News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by forinti on Saturday August 10, 2019 @08:52PM (#20665511)
This is a process Brazilians know well.

Chocolate bars used to have 200g. Some now have less than 100g. Toilet paper rolls used to have 50m; most now have 30m and some have only 10m.

This sort of thing started happening in the 1980s, because the government had frozen prices (that always works well). It became such a problem that now the law says that the packaging must clearly point out if the quantity inside has changed.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by dane-pgp on Saturday August 10, 2019 @09:26PM (#20665629)
I'd also like to see a law passed that requires each product to mention on its packaging if its ingredients (even just their relative proportions) have changed. This would apply to things like foods/drinks and also cleaning products.

Of course companies would protest, claiming that their recipes are trade secrets, but we already require that products list their ingredients, and we protect trademarks for products, which seems unreasonable if companies can alter the contents of what is being protected, without telling customers.

To be clear, though, I'm not actually advocating that the labels report precise amounts of each ingredient, but they should be forced to say something like "40% more salt" or "70% more water", at least next to the ingredients, and "New recipe" on the front (as many products already do).

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by andrewf on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:53PM (#20666133)
Around 15 years ago, the price of cocoa shifted significantly relative to hazelnuts. (I forget which one actually moved in absolute terms)

Cue worse-tasting chocolate bars showing up in the stores, proudly proclaiming on their wrappers: NOW WITH MORE HAZELNUTS.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by GuB-42 on Sunday August 11, 2019 @01:52AM (#20666504)
So you mean listing the change on already mandatory information.

Note that a lot can be told just looking at the label, but few people do it. For example quality meats tend to have more protein, quality diary products tend to to have more fat. High salt and sugar is usually a bad sign.

The order of ingredients is important too: greatest amount first. It means that if the thing they advertise in front of the package is way down the list, that's not good.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by tzs on Sunday August 11, 2019 @01:06PM (#20669115)
A friend of mine found a great example of this. She got a packaged snack item that consisted of some bread sticks and some yellow cheese or cheese-like dip.

The front of the package prominently declared "Made With Real Cheese!".

When she read the ingredients list, not only was cheese way down on the list--it was on the bread ingredients list, not the "cheese" dip ingredients list.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by thaumasiotes on Sunday August 11, 2019 @03:05AM (#20666796)
> It means that if the thing they advertise in front of the package is way down the list, that's not good.

Certain strong flavors, like mint, pepper, and lemon, usually appear pretty low in the ingredients list at the same time they're headlining the label.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by ethbro on Sunday August 11, 2019 @04:13AM (#20667023)
If you have time, perusing ingredient lists for products at the grocery store is fascinating.

I got in the habit trying to avoid palm oil, but there's all kinds of surprises in there.

Not in the "I'm shocked there are chemicals in my food" way. But just in the transparent differences in formulation by weight.

Check out marinades / BBQ sauces and baked beans.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by thaumasiotes on Sunday August 11, 2019 @05:18AM (#20667240)
In the case of the strong flavors I mentioned, I think it's appropriate. They headline the label because that's what the food tastes like. It just doesn't take much peppermint oil to create a really strong flavor.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by jfoster on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:07AM (#20666169)
Relative to when? Is it good for a consumer to even care how a product used to be? Isn't time of purchase the time that truly matters?
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by itnlfal on Sunday August 11, 2019 @05:23AM (#20667252)
Future planning heavily depends on deciphering trends.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by kingludite on Monday August 12, 2019 @03:10AM (#20673154)
I would like to see some qr code pointing at an ever expanding list of data. I imagine a game where every 3 months 1% tax is added that can be waved if some new data set is exposed to the customer.

Its terrible how disconnected we are from the things that sustain us. There are so many companies involved in producing something simple. We can gradually expose the consumers to all these business processes we've accumulated over many thousands of years. I think it could be mind blowing in many ways.

People aslo behave different if someone might be looking. Investors get a tour of the facility and everything seems designed for them rather than for the customer. I've seen places remove chairs and force everyone to stand all day simply because it looked good to investors. Open floor plans anyone? From an investor perspective the less room for livestock the better. Salaries cant possibly be low enough. etc

Have them make [say] a nice video showing the production process. Have some fancy committee sign of on it. Or if the product is to embarrassed to show how it's made have it pay the 1% extra taxes.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by Bombthecat on Sunday August 11, 2019 @04:31AM (#20667078)
So much this! I could swear that cheese in germany adds more and more.. Water or so and taste less and less like cheese..
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by skrebbel on Sunday August 11, 2019 @05:36AM (#20667292)
To be fair, German cheese never tasted much like cheese.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by colechristensen on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:53AM (#20666306)
Products diluted with water are hard to do, but I have no problem with government standardization of, say, the length of toilet paper on a roll. Maybe it doesn't even need to be a law but a tiny tax on nonstandard sizes (0.1%, enough to drive profit-seeking towards standards)
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by cadence- on Sunday August 11, 2019 @01:02AM (#20666336)
The irony is that one of the big reasons Brexit is even happening is because people in U.K. don’t like the fact that EU standardizes everything. They don’t seem to understand that this is being done to protect them from exactly this shrinkflation that is now going to be used by big companies to compensate for the negative results of Brexit.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by petre on Sunday August 11, 2019 @01:20AM (#20666382)
They never signed up for being part of the EU. The UK joined the EC. Maybe they should stay in the EEA and everything would be fine, but even that has too many restrictive rules now that the English are unable to skirt. Like freedom of movement for goods and for people.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by derriz on Sunday August 11, 2019 @04:53AM (#20667159)
This is a Brexit lie based on a superficial change of name - the constitutional basis of the European Union is specified in the 1957 treaty of Rome and the later Maastricht treaty (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Rome). The treaty of Rome explicitly states that the goal is the creation of a single market for goods, labour, services, and capital. This was the foundation of the union that the UK voted to join by plebiscite in the 1970s. The UK - a representative democracy - also ratified the subsequent Maastricht Treaty by democratically elected parliament. The idea that the British people were somehow subjected to a “bait and switch” con job is simply a fabrication and demonstrates historical ignorance.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by dfawcus on Sunday August 11, 2019 @02:55PM (#20669756)
Yes the nature of the organisation has largely stayed the same, during its name changes: EEC -> EC -> EU. We joined a political union, which had goals at the time to create the SM, and a single currency.

However the UK did not vote to join in a plebiscite. We joined in 73, and had a referendum on leaving in 75.

I'd suggest that the issue in the UK was in part that the changed nature of our constitution after joining was never explained in schools (no Civics classes). Plus almost all discussion of it domestically tended to use the phrase "Common Market".

So we ended up creating a generation who were naturally eurosceptic, and were quite surprised by the changes post '94 once the EU emerged, and the single market reforms came in to existence.

Basically a lot of the people in that generation were not aware that we had joined a political union, with a level of law and government above that of the nation state. The generation before (who voted in '75) should have known that. The various institutions of state (government, civil service, courts, judges, etc) knew.

However that general ignorance existed (and still exists), it being reflected in our MPs, where a lot of them still (after 3 years of confusion) still do not understand the nature of their (and our) relationship with the EU.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by p_l on Sunday August 11, 2019 @03:55AM (#20666965)
EC had explicit goal of "beer closer union", going cm to its immediate predecessor.

Some people claim it was sold as purely economic union, some claim it was well known goal back then.

But a lot of the rules that are supposedly so bad are rules that would be there in a purely economic union.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by twic on Sunday August 11, 2019 @05:33AM (#20667281)
If the European project was really focused on a "beer closer union", it might have been more popular!
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by p_l on Sunday August 11, 2019 @08:55PM (#20671592)
Hahaha. Can't say autocorrupt didn't make a nice change this time ;)
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by pas on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:36AM (#20668115)
There would be new products only, no "changed" ones to circumvent this.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by ekianjo on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:43PM (#20665888)
> I'd also like to see a law passed that requires each product to mention on its packaging if its ingredients (even just their relative proportions) have changed. This would apply to things like foods/drinks and also cleaning products.

Ridiculous proposition.

Formulations change pretty much constantly for various reasons (ingredients become more expensive, or you change suppliers, or you decide to adjust something to make the product better or cheaper or both), and adding bureaucratic friction as well as packaging redesign is completely impractical. Packaging can take several weeks if not month to produce and you would have to constantly throw them away with this kind of rule. Wasteful.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by dbskdb on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:32PM (#20666054)
As a consumer I rather like it when I know how much filler is added in my products

1. I want to be able to compare w other brands 2. I don’t want any filler at all!

If chocolate goes up in price, I’ll pay more to get the real stuff, or buy less of it. I most certainly won’t buy a bar of food wax with chocolate solids, or whatever Hershey is

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by ekianjo on Sunday August 11, 2019 @11:42PM (#20672231)
> As a consumer I rather like it when I know how much filler is added in my products

Depends where you live but many brands actually indicate their content of chocolate directly on the box (70%, 80% etc... unless you buy milk chocolate.

As for not wanting any filler at all: then buy pure cocoa beans! If you buy processed food you should always assume there is some kind of "filler". And not that "fillers" are also necessary sometimes to give a proper texture to what you eat and make sure the taste is consistent from one box to another.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by tzs on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:32AM (#20666252)
That's wrong in regard to food labels. If the formulation has changed in a way that makes those already printed labels inaccurate, they already have to throw them away to comply with Federal law and FDA rules.

All dane-pgp's proposed law would change is that when they change the labels to match the new formulation, which they must do, they would have to include a change date or a version number of something like that on the new label.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by everybodyknows on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:45AM (#20666286)
A "last-modified" date on the standard nutritional info would be great pro-consumer regulation.

Now if we could only get a "roasted-on" date requirement for coffee ...

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by thaumasiotes on Sunday August 11, 2019 @03:09AM (#20666812)
> All dane-pgp's proposed law would change is that when they change the labels to match the new formulation, which they must do, they would have to include a change date or a version number of something like that on the new label.

The proposal was a lot more aggressive than that -- dane-pgp specified that the packaging must mention if the ingredients stay the same but their relative proportions change. Under current law, there is no reason to alter the labeling for such a change[1], so you'd be seeing a huge requirement for new labels that weren't formerly required.

[1] Actually, there are two. First, you might switch up the relative proportions so much that the rank order of the absolute amounts changes, which would require reprinting the ingredients list. This is really unlikely.

Second, you might end up altering the Nutrition Facts information. That would also require relabeling. I don't know how likely that is; the Nutrition Facts panel is a pretty low-resolution instrument.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by unimployed on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:03PM (#20665950)
Ok, but what is your better suggestion to solve the problem of quality or content creep that affects consumers and economic data? Perhaps there is a good way to have consumers be informed, or perhaps there isn’t. But at the very least, accurate data for economic statistics should be available since that same kind of data is available at batch levels for safety and compliance purposes.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by damnyou on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:24AM (#20666225)
You could solve the packaging issue by putting a sticker on the package.

Large manufacturers will be fine, there's no particular reason for society to care about their wellbeing so much.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by petre on Sunday August 11, 2019 @01:23AM (#20666394)
"Now 20% less!”
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by dc90 on Sunday August 11, 2019 @04:54AM (#20667163)
"Now 20% lighter!"
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by randomchar999 on Sunday August 11, 2019 @06:27PM (#20670946)
"Now 20% less calories!" ??
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by anticensor on Sunday August 11, 2019 @07:41AM (#20667686)
Not a good news ?!!!
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by gnicholas on Saturday August 10, 2019 @09:22PM (#20665609)
> now the law says that the packaging must clearly point out if the quantity inside has changed.

We need this law in the US. I’m not one to push for new regulations, but I have seen this happen time and again with big companies (Nabisco, General Mills) that shrink their boxes and count on the customer not to notice.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by mikepurvis on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:38PM (#20665866)
Consumerist (RIP) used to run a great series called the "grocery shrink ray" where they would call out these changes: https://consumerist.com/tag/shrink-ray/
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by eyeball on Sunday August 11, 2019 @06:48AM (#20667513)
Damn. I didn’t know consumerist had been wiped out. Bought by consumer reports?
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by mikepurvis on Sunday August 11, 2019 @07:54PM (#20671313)
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by JumpCrisscross on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:00PM (#20665737)
> We need this law in the US

We'd end up in a miasma of litigation around whether one product is a reduced quantity of another, or if they're separate product lines.

Products already list quantities. That's enough for someone paying attention to value.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by dbskdb on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:34PM (#20666059)
Not composition.

I’ll do the math. But I do want wt%

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by Osiris on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:29PM (#20665841)
I always look at the price per ounce instead of the total price of the item to compare.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by geodel on Saturday August 10, 2019 @09:47PM (#20665701)
Huh, I see most of the time in US price/oz is mentioned along with price of item. This greatly helps me decide if buying larger package could save me some money with having to do calculation myself, which I would have to do in my country.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by winter_blue on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:50PM (#20665902)
Yea, this is something that's always impressed me about this US. In other countries, I have to pull up a calculator app on my phone, and calculate the price per kg for various packaging sizes, to figure out which one is the best deal. It's almost as though store labels in the US are designed with the discerning consumer in mind...
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by blihp on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:10AM (#20666184)
Don't be too impressed. We only have the price per unit listings, ingredient lists etc. as the result of bad business practices (and sometimes deaths) in the previous century. So it's not retailers or manufacturers responding to consumer demand... they're responding to government laws and regulation.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by refurb on Sunday August 11, 2019 @01:54AM (#20666509)
As most regulations are around the world - a response to some problem. It’s not unique to the US.

Do you have a source for the $/Oz being due to bad behavior? From what I’ve heard it was done purely to address consumer demand.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by blihp on Sunday August 11, 2019 @04:52AM (#20667156)
True enough re: them usually being a response to a problem.

See the 'Background' section on page 11 of https://www.nist.gov/document/sp1181-unit-pricing-guidepdf and more generally https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-measures/laws-and-regul.... So yes, it was done purely to address consumer demand... by way of laws and regulations with producers and retailers under threat of even more onerous laws and regulations.

A contemporary example to hopefully convey the situation back then: if 'right to repair' becomes law at some point, this would also be due to consumer demand. Notice the level of interest companies have in addressing this consumer demand prior to legislation being passed...

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by hirsin on Sunday August 11, 2019 @02:20AM (#20666642)
It's rarely purely price/oz. Often it's mixed units - eg for granola bars or similar you'll see four different items listed at -

Price/oz

Price/lb

Price/bar

Price/unit (which might be bar or package of two bars)

So you get tk calculate the difference in your head.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by Shaanie on Sunday August 11, 2019 @05:16AM (#20667231)
Which other countries are you talking about? European countries are, afaik, required to show a comparison price. I'm more surprised there are developed countries that do not require it.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by gnicholas on Saturday August 10, 2019 @09:54PM (#20665717)
Yes, this is helpful for comparing two items on the shelf next to each other, and it is present in some stores. But there are only a few items that I actually remember the price/oz between visits. Mostly I remember only the price per package (if anything). For example, Triscuits and Wheat Thins are a good buy at $2/pack, and OK at $2.50/pack. But when they shrink the pack, I'm SOL because I have no idea what the price/oz equivalent is.

Maybe this is "my fault", but I'd guess that most consumers don't pay that much attention to the exact number of ounces (which are sometimes fractional) in the box.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by unimployed on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:18PM (#20665803)
I always look for price/weight or price/volume or price/count stickers but many retailers and items only list the price making you do the math.

Even then, I’m aware that many items have differences in content which game the price/measurement like a lower ingredient content (less cocoa per measurement and more fillers or water content).

There is not really a great way to combat these practices if you are not some kind of professional buyer that only purchases at wholesale scales.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by Ididntdothis on Saturday August 10, 2019 @09:47PM (#20665697)
On the other hand a lot of candy gets bigger and bigger. I am pretty sure the candy bars and ice cream scoops I got when I was a kid were half of the current size. Or even less.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by dsparkman on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:04PM (#20665960)
I love to watch the shrinkage of ice cream. Over the past 10 years, the standard packaging of ice cream has gone from 1/2 gallon (1.9 L) to where they are currently at 1.4 L, with prices staying relatively the same.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by gnicholas on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:13PM (#20665993)
There’s also the trend toward “whipped” ice cream which has fewer calories and lower COGS because it is mixed with air.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by graycat on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:19PM (#20666008)
There there are alternatives:

(1) Recently I wanted a bag of sugar. At my closest grocery store, the bag was 4 pounds instead of 5. No problem: At my next stop at Sam's Club, I got two bags, 15 pounds each.

(2) Sometimes dish soap comes in small bottles. Okay, at Sam's get a gallon jug of their generic dish soap and with a funnel refill the small bottles. Same for glass cleaner, etc.

(3) Pizza can be $7 to $20. Okay. (i) In a 5 quart bowl, add 750 ml water and 1 T dry yeast. Let the yeast soften. Measure 1 kg of flour. Add 1 T salt to the water, stir, add 2/3rds of the flour, stir, add the rest of the flour, mix some, and dump on a floured board. By hand mix and knead for 8 minutes. Return to the bowl, cover, and let rise to fill the bowl. Dump on the board, form in a long loaf, cut into 8 equal pieces, place each each in a covered plastic bowl, refrigerate. Starting the next day for two weeks or so, for a pizza, take one of the dough pieces, in a microwave proof plate form in a circle 7-9" in diameter, and warm in microwave for 3 minutes. Add 3 T sauce, 1/4 C shredded Mozzarella, and maybe some pepperoni, sausage, etc., place in a clean steel pan, over medium heat, covered, for 13 minutes, move to a cutting board, slice, slide to a dinner plate, add 1 T of grated hard cheese, and eat. Get the flour, 25 pounds, at Sam's, and then the flour for one pizza is about 9 cents. With good toppings, the total cost is still about $1. So, anytime, in 20 minutes, 7 of effort and 13 waiting, get a pizza faster, better, and cheaper than frozen, carryout, or delivery.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by JackFr on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:40PM (#20666084)
> So, anytime, in 20 minutes, 7 of effort and 13 waiting, get a pizza faster, better, and cheaper than frozen, carryout, or delivery.

I don't know where you live, but in Manhattan your version will be cheaper, but it will definitely not be better and most likely will be no faster.

Neither your stove nor your oven can match a commercial pizza oven.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by graycat on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:02AM (#20666159)
As I wrote, I don't use an oven! Instead I finish the baking in a covered steel pan, and this does give a crisp bottom.

> match a commercial pizza oven.

"Match" in what sense? What I described is different but works great.

For the 20 minutes, even in Manhattan, tough to take the order, make and bake the pizza, slice it, box it, and deliver it, all in 20 minutes.

For the quality, that's a matter of taste, but frozen, carryout, and delivery don't use better ingredients.

Whatever strong opinions some people in Manhattan may have about pizza, for the world of pizza, Manhattan is a very tiny place. E.g., apparently all or nearly all Sam's Clubs scattered all across the US sell 5 pound bags of part skim, shredded, Mozzarella cheese, and no doubt nearly all of it goes for pizza: Pizza is all over the US and much of the rest of the world -- in comparison, Manhattan is a small thing!

By the way, for delivering a pizza quickly, there is a fundamental problem made fully clear in queuing theory: The orders have to arrive essentially as a Poisson process. But the pizza shop has only fixed capacity in pizzas made per minute. So, we have random demand fed to a fixed resource. Then the pizza shop has just two alternatives, (i) deliver quickly but have a lot of expensive time where the delivery people are doing nothing and (2) delivery slowly, from a queue, where the delivery people are busy but the customers have to wait.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by pjmorris on Sunday August 11, 2019 @02:50PM (#20669729)
I've wondered whether an unbaked pizza could be slotted in to a preheated pizza stone 'cage', slipped in to a heat sink type cooler for transportation, and bake while it's on its way to its destination. Assuming the details could be worked out, the customer would have hotter, fresher pizza, and the pizza shop could better match its resources to demand. Even if the tech could be worked out, it seems accident prone compared to the current situation.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by 18pfsmt on Sunday August 11, 2019 @08:55PM (#20671594)
As I read your parent's comment, my mind was drifting in the direction of your comment. Domino's is said to be working on such a thing, but more of warming rather than a cooking setup. The good pizza places I know use ovens that are ~500F. A couple issues: Is that feasible or safe in a vehicle? How about different distances to the delivery location resulting in overcooking/undercooking some pizzas?

I live a couple blocks from a pizza place. I order, wait 10 min, then turn on my oven, and then pick it up 10 min later.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by gnicholas on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:29PM (#20671727)
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by darkwater on Sunday August 11, 2019 @03:18AM (#20666843)
You bake the pizza in a what? My Italian origins strongly disapprove this :/
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by jobigoud on Sunday August 11, 2019 @04:49AM (#20667138)
Not OP but when I have pizza leftovers I also reheat them in a frying pan. It works pretty well :-)
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by graycat on Sunday August 11, 2019 @06:16PM (#20670895)
So far it looks like the flour, yeast, salt, water, sauce, cheese, and sausage don't know about transgressions of Italian origins and traditions!
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by 18pfsmt on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:31PM (#20671739)
I think you should use a quality pizza stone, but you were unfairly treated for espousing the idea that one would choose to use quality ingredients, rather than accepting some inferior product (or at least a relatively expensive product).
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by graycat on Sunday August 11, 2019 @11:09PM (#20672083)
A pizza stone needs an oven, typically a quite hot oven, and some significantly long pre-heating. The stone gives a crisp bottom.

For the actual, final baking, I'm not using an oven and am using just a common, restaurant style, all steel saute pan with a circular flat bottom about 8" in diameter. So, I get the bottom of the pizza crisp and as brown as I want. And I cover the pan to create an oven that does cook the dough some more and melt the cheese.

All of this is my response to the OP about shrinkflation. I've outlined a response -- 20 minutes, 9 cents of flour, crisp bottom, sauce, cheese, and sausage of your choice, etc. My post is just in response to the OP's shrinkflation and not throwing down a gauntlet as the world's greatest pizza, better than NYC, Chicago, Naples, etc. For one, do some arithmetic on the 1 kg of flour, split 8 ways, and the 7" diameter -- get a relatively thick pizza, and people who want pizza very thin might not be happy.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by TomMckenny on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:26AM (#20666233)
Instead, toilet paper literally says 12=48 and the like.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by Spooky23 on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:16PM (#20666002)
One of the big tuna vendors would shrink rat like 1/16 of an ounce from tuna cans. Just raise the price, nobody is fooled.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by JackFr on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:46PM (#20666112)
> We need this law in the US. I’m not one to push for new regulations, but I have seen this happen time and again with big companies (Nabisco, General Mills) that shrink their boxes and count on the customer not to notice.

Except for fast-food companies, which we've been told have slyly been increasing their portion sizes and making us fat.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17585324

Or maybe we could just stop being victims of the evil corporations and we take responsibility for our lives.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by segfaultbuserr on Sunday August 11, 2019 @01:05AM (#20666348)
Also occurred in China after 2007. First it was just the usual inflation of the general level of price, the most obvious sign was the inflating price of food in supermarkets and meals in restaurants. However, as it progressed, the restaurant owners seemed to believe that, if they keep rising price, it would be extremely unpopular, so the prices kept roughly at the same level, but the amount of food in the dishes becomes smaller and smaller.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by odiroot on Sunday August 11, 2019 @04:02AM (#20666983)
> Chocolate bars used to have 200g. Some now have less than 100g.

I think it's a very good development.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by samsonradu on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:12AM (#20668017)
Agree! If there's any inflation I'd like to see it's for sugar products.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by 18pfsmt on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:54PM (#20671835)
Sugars are heavily involved in inter cellular signaling we still do not understand at all. All sugars occur in nature within highly fibrous constituents. Fiber has been the helpful constituent on the side that helped with digestion of sugar, but when it isn't simultaneously present, it's a problem.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by burfog on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:42PM (#20666098)
Toilet paper should be measured by volume, not length.

Both width and thickness of the sheets can vary. For both, larger is better. All three measurements interact together when forming a wad of paper. All three contribute to the size of the wad.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by jml7c5 on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:45PM (#20666107)
Density also matters, or you could cheat and sell a roll of paper "fluff".

Also, many people fold rather than wad.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by majewsky on Monday August 12, 2019 @04:55AM (#20673683)
> Also, many people fold rather than wad.

This. Mass is just a nonsense unit for me as a folder. You might as well be advertising density or albedo. If anything, I'd want the base unit to be

  number of sheets * number of layers per sheet
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by spacehome on Sunday August 11, 2019 @01:26AM (#20666409)
You could multiply all of those together to get mass.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by artwr on Sunday August 11, 2019 @04:05AM (#20666990)
Cue the heavy cardboard rolls in the middle.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by nootka on Sunday August 11, 2019 @05:48AM (#20667327)
Wadding is a sub-optimal wiping technique. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=G.I.%2bbutt%2bwipe&amp=true

That said, the general point of your post still stands.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by majewsky on Monday August 12, 2019 @04:56AM (#20673692)
WTF happened with this link? Fixed version: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=G.I.+butt+wi...