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by devin on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @01:59PM (#21326729)
Calling a CIO “the IT guy” is ridiculous.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by magashna on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:01PM (#21326752)
As opposed to? The CIO is generally overseeing everything IT.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by dave5104 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:41PM (#21327142)
Probably as opposed to calling the CFO "the finance guy" in the same sentence as "the IT guy".
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by magashna on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:11PM (#21328058)
I call the CFO the money guy and the CEO the boss guy. I work at a pretty relaxed company though so it flies.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by vervez on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:18AM (#21324603)
Scapegoat?
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by mateus1 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:28AM (#21323956)
Apparently both execs have been cleared of an insider trading charge.

https://gizmodo.com/equifax-investigation-clears-execs-who-d...

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by RankingMember on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:37AM (#21324073)
Basically "We investigated ourselves and found there was no wrongdoing." As the top comment there notes, they're positing that the director of US Information Security wasn't aware of the data breach until 2 weeks after it was uncovered.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by WrtCdEvrydy on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:57AM (#21325178)
"hey man, we're all selling our shares, but we can't tell you why"
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by otterley on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:36AM (#21324058)
... by their former employer, not the SEC (the enforcing authority here).
[dead]
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by falcor84 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:10AM (#21323746)
Yup. According to formal logic, the answer then is just yes.

p or true => true

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by throwaway744678 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:23AM (#21323884)
In natural language, "or" generally means "xor" - as is the case here.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by pdonis on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @01:04PM (#21326029)
p xor true => true
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by scarejunba on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @01:22PM (#21326241)
Haha, T ^ T = F, so that isn't quite a syllogism you have there.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by pdonis on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @01:26PM (#21326289)
Ah, yes, you're right.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by falcor84 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:20AM (#21324627)
Obviously you're probably right, but I'll just try to troll this a bit. According to the principle of charity (or steelmanning), you should interpret an argument in the strongest possible way, and thus you should in this case interpret the statement with an inclusive or, which is more likely to be true.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by hermitdev on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:11AM (#21323761)
It's quite possible that these were scheduled trades that were arranged far in advance before either executive was aware of the breach. So, no, not necessarily insider trading. The optics sure look bad, but it could just be shitty timing.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by steveklabnik on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:14AM (#21323798)
From the parent:

> These sales were not made pursuant to a Rule 10b5–1 trading plan.

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by jagged-chisel on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:19AM (#21323846)
"pre-arranged" != "Rue 10b5-1 trading plan"

I'm not an expert in stock trading, but this logic seems very plausible. A Plan does not preclude other arrangements to sell shares

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by steveklabnik on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:24AM (#21323895)
I am admittedly not the most educated person in this area (I wasn't 100% sure that "rule 10b5-1" was the rule that applied here), so I'd like to learn more. Can you give me an example of a reason you'd pre-arrange the sale of stock but not do it in accordance with Rule 10b5-1?
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by jagged-chisel on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:38AM (#21324886)
Arranging some other transaction (e.g. buying a yacht) in advance that would require cash, so the executive plans in advance a single sale to execute just ahead of the need for cash. If we go with the yacht purchase, perhaps in six months the builder needs final payment, so Mr. Executive arranges for a single sale of company stock a couple weeks before that date.

Maybe such a thing does indeed require amending The Plan, but I haven't seen anyone with expertise chime in. I'm just saying that logically, "pre-arranged" does not necessitate "working within Rule 10b5-1"

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by semi-extrinsic on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:08PM (#21325309)
Not an expert either, but if such a thing was allowed, you could arrange to buy expensive stuff you want to have on a regular basis (I would assume this is not uncommon for CEOs) and then just agree orally with the seller to cancel the transactions when the stock is down, go through with it when the stock is up.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by jagged-chisel on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:03PM (#21326784)
I think cancelling at opportune moments would fall afoul of 'pre-arrangment' whether using a plan or not.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by steveklabnik on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:43AM (#21324960)
Yeah, I would assume that something like that would also be done within Rule 10b5-1, but that has hidden assumptions that I know nothing about, like that it's not just "the plan" but multiple plans, etc. Anyway, thanks.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by nolok on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:16AM (#21324584)
Maybe, but "pre-arranged legally" == "Rue 10b5-1 trading plan".

So if it was pre-arranged but was not following the rules, it doesn't matter that it was pre-arranged, it's still counts as illegal insider trading as-if not pre-arranged.

Reasons being super obvious, since it would be easy to do insider trading in a stealthy way otherwise.

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by scarejunba on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @01:24PM (#21326266)
The purpose of that trading plan is precisely to allow you to have arrangements to sell shares as an insider. So if he was pre-arranging legally, this is how he'd do it.

You don't have to be an expert. Practically everyone who isn't rank-and-file gets the dossiers on this nonsense in a public company.

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by AiApotheosis on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:16AM (#21323822)
Is there another way they could have executed trades legally, without following rule 10b5-1?

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rule-10b5-1.asp

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by hermitdev on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @09:48PM (#21330315)
I think so, they still have to be publicly disclosed with an appropriate notice. I don't know the exact rules, but I think it typically has to be announced something like 30 days prior. May also involve restrictions around significant events such as earnings calls, quarterly events or shareholder meetings.

I'm not aware of the details, as I'm just a peon in Back Office, but I do know traders pay attention to not-insider "insider" trading announcements from the SEC (yes, this pretrade information is publicly available from the SEC). I have no idea about non-US rules.

Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by ojbyrne on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:15AM (#21323810)
Given the above quote referencing https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rule-10b5-1.asp that seems unlikely.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by peteradio on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @10:13AM (#21323790)
Doesn't it say in the quote that these were not scheduled? !
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by gok on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:08AM (#21324458)
It's possible they were already planning to make those sales. Executives who can potentially have inside information often need to tell the SEC far ahead of time about sales they intend to make.
Re:Equifax securities fraud class action [pdf] by lurker458 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:23AM (#21324668)
"These sales were not made pursuant to a Rule 10b5–1 trading plan" They didn't report in advance.