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Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by throwaway4589 on Thursday October 03, 2019 @01:31AM (#21144017)
Isn't that how Samsung grew during the 90s?

Japanese companies outsourced to them, and basically trained their competitors.

Manufacturing in Korea during the 90s just accelerated the rate of IP theft.

It was like that in Japan during the 80s too.

I wonder which country will be after China.

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by tooltalk on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:31AM (#21144308)
No. Samsung grew during Japan's trade row with the US in the 80's. The trade hostility between the two nations gave opportunity for Samsung to jump in the DRAM business, just in time for their 64K and 256K breakthroughs ahead of competition in 1984. By 90's, Samsung was already ahead of most Japanese competitors.

Now, stop making stuff up to rationalize China's IP theft.

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by rjzzleep on Thursday October 03, 2019 @09:44AM (#21146839)
There's obviously a bit more to the story. Japan used Koreans as labor force in the occupied territories. For that to have been possible they must have built factories there.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-japan-laborers...

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by tooltalk on Thursday October 03, 2019 @01:01PM (#21149157)
Whatever Imperial Japan built in Korea, they weren't certainly smartphone factories. The Imperial Japan didn't really build a lot of industrial base in Korea and what little they built were in the North and destroyed during the Korean civil war.

Also remember that most Korean forced laborers were forced to work in mines and factories on the ground level, not weren't brought in to develop their products or run their businesses.

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by Synaesthesia on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:14AM (#21144217)
It's also how the US grew in the 18th century, by stealing IP from the global technological leader, Britain (who stole a great deal from India).
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by beerandt on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:25AM (#21144277)
I know Britain exploited the hell out of India as a colony, but what IP did they steal?

Or did you just mean stolen resources?

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by stevula on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:53AM (#21144403)
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by beerandt on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:15AM (#21144502)
Huh.

It's the source of the rockets red glare.

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by puranjay on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:22AM (#21144534)
Huh. So this is why Indian civilization gets a gunpowder boost in Age of Empires 2
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by shardinator on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:43AM (#21144360)
I don’t have a reference, but high quality steel making would be one.
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by onecool on Thursday October 03, 2019 @01:46PM (#21149730)
You don't have a reference, because high quality steel was invented in the U.S.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a...

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by shardinator on Saturday October 05, 2019 @02:45AM (#21164158)
I'm talking about an earlier time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz_steel
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by gandutraveler on Friday October 04, 2019 @05:07AM (#21155998)
India had 25% of world's before Britishers arrived and sucked all the wealth to bring it down to 4% when they left. That's some serious exploitation.
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by beilabs on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:37AM (#21144337)
Stolen resources.
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by Synaesthesia on Thursday October 03, 2019 @06:31AM (#21145442)
India had advanced steel making, ship making and textile technologies which were taken by the British.
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by lappet on Thursday October 03, 2019 @10:54AM (#21147714)
Huh, I am Indian and have never heard it said like this. Do you have any sources to back this up, apart from the rockets and textile industries?
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by oblio on Thursday October 03, 2019 @11:08AM (#21147899)
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by lappet on Thursday October 03, 2019 @01:42PM (#21149688)
I think I stumbled upon that a while back. Thank you!
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by SmellyGeekBoy on Thursday October 03, 2019 @06:17AM (#21145371)
Considering we're all just going to end up "stealing" each others' technology in the end anyway, it strikes me that it might be much easier if we all just collaborated in the first place.
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by emptysands on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:02AM (#21144440)
Europe was after China last time. For example, Marco Polo. Opium War was pretty much China to Europe as well. Brits stole tea and gave it to the Indians as a cash crop.
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by ImNoSuperman on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:26AM (#21144548)
There was an effort to help Japan develop during these years in order to ensure they were a stable democracy in the east during the red scare. Yes there was a lot of IP theft but a lot of their growth came from many different political aids and economic perks we gave to them. So we cant come down on Japan too hard.
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by tracker1 on Thursday October 03, 2019 @04:19PM (#21151675)
Just guessing that after China will be portions of Africa in terms of economic growth for cheap labor production. However, I'm not sure that cartel warlords (also an issue elsewhere) will be worse or better than the PRC govt.
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by instagraham on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:09AM (#21144197)
This is an essential force for transfer of tech. Ideally, it should be India given that many MNCs from chip fabrication to military hardware have set up shop and base here.

However, India doesn't seem to have learned to use this model, as is evident from decades of buying foreign weapons without learning to make them ourselves.

China built its military industrial complex by copying Russia. The only thing India has copied so far is an anti-materiel rifle.

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by rasz on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:11AM (#21144208)
Who exactly outsourced to Japan?
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by solotronics on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:16AM (#21144222)
The US.
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by rasz on Thursday October 03, 2019 @07:15AM (#21145694)
I think you will find it went the other way around. Japan even had foreign currency quota and ownership limits just like China does today.

Frontline: Coming From Japan [The Fall Of The US Television Industry] (1992) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aesJTsZqm6c and sadly now paywalled article https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1990/09/30/j...

"September 30, 1990. HOW DID Japan destroy the American television industry? The secret history of that strategy reveals how Japanese manufacturers and the Japanese government first created an anti-competitive cartel ..."

also https://www.jstor.org/stable/43294946

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by anonygler on Thursday October 03, 2019 @01:36AM (#21144041)
This reeks of whataboutism. IP theft is problematic and nobody has ever engaged in it to the extent that China has. The Chinese intelligence apparatus is actively engaged in IP theft as well.
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by tedivm on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:01AM (#21144158)
The entire US Industrial Revolution was kicked off by Francis Cabot Lowell stealing the designs of British power looms. Alexander Hamilton, as treasury secretary, adopted an actual policy of stealing technology and sent spies to Britain as well.

This is how it works. Countries without technology steal it from those that do. It's basically a market force- if you don't make it available at something approaching a reasonable cost then it will be duplicated through research or just directly stolen.

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by beerandt on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:00AM (#21144425)
Context:

The two countries were still enemies at the time and on the verge of war. If I recall my history correctly, the trade routes collapsed when Britain stopped selling America textiles, stopped buying American cotton and then tried to blockade the entire country.

Yes stealing the loom filled a void in the American market, but in this case Britain isn't exactly blameless.

It wasn't really the same market forces that we see today, unless I'm missing something. China's not stealing IP to fill any market void.

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by sharpneli on Thursday October 03, 2019 @08:41AM (#21146270)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enercon

See Patent Dispute.

I’m not saying US does this as much as China. It would be hard as US is the tech leader in many fields.

But whenever US is not a tech leader they happily engage in government sanctioned industrial espionage (Not Officially Officially sanctioned but wink and nod whoopsie kind of). Thus the complaints about what China is doing ring hollow.

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by rjzzleep on Thursday October 03, 2019 @01:47AM (#21144100)
It's how innovation happened throughout human history. The entire oh so celebrated age of enlightenment happened this way.

Nobody would come to the conclusion to call that IP theft though.

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by jdnenej on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:42AM (#21144626)
IP theft does not exist. IP is an invalid concept and can not exist in a free society.
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by oska on Thursday October 03, 2019 @06:16AM (#21145366)
Agreed. The whole 'IP theft' story is bullshit and founded on an intellectual fiction (that ideas can be property).
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by ARandomerDude on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:04AM (#21144171)
> nobody has ever engaged in it to the extent that China has

Translation: what about all the countries that aren't as bad as China?

A certain amount of "whataboutism" is unavoidable if you attempt to make any comparative statments, or believe inductive reasoning is possible.

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by rjf72 on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:53AM (#21144401)
I also think 'whataboutism' is critical to maintain logic consistency and try to avoid bias. For instance imagine I dislike group X, and and I use a condemnation of action A (which they engage in) as part of the justification for that dislike. If my condemnation of A is valid and genuine supportive evidence of my rationale for disliking X then A should be bad in contexts other than when X is engaging in it.

And so comparing A when done by actors other than X is absolutely critical in determining whether it's actually indeed a bad action, or whether I'm simply clouded by bias and calling it bad because of my dislike of X.

In searching Google Trends it's somewhat unsurprising to find that 'whataboutism' as a term didn't even really exist until around 2017 [1] when partisan driven bias and antagonism started to exponentially skyrocket. It's quite an insidious term since it helps deflect potentially logical critique of irrational views, but has a paradoxical connotation of legitimacy and intellectual authenticity.

[1] - https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=w...

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by coldtea on Thursday October 03, 2019 @08:48AM (#21146339)
>This reeks of whataboutism

Yes, aka "putting things in perspective" and "not doing one-sided criticism"...

Why don't all these whatabouters don't just let us blame whoever we want, and keep mum for shit ourselves or our friends did/do?

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by SmellyGeekBoy on Thursday October 03, 2019 @06:19AM (#21145383)
> This reeks of whataboutism ... nobody has ever engaged in it to the extent that China has.

I hope you see the irony (hypocrisy?) in this statement.

[dead]
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by linuxdude314 on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:48AM (#21144374)
Notice how your other posts have already been deleted?

How do you define a better human being? Let me guess, you fit in that group!

[dead]
Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by dang on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:25AM (#21144546)
We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Samsung ends mobile phone production in China by mda on Thursday October 03, 2019 @02:23AM (#21144268)
It is whataboutism I agree, whenever something about China comes up the very first comment is usually a "what about... "