Tap water in the developed world is really really good. You can measure a country by the ability of that nation to provide clean water to people. Municipal water supplies in cities like Atlanta and Cincinnati are often tested 200~300 times per month at several pumping and maintenance locations. Bottled water is a scam, and it also is a resources that's often extracted from poor countries and communities.

The documentary Tapped and Blue Gold both go into all the screwed up thing the bottle water industry does. For countries without clean water, bottled water is not the solution. Better municipal water, more wells and cheaper, low energy water purification around those wells is a much more sustainable solution.

>Bottled water is a scam, and it also is a resources that's often extracted from poor countries and communities

Are you sure about this? My impression is that the price/weight ratio of bottled water is way to low to make any sense to not bottle them in close proximity, so "extracted from poor countries" doesn't sound plausible.

The bottled water is produced close to where it's sold. The issue is in countries where the water bottling plant takes up lots of the available local water so the poorer citizens can't access it, and they can't afford the bottled water either. This means they don't have access to any clean water.

One of Nestle's recent CEOs actually went on record to say say he didn't believe access to clean water should be a human right.

> "The bottled water is produced close to where it's sold."

Well, not always. Premium brands are often shipped long distances. Evian, Fiji water, etc...

Voss made a fortune selling Norwegian tap water around the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voss_(water)

I used to like their glass bottles, recently I bought again and found they have switched to plastic (at least in some markets) that looks the same and even feels the same until you open it. Fooled me once, shame on them; will never buy again.

If you look carefully at the base of the bottle, the glass version has molding marks (raised dots and ridges) that aren't present the plastic version.

I've seen New York City municipal water sold in supermarkets on the west coast. The brand was something clever like NYC2O.

I wonder if anyone's tried making bagels with it yet.

There was a place in Las Vegas called Glaziers that had New York City water trucked in to make its bagels. They were very good, but very expensive.

It's out of business now.

Can't access what, tap water?

That sounds more like a problem of the local government than factories of bottled water.

>he didn't believe access to clean water should be a human right

Depends on the definition of "human right". You still pay for even the tap water in your home after all.

One might argue that being allowed to dig a well on your land for drinking water is a human right. Clean water was once the natural order of things.

But if the neighbour is called Nestlé and has a deeper well, your well will go dry.

This model shows the problem nicely:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF4iCgxsZX4

Basically in countries where water supplies are limited Nestle come in and buy the water, meaning wells go dry but Nestle still have enough to sell. Those in water poverty can't outbid Nestle, nor pay the right people bungs.

Snopes does cover the situation quite well (see link upthread).

This sort of thing: https://www.nationofchange.org/2019/08/30/nestle-waters-prop....

He didnt say that. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nestle-ceo-water-not-human...

He did say that he thinks the idea that bottled water is a human right is “extreme”, and that he doesn’t believe it should be.

Full quote:

> “Water is, of course, the most important raw material we have today in the world. It’s a question of whether we should privatize the normal water supply for the population. And there are two different opinions on the matter. The one opinion, which I think is extreme, is represented by the NGOs, who bang on about declaring water a public right. That means that as a human being you should have a right to water. That’s an extreme solution. The other view says that water is a foodstuff like any other, and like any other foodstuff it should have a market value. Personally, I believe it’s better to give a foodstuff a value so that we’re all aware it has its price, and then that one should take specific measures for the part of the population that has no access to this water, and there are many different possibilities there.”

The Snopes article only disputes that he didn’t specifically say the words “Water is NOT a human right”, but backs up what the GP said (that he doesn’t believe it should be a human right).

>He did say that he thinks the idea that bottled water is a human right is “extreme”, and that he doesn’t believe it should be.

No, he is not saying bottled water. He is saying water plain and simple. Any water.

"That means that as a human being you should have a right to water. That’s an extreme solution."

So, for him, having access to water (any water) is not a human right. If some people can not afford to pay for it, that's their problem, or the government's to find an alternative ("and then that one should take specific measures for the part of the population that has no access to this water").

And to respond to him: Yes, Human Right to water is a thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_right_to_water_and_sanit...

Whoops - yeah sorry, the "bottled" in that sentence is a mistake. It was late :)

Fully agree with your comment!

He doesn’t think water should be a human right, he didn’t make a direct quote and the parent didn’t put anything in quotes so I don’t think there’s a problem here. A snopes “mixture” score isn’t something I’d bandy about like it’s an argument killer for sure, lol.

That seems like a distinction without a difference. He basically called people who think water is a human right extremist (from your link).

It shouldn't be a human right. It doesn't make sense. TO say it is a human right would mean if somebody would build a hut in the desert, the world would have to build a water pipeline for them. That would be very ineffective.

I only know about Nestle, there often is the story about them supposedly depleting water in dry regions (I think Afghanistan or Pakistan). But if you look it up, they take the water from a very water rich region in that country.

Next time you read that Nestle story, look it up. I don't have time to Google right now.

> TO say it is a human right would mean if somebody would build a hut in the desert,

You use the most idiotic interpretation you can imagine and then stating it as a fact. I'm sure that you are not doing this in bad faith, but your thinking is missing basic common sense that cripples you ability to understand society. Human right to water and sanitation (HRWS) is very reasonable right. It means that HRWS rules over other concerns in legal disputes and affects policy priorities.

This paper has real world legal cases and interpretations: https://www.un.org/waterforlifedecade/pdf/human_right_to_wat...

The quotation is from a movie that literally shows people living in a desert like environment, implying they should be given water. It's not my idiotic interpretation, it is what the quotation refers to.

They should move somewhere where they can get water. UN may pay for it or whatever. But to show people in some rotten place and complain that they don't get their human right to water makes no sense.

Also, the point of finding "most idiotic interpretations" is to make it obvious if something makes no sense. You are just not used to logical thinking (here, finding trivial counter examples).

Well... it's good in many ways, but on the other hand my local water supply still has Cr(VI)

> that's often extracted from poor countries and communities.

Most bottled water came out of a local tap.

Yep, that's true too. Most bottled water is just municipal tap water.

Unless you are in Flint...

Well, for microplastics.

If you live e.g. in the Bay Area, your tap water instead has a good chance of having a good helping of hexavalent chromium[1], which... not too healthy. (Neither are arsenic, bromium, etc.)

Pick your poison. Literally.

[1] https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Tap-water-Bay-Area-datab...

Is that what’s responsible for it smelling like swamp water? I always heard that somehow “algae bloom” was to blame, but there were certain days the San Jose tap water would be pungent.

Is this something that would be removed with common cheap consumer filters? (such as Britta)

I drink a lot of tap water, but always put it through a filter of some sort.

If you don't mind a bit of work (weekly rinsing) and discarding part of the water, I'd recommend a reverse osmosis filter. They're reasonably cheap and beat the crap out of all the alternatives for non-professional users. You'll essentially have to add back some salts after the filtration process to turn it into something that won't demineralise you.

Took some poking around to piece together a real answer, but the ion exchange component in a standard Brita filter (or similar pour-through) isn't the right kind to trap chromium (mostly just zinc, copper, and cadmium). You either need a higher-grade ion exchange filter (you can search for "Chromium 6 Water Filter" on Amazon) or a reverse osmosis system.

Thanks. Reverse osmosis removes minerals, which isn't something I want. Personally (this is just my perspective) I operate under the theory we don't fully understand the human body, so don't mess with things too much, removing minerals and then selectively adding some back in is not something I think we are well informed enough to do without possible negative consequences.

I looked for Chromium 6 Water Filter and found plenty of good options. Truly thank you for the recommendation.

I honestly don't know. IIRC, you need an ion exchange filter (but they're bad for other reasons) or a reverse osmosis one certified for Cr(VI).

https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/ has a pretty decent guide.

I think that is overly alarmist. These guys: https://torrentlab.com/drinking-and-storm-water-quality-test... make it easy to get a water test done.

If you're worried about chromium 6 (hexavalent chromium) install a reverse osmosis filter.

> If you live e.g. in the Bay Area, your tap water instead has a good chance of having a good helping of hexavalent chromium

And tastes like crap across the bay. I don't care, but my wife is pretty picky about it. I've tried multiple filters, to no avail.

San Francisco water mostly comes from the Tuolumne River (Hetch Hetchy reservoir).

I don’t think SJC gets if from Hetchhechy nor east bay mud, but I may be misinformed.

Upon searching looks like SJC gets if from aquifers, recharge areas and also a bit from sfpuc (hetchhechy). EB MUD gets it from the Sierra snowmelt.

If you want to actually look up your local results from the source of that article,

https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/

And what exactly can one do if the results are terrible?

Depending on specific circumstance: buy filters, find alternate sources, move.

> find alternate sources

To the water coming out of your tap?

Sure. Bottled water for example. ;-)

In at least a couple of European countries it is well known that unless your city has specific problems tap water is better than bottled water.

The reason being that (except some cases of corruption...) legal limit are much stricter for tap water.

Better in impurities at the very least, the taste is usually quite worse.

Living in Germany/Berlin and can confirm. Our tap water is excellent and is way cleaner than all bottled water you can buy. Keep in mind, bottled water is also kept around way longer and has the time to „breed“. In tests, the tap water is consistently less contaminated. I recommend everyone to just stick to it.

As an anecdote: you can let your tap water be tested for free if you have a newborn to ensure and confirm that you can use it for baby food without doubt.

Having spent 5 months in Germany recently I can say without a doubt the entire food chain in that nation is something I miss. Tap water tasted great and the food was super high quality.

tasted gross in Berlin this summer, spent 2 months there.

There are still flats with lead pipes in Germany.

Berlin, of course, has a website in English language with all the information regarding tap water:

https://www.bwb.de/en/index.php

UK as well has generally excellent tap water and everywhere I’ve lived it had never tasted any different to bottled water.

That said I’ve never been a fan of bottle water anyway, I’ve always preferred what my Nan used to call ‘council pop’ (tap water).

Is Berlin (as opposed to other areas of Germany) culturally ok with drinking tap water?

I'd say all of Germany is culturally very much ok with drinking tap water, Berlin not much more or less than other regions. People who drink bottled water here don't usually do it because they think it's "better" than tap water, it's either because of convenience when you're not home or because they like carbonated water (which is very popular in Germany).

Or because the tap water just doesn't really taste that good. The one coming out of my line just tastes too "metalic", I often tried getting over it but I just can't.

Have you tried a water filter?

A lot of the buildings in Berlin have very old pipes and while the water to the building is alright, we (in Berlin) have to rely mainly on glass bottles of water (bismark) as if you don’t run the taps enough there’s a nice colour that comes out...

I've lived in a few places in Berlin over the years, I've never seen anything but nice clear water come out of the tap (whether at my place or friend's flats). Granted, it's hard water (lots of calcium) but other than that it's perfectly fine. Pipes as bad as you're describing definitely exist but I'd say they're the exception, not the rule.

If there's a lot of calcium old pipes will have nice protection layer, no?

Exactly, and the older the pipe, the thicker the layer.

I was in Berlin this summer for 2 months (Neukolln), in 3 different airbnbs and the water was not tasty, and was quite bitter. Very different compared to Swedish or Austrian or even Italian (florence) water.

I’m no expert in Germany but found it very difficult to get tap water at any restaurants there.

> you can let your tap water be tested for free if you have a newborn to ensure and confirm that you can use it for baby food without doubt.

Without doubt? We just found out that they are microplastics in bottled water, how can you be sure there aren't things in tap water that we haven't discovered yet?

There is microshrimp in NYC water. We love it.

Living in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, I can confirm that our water is extremely clean and good to drink. Additionally our city was rated one of the best tasting tap waters for all of Ontario, cities literally compete for quality water. Contrast that to Flint michigan across the river from me.

Dude not a fair comparison, here in Canada there's probably the best tap water in the world ;)

Unless you live up North or on a reservation...

Iceland was the best i've ever had

Best tasting or least tasting? (Since water is tasteless...)

You should try tasting distilled water and see for yourself if water is tasteless :). The tastelessness makes it pretty hard to drink.

Pure water is tasteless - the one we drink has a bunch of stuff.

> Since water is tasteless...

I think for some people this might seem to be true. That said, for folks who are able to taste such things, clean water from different sources definitely can have tastes that differ based on the minerality of the water.

I used to think this was BS, but I changed my mind after doing a deep dive into wine, in which flavors like minerality of the soil, local flowers, and the like are definitely represented in finer wines.

For an over-the-top water example, check out this video:

https://youtu.be/rg3Mr6e1KMo

In Germany, every supermarket has dozens of different bottled water brands. The vast majority are not fancy and are on the lower end regarding price. You can taste your way through the different mineralisations, from kind of dry tasting over sweet to salty. It's not a surprise the guy introducing Americans to the varieties of water tastes in your link is German.

And not to forget a number of bottled waters are simply tap water. One of the earliest I remember was taking Northern UK tap water, in a region that doesn't flouridate, letting it sit in tanks long enough to dechlorinate, then bottling it. Too long ago to remember the brand.

Dasani and Aquafina are both from the tap. Probably lots of others, but we never buy bottled water of any source.

Bottled water is also usually just tap water .. at a 1000% markup. You're paying for tap water plus some plastic.

While that is the common story, I am not entirely convinced. It is presumably true that there are more controls for tap water. But those controls still only test a limited number of substances.

One story that goes around a lot is for example the claim that tap water contains a lot of hormones from all the contraceptive pills women take and then flush out of their body into the water system. That seems to not be controlled for. Not sure how serious the issue really is.

More controls also doesn't change the quality of water. It only detects bad water of some variants. If you had an excellent "mineral water" and an OK tap water, more controls wouldn't make the tap water any better.

Not saying you shouldn't drink the tap water. I drink it most of the time.

If that's the case, the same would be true for most bottled water. The majority of mainstream brands are made from water from the same distribution system, just filtered some more and with added minerals.

Is there a list? I know that in the US all tap water is (or should be) safe to drink. But anytime I travel, even to developed countries, I only use bottled water since I consider the water to be suspect unless I know differently.

US tap water is far from safe to drink. Ask Flint, Michigan. (Incredible levels of lead in the water).

Pittsburgh (in 2017) didn't even have enough people to run the necessary water audits.

Milwaukee's city health commissioner resigned in 2018 because they didn't warn about unsafe lead levels in the water.

In 2018, around half of the samples from Newark's water system showed lead levels above the EPA's threshold.

Large parts of Texas' water contain elevated amounts of radium[1]. Brady, TX, has water that's green, brown, orange[2] - it changes - and has 9 times the EPA limit of radium

California has a statewide sanitation problem.[3]

And that's just a starter set.

[1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/drinking-water-radium-contamina... [2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/08/14/63-million-am... [3] https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/water-and-drought/art...

I guess it's just the places in the US I've lived in that have safe tap water.

Yes, just the vast majority of the US (geographically and population wise) has incredibly good tap water, with a long tail of famously bad exceptions to the rule.

63 million people is a really, really long tail.

How does this compare to the EU? It's one thing for tap water to not be perfect, it's quite another for it to be as bad as Flint, MI. What's the true distribution here?

Making people unreasonably afraid of tap water just seems irresponsible.

Making people affraid of tap water is the business model of bottled water. US tap water is well known to be bad compared to the rest of the developed world (thanks to marketing).

Where did you get 63 million?

The third link from GP has a headline which reads “360,000 Californians have unsafe drinking water. Are you one of them?”

That’s approximately 1% of CA’s population. That’s not even a long tail.

The second link.

> As many as 63 million people — nearly a fifth of the United States — from rural central California to the boroughs of New York City, were exposed to potentially unsafe water more than once during the past decade, according to a News21 investigation of 680,000 water quality and monitoring violations from the Environmental Protection Agency.

So I believe what’s happening here is that they took the total population coverage of any water district that ever had at least two reports of a water quality or monitoring violation in the last decade.

I think ”potentially” is the key word here which makes this claim particularly washy. Are they looking at violations which actually resulted in measurably unsafe water, which were likely to cause or result in unsafe water, or merely violations which could possibly resulted in unsafe water, or perhaps monitoring lapses which would have failed to detect potentially unsafe water, but without any evidence that water was actually ever unsafe?

It’s a newsroom investigative report, not a scientific study. Take this with a huge grain of salt.

Geographically the vast majority of the US doesn't have tap water.

There are several lists online, but essentially tap water is safe (preferable, even) across the whole of Europe and Scandinavia.

> "Worse... it's worse than tap water."

Considering the bottles are made of plastic, it would be surprising if they contained less plastic particles than tap water.

What would be interesting is if glass bottled water contained a similar number of plastic particles, because that would suggest a different source of contamination.

One of the theories is that putting the caps and other mechanic actions cause friction and create the particles.

Many water pipes in houses are plastic. Would be interesting to see studies on tap water.

No, bottled is ro filtered and should be clean of particles over .001 mm.

Yes, and then it gets put in a plastic bottle.

Not all bottled waters are RO filtered, either. Many are sourced from natural springs and retain various minerals.

Do in-line water filters you get at home centers filter those sized particles out, or are they too small?