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Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by gnicholas on Saturday August 10, 2019 @09:22PM (#20665609)
> now the law says that the packaging must clearly point out if the quantity inside has changed.

We need this law in the US. I’m not one to push for new regulations, but I have seen this happen time and again with big companies (Nabisco, General Mills) that shrink their boxes and count on the customer not to notice.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by mikepurvis on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:38PM (#20665866)
Consumerist (RIP) used to run a great series called the "grocery shrink ray" where they would call out these changes: https://consumerist.com/tag/shrink-ray/
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by eyeball on Sunday August 11, 2019 @06:48AM (#20667513)
Damn. I didn’t know consumerist had been wiped out. Bought by consumer reports?
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by mikepurvis on Sunday August 11, 2019 @07:54PM (#20671313)
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by JumpCrisscross on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:00PM (#20665737)
> We need this law in the US

We'd end up in a miasma of litigation around whether one product is a reduced quantity of another, or if they're separate product lines.

Products already list quantities. That's enough for someone paying attention to value.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by dbskdb on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:34PM (#20666059)
Not composition.

I’ll do the math. But I do want wt%

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by Osiris on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:29PM (#20665841)
I always look at the price per ounce instead of the total price of the item to compare.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by geodel on Saturday August 10, 2019 @09:47PM (#20665701)
Huh, I see most of the time in US price/oz is mentioned along with price of item. This greatly helps me decide if buying larger package could save me some money with having to do calculation myself, which I would have to do in my country.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by winter_blue on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:50PM (#20665902)
Yea, this is something that's always impressed me about this US. In other countries, I have to pull up a calculator app on my phone, and calculate the price per kg for various packaging sizes, to figure out which one is the best deal. It's almost as though store labels in the US are designed with the discerning consumer in mind...
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by blihp on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:10AM (#20666184)
Don't be too impressed. We only have the price per unit listings, ingredient lists etc. as the result of bad business practices (and sometimes deaths) in the previous century. So it's not retailers or manufacturers responding to consumer demand... they're responding to government laws and regulation.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by refurb on Sunday August 11, 2019 @01:54AM (#20666509)
As most regulations are around the world - a response to some problem. It’s not unique to the US.

Do you have a source for the $/Oz being due to bad behavior? From what I’ve heard it was done purely to address consumer demand.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by blihp on Sunday August 11, 2019 @04:52AM (#20667156)
True enough re: them usually being a response to a problem.

See the 'Background' section on page 11 of https://www.nist.gov/document/sp1181-unit-pricing-guidepdf and more generally https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-measures/laws-and-regul.... So yes, it was done purely to address consumer demand... by way of laws and regulations with producers and retailers under threat of even more onerous laws and regulations.

A contemporary example to hopefully convey the situation back then: if 'right to repair' becomes law at some point, this would also be due to consumer demand. Notice the level of interest companies have in addressing this consumer demand prior to legislation being passed...

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by hirsin on Sunday August 11, 2019 @02:20AM (#20666642)
It's rarely purely price/oz. Often it's mixed units - eg for granola bars or similar you'll see four different items listed at -

Price/oz

Price/lb

Price/bar

Price/unit (which might be bar or package of two bars)

So you get tk calculate the difference in your head.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by Shaanie on Sunday August 11, 2019 @05:16AM (#20667231)
Which other countries are you talking about? European countries are, afaik, required to show a comparison price. I'm more surprised there are developed countries that do not require it.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by gnicholas on Saturday August 10, 2019 @09:54PM (#20665717)
Yes, this is helpful for comparing two items on the shelf next to each other, and it is present in some stores. But there are only a few items that I actually remember the price/oz between visits. Mostly I remember only the price per package (if anything). For example, Triscuits and Wheat Thins are a good buy at $2/pack, and OK at $2.50/pack. But when they shrink the pack, I'm SOL because I have no idea what the price/oz equivalent is.

Maybe this is "my fault", but I'd guess that most consumers don't pay that much attention to the exact number of ounces (which are sometimes fractional) in the box.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by unimployed on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:18PM (#20665803)
I always look for price/weight or price/volume or price/count stickers but many retailers and items only list the price making you do the math.

Even then, I’m aware that many items have differences in content which game the price/measurement like a lower ingredient content (less cocoa per measurement and more fillers or water content).

There is not really a great way to combat these practices if you are not some kind of professional buyer that only purchases at wholesale scales.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by Ididntdothis on Saturday August 10, 2019 @09:47PM (#20665697)
On the other hand a lot of candy gets bigger and bigger. I am pretty sure the candy bars and ice cream scoops I got when I was a kid were half of the current size. Or even less.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by dsparkman on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:04PM (#20665960)
I love to watch the shrinkage of ice cream. Over the past 10 years, the standard packaging of ice cream has gone from 1/2 gallon (1.9 L) to where they are currently at 1.4 L, with prices staying relatively the same.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by gnicholas on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:13PM (#20665993)
There’s also the trend toward “whipped” ice cream which has fewer calories and lower COGS because it is mixed with air.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by graycat on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:19PM (#20666008)
There there are alternatives:

(1) Recently I wanted a bag of sugar. At my closest grocery store, the bag was 4 pounds instead of 5. No problem: At my next stop at Sam's Club, I got two bags, 15 pounds each.

(2) Sometimes dish soap comes in small bottles. Okay, at Sam's get a gallon jug of their generic dish soap and with a funnel refill the small bottles. Same for glass cleaner, etc.

(3) Pizza can be $7 to $20. Okay. (i) In a 5 quart bowl, add 750 ml water and 1 T dry yeast. Let the yeast soften. Measure 1 kg of flour. Add 1 T salt to the water, stir, add 2/3rds of the flour, stir, add the rest of the flour, mix some, and dump on a floured board. By hand mix and knead for 8 minutes. Return to the bowl, cover, and let rise to fill the bowl. Dump on the board, form in a long loaf, cut into 8 equal pieces, place each each in a covered plastic bowl, refrigerate. Starting the next day for two weeks or so, for a pizza, take one of the dough pieces, in a microwave proof plate form in a circle 7-9" in diameter, and warm in microwave for 3 minutes. Add 3 T sauce, 1/4 C shredded Mozzarella, and maybe some pepperoni, sausage, etc., place in a clean steel pan, over medium heat, covered, for 13 minutes, move to a cutting board, slice, slide to a dinner plate, add 1 T of grated hard cheese, and eat. Get the flour, 25 pounds, at Sam's, and then the flour for one pizza is about 9 cents. With good toppings, the total cost is still about $1. So, anytime, in 20 minutes, 7 of effort and 13 waiting, get a pizza faster, better, and cheaper than frozen, carryout, or delivery.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by JackFr on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:40PM (#20666084)
> So, anytime, in 20 minutes, 7 of effort and 13 waiting, get a pizza faster, better, and cheaper than frozen, carryout, or delivery.

I don't know where you live, but in Manhattan your version will be cheaper, but it will definitely not be better and most likely will be no faster.

Neither your stove nor your oven can match a commercial pizza oven.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by graycat on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:02AM (#20666159)
As I wrote, I don't use an oven! Instead I finish the baking in a covered steel pan, and this does give a crisp bottom.

> match a commercial pizza oven.

"Match" in what sense? What I described is different but works great.

For the 20 minutes, even in Manhattan, tough to take the order, make and bake the pizza, slice it, box it, and deliver it, all in 20 minutes.

For the quality, that's a matter of taste, but frozen, carryout, and delivery don't use better ingredients.

Whatever strong opinions some people in Manhattan may have about pizza, for the world of pizza, Manhattan is a very tiny place. E.g., apparently all or nearly all Sam's Clubs scattered all across the US sell 5 pound bags of part skim, shredded, Mozzarella cheese, and no doubt nearly all of it goes for pizza: Pizza is all over the US and much of the rest of the world -- in comparison, Manhattan is a small thing!

By the way, for delivering a pizza quickly, there is a fundamental problem made fully clear in queuing theory: The orders have to arrive essentially as a Poisson process. But the pizza shop has only fixed capacity in pizzas made per minute. So, we have random demand fed to a fixed resource. Then the pizza shop has just two alternatives, (i) deliver quickly but have a lot of expensive time where the delivery people are doing nothing and (2) delivery slowly, from a queue, where the delivery people are busy but the customers have to wait.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by pjmorris on Sunday August 11, 2019 @02:50PM (#20669729)
I've wondered whether an unbaked pizza could be slotted in to a preheated pizza stone 'cage', slipped in to a heat sink type cooler for transportation, and bake while it's on its way to its destination. Assuming the details could be worked out, the customer would have hotter, fresher pizza, and the pizza shop could better match its resources to demand. Even if the tech could be worked out, it seems accident prone compared to the current situation.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by 18pfsmt on Sunday August 11, 2019 @08:55PM (#20671594)
As I read your parent's comment, my mind was drifting in the direction of your comment. Domino's is said to be working on such a thing, but more of warming rather than a cooking setup. The good pizza places I know use ovens that are ~500F. A couple issues: Is that feasible or safe in a vehicle? How about different distances to the delivery location resulting in overcooking/undercooking some pizzas?

I live a couple blocks from a pizza place. I order, wait 10 min, then turn on my oven, and then pick it up 10 min later.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by gnicholas on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:29PM (#20671727)
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by darkwater on Sunday August 11, 2019 @03:18AM (#20666843)
You bake the pizza in a what? My Italian origins strongly disapprove this :/
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by jobigoud on Sunday August 11, 2019 @04:49AM (#20667138)
Not OP but when I have pizza leftovers I also reheat them in a frying pan. It works pretty well :-)
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by graycat on Sunday August 11, 2019 @06:16PM (#20670895)
So far it looks like the flour, yeast, salt, water, sauce, cheese, and sausage don't know about transgressions of Italian origins and traditions!
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by 18pfsmt on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:31PM (#20671739)
I think you should use a quality pizza stone, but you were unfairly treated for espousing the idea that one would choose to use quality ingredients, rather than accepting some inferior product (or at least a relatively expensive product).
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by graycat on Sunday August 11, 2019 @11:09PM (#20672083)
A pizza stone needs an oven, typically a quite hot oven, and some significantly long pre-heating. The stone gives a crisp bottom.

For the actual, final baking, I'm not using an oven and am using just a common, restaurant style, all steel saute pan with a circular flat bottom about 8" in diameter. So, I get the bottom of the pizza crisp and as brown as I want. And I cover the pan to create an oven that does cook the dough some more and melt the cheese.

All of this is my response to the OP about shrinkflation. I've outlined a response -- 20 minutes, 9 cents of flour, crisp bottom, sauce, cheese, and sausage of your choice, etc. My post is just in response to the OP's shrinkflation and not throwing down a gauntlet as the world's greatest pizza, better than NYC, Chicago, Naples, etc. For one, do some arithmetic on the 1 kg of flour, split 8 ways, and the 7" diameter -- get a relatively thick pizza, and people who want pizza very thin might not be happy.

Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by TomMckenny on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:26AM (#20666233)
Instead, toilet paper literally says 12=48 and the like.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by Spooky23 on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:16PM (#20666002)
One of the big tuna vendors would shrink rat like 1/16 of an ounce from tuna cans. Just raise the price, nobody is fooled.
Re:How shrinkflation is playing havoc with economists’ models by JackFr on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:46PM (#20666112)
> We need this law in the US. I’m not one to push for new regulations, but I have seen this happen time and again with big companies (Nabisco, General Mills) that shrink their boxes and count on the customer not to notice.

Except for fast-food companies, which we've been told have slyly been increasing their portion sizes and making us fat.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17585324

Or maybe we could just stop being victims of the evil corporations and we take responsibility for our lives.