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Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by StavrosK on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:03AM (#21100329)
Why is that? I've long been against Apple's stance of not allowing me access to the hardware I own, and this exploit seems the best of both worlds: If you want to make sure you're secure, just reboot the phone.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by mentat on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:14AM (#21100382)
If you can access using this so can others when you cross borders, are stopped by police, have spying spouse, etc. Those are real and sometimes fatal threat models.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by fullonrager on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:25AM (#21100442)
If law enforcement did take your device, it would be useless if you have a passcode. Your data will still be encrypted.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by gruez on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:41AM (#21100520)
depends on whether exploiting the bootrom allows you bypass the anti-hammering mechanism, or the "wipe data after 10 failed attempts" mechanism. A 6 digit passcode by itself is very easy to crack.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by morpheuskafka on Saturday September 28, 2019 @11:03AM (#21100660)
IIRC from the San Bernardino case, that was the case on the shooter's phone (a 5S I think), but since then it has been built in to the "Secure Enclave" chip which is not affected by the vulnerability. But you could flash a fake iOS that logged the user's code and/or directly exfiltrated the data--the user would have no idea that it was not the stock iOS they were giving their code to. It would leave them which a bricked device the next time they rebooted, which could raise suspicions.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by earenndil on Saturday September 28, 2019 @06:48PM (#21103530)
It was a 5c; 5s and later had the SEP.

You don't 'flash' a fake ios; you can use the bootrom exploit to put your modified version of ios into memory, and once you reboot you would get back straight stock ios. They could even make it reboot as soon as the password was harvested, leaving behind no trace. This is scary stuff. You can keep yourself safe by rebooting as soon as you get your phone back from border patrol, but many people would not know to do that.

Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by StavrosK on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:47AM (#21100550)
It doesn't. Just reboot the phone and it's secure.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by gruez on Saturday September 28, 2019 @12:57PM (#21101427)
I think you misunderstood the threat model. The concern is that they seized your phone, used the exploit to bypass the "normal" passcode protections, allowing them to bruteforce your 6 digit passcode in hours/days rather than years/decades/never (if you had the wipe after 10 failed attempts enabled).
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by StavrosK on Saturday September 28, 2019 @01:07PM (#21101482)
That is not possible, the key is inside a hardware chip which enforces the number of tries for the PIN.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by fragmede on Saturday September 28, 2019 @07:39PM (#21103846)
Now they do. That wasn't always the case though, for those on older devices (Anything older than the 5s, I believe), or older iOS versions.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by ibigb on Saturday September 28, 2019 @04:47PM (#21102758)
You can use a numeric sequence passphrase as your passcode; there is no 6 digit limitation; I have a > 6 numeric passcode/passphrase.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by glhaynes on Saturday September 28, 2019 @04:58PM (#21102822)
You can also use an alphanumeric sequence.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by tptacek on Saturday September 28, 2019 @04:59PM (#21102826)
Don't use a 6-digit passcode.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by ralfd on Saturday September 28, 2019 @12:24PM (#21101238)
If you lost your iPhone or it was stolen it was just a worthless brick for the finder/thief. Think about what a big peace of mind that is! This changed now for older hardware.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by blattimwind on Saturday September 28, 2019 @12:57PM (#21101426)
It didn't, because the encryption keys are in the secure coprocessor.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by oarsinsync on Saturday September 28, 2019 @04:11PM (#21102579)
Your data is protected, but the iCloud activation lock can be bypassed. Hence it no longer being a brick.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by tptacek on Saturday September 28, 2019 @05:00PM (#21102835)
What's the market value of a phone that has to be put into firmware upgrade mode every time it restarts?
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by oarsinsync on Sunday September 29, 2019 @01:43AM (#21105330)
TBD. Check out eBay in the coming months, I’m sure a value will be determined soon. It’s definitely higher than what it is now (sold as scrap for parts)
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by paulcole on Saturday September 28, 2019 @12:10PM (#21101142)
My take is that you’re misinterpreting what you (theoretically) have purchased. You bought an iPhone, not a pile of hardware. Nowhere in the transaction did Apple misrepresent what they offered. Your wish for iPhone shaped hardware that is yours to do whatever you want with doesn’t change the fact that this isn’t what’s for sale.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by StavrosK on Saturday September 28, 2019 @12:24PM (#21101229)
How do you reconcile the fact that I've bought it with the fact that it's not "mine to do whatever I want with"?

Ownership is the state of exclusive rights and control over property, which I don't have when I buy an Apple device. Either they shouldn't say they're selling it (they can say they're leasing it to me) or they should give me all rights.

Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by lotsofpulp on Saturday September 28, 2019 @01:17PM (#21101556)
World isn’t so black and white. There are restrictions on many things you “own”. Land, certain chemicals, technologies, etc.

I like to think of “owning” in the developed world simply as a right to collect rent from someone else.

Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by StavrosK on Saturday September 28, 2019 @01:37PM (#21101681)
> There are restrictions on many things you “own”.

Are any of these restrictions there so a private third party can decide what you do with your property?

Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by tedunangst on Saturday September 28, 2019 @02:58PM (#21102182)
Another example is the Visual Artists Rights Act. You may own the painting, sculpture, etc., but you are not allowed to modify or destroy it.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by edoceo on Saturday September 28, 2019 @02:12PM (#21101903)
Yes, land rights for example. Someone else decides what you're allowed to build and/or dig.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by StavrosK on Saturday September 28, 2019 @02:15PM (#21101924)
Which private party decides that?
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by oarsinsync on Saturday September 28, 2019 @04:13PM (#21102588)
The municipal council approves all building plans. Just because you own the land doesn’t mean you have the right to build whatever you want on it without approval.

At least, that’s true in at least one state in the USA.

Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by ckcheng on Saturday September 28, 2019 @05:03PM (#21102848)
The neighbor or utility providers have a say if there's an easement, e.g. you can't build as to block their right-of-way access for maintenance purposes, despite your ownership over the land.

Also the developers and architectural controls can make decisions affecting what you build (down to the color you paint outside), before they turn things over to the city.

All subject to local laws of course, so may vary city to city.

Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by edoceo on Saturday September 28, 2019 @02:33PM (#21102049)
Home Owners Association, Neighborhood Association, Historical Society, etc
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by paulcole on Saturday September 28, 2019 @05:45PM (#21103076)
When you buy a car, you don’t get an airplane. Maybe you can figure out how to make it one but don’t cry when you can’t.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by StavrosK on Saturday September 28, 2019 @05:56PM (#21103148)
This analogy is apt, because I was clearly complaining that my phone wasn't a spaceship.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by paulcole on Saturday September 28, 2019 @08:18PM (#21104042)
You knowingly bought one thing while wishing it was something else. Blame the company for that if you want but they didn’t have a gun to your head.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by StavrosK on Saturday September 28, 2019 @08:22PM (#21104060)
I'm not saying they misrepresented the transaction that occurred. I'm saying I don't own the phone I bought, Apple does. I'm just leasing it from them.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by paulcole on Saturday September 28, 2019 @09:17PM (#21104329)
I guess I just don’t understand your definition of ownership or leasing. This just sounds to me like you’re complaining that you’re only leasing your fork because you bought a spoon.
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by StavrosK on Saturday September 28, 2019 @10:13PM (#21104564)
I bought a computer that can't run whatever code I want. That's not ownership. That's buying a fork that hangs on a chain in the manufacturer's house. Yes, I "own" it, yes it's better than no fork, but if I can't eat whatever I want with it, it's not really mine.

I don't know what people aren't getting about this. You bought a computer that can only run code that Apple has explicitly approved. How is this ownership?

Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by Rylinks on Saturday September 28, 2019 @06:57PM (#21103589)
this is like saying you don't own a lock because it won't open if you've lost the key
Re:Developer of Checkm8 explains why iDevice jailbreak explo... by StavrosK on Saturday September 28, 2019 @07:05PM (#21103636)
No, it's like saying I don't own a lock because Apple keeps the key and I have to call them and ask them to unlock it for me every time.