News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by standardUser on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:35PM (#20648419)
The difference between taxi fares and Uber/Lyft fares has all but vanished. People were willing to pay taxi rates all along, now they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by dcchambers on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:01PM (#20648713)
I can't speak for everyone, but for me it was never about the cost. It was about the ability to easily/instantly schedule a ride without having to call a phone number and wait for a ride which was notoriously unreliable, and not having to deal with cash or the classic line "my credit card machine doesn't work."

Virtually all of the cab companies still around now have mobile apps and many of them have all the features that Uber/Lyft have (card payment via app, car-tracking, etc).

It's still a win for the consumer, even if you're using old school cab companies.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by apta on Thursday August 08, 2019 @06:43PM (#20649633)
Question is, which cab app are you going to download, especially when you're traveling? If you use Uber/Lyft (especially the former), you're practically guaranteed that you'll be able to use it at your destination.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by vasco on Thursday August 08, 2019 @07:14PM (#20649879)
Lyft only operates in the US, so that seems like it's not true at least for one of the two.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by xeromal on Thursday August 08, 2019 @11:27PM (#20651113)
Most of American's day to day travel is in the US though. The majority of us "might" travel outside the US for a week or two, but otherwise it's safe to say lyft is in the city you're traveling to.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by tim333 on Friday August 09, 2019 @05:22AM (#20652635)
I'd google "cab app in country <x>". Some places it's not Uber. Vietnam it's Grab, Germany I think you have to use a regular cab.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by danbender on Saturday August 10, 2019 @07:27AM (#20661462)
@tim333, In Germany, you could use, e.g., "MyTaxi" which is now called "FreeNow" since a recent, hilariously bad rebranding attempt(1) by its owner Daimler.

(1) BMW and Daimler will invest $1B in their new joint venture (https://www.your-now.com/) that brings their mobility services under one roof.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by zippergz on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:42PM (#20649124)
This is 100% true for me as well. I am, in fact, willing to pay MORE for an Uber- or Lyft-like service than for a traditional cab, because the experience is generally much better.

However, I also have to acknowledge that I think I'm an outlier, because I have many friends (most of whom could easily afford it) who complain about prices every time this topic comes up. I think that as a society we'd be better off if people could truly internalize the truth of "you get what you pay for," and stop buying solely based on price, but that's not the world we live in.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by orbifold on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:17AM (#20653219)
It‘s super easy to call a cab in Germany and they arrive within 5-10 minutes. A lot of them are nice Mercedes. I really don’t see how doing a call that takes ~30 seconds and paying by cash that you carry around anyways (~100€ in cash on hand is super normal in Germany) is any worse than booking a ride through Über.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by Strom on Friday August 09, 2019 @07:52AM (#20653426)
If you go out of Germany you'll see that Germany is pretty unique in it's love for cash. Especially striking when you go north. The more north you go from Germany, the less cash there is, with plenty of places in say Sweden or Estonia where cash isn't even accepted. Thus suddenly having to have cash for a taxi is very jarring. (I don't even remember the last time I paid for anything in cash in Estonia. Definitely more than 10 years ago. On the flipside, every small city restaurant I visited in Germany in 2019 didn't accept cards.)

As for a ~30 second call resulting in a success story, that does sound pretty good indeed.

Let me tell you what my decades of taxi ordering experience in Estonia looks like. I call a taxi company [1], wait about a minute, nobody even picks up the phone. I try another company. I finally get someone to pick up, I tell them where I am, and they proceed to tell me that they have no taxis available. I have to call a new company. Eventually when the 5th company promises to send a taxi, there's a greater than 10% chance that they never show up. Sometimes I call the taxi company and they say the driver went on a break. Other times they say the driver picked up someone else on the way to my location. Sometimes the company has no clue whatsoever why the taxi didn't arrive.

With this old system, whenever I was in a rush, the most time-optimal plan was to run to the closest taxi stop and physically find a taxi.

The arrival of Uber & friends has mostly removed this nonsense. It's all so much more reliable. Although not 100%, sometimes when I'm ordering from a suburb, the driver will call me and ask if I'm willing to pay extra in cash for them to come out. If I say no, they cancel the order.

--

[1] All these calls are to reasonably priced taxi companies, similar to Uber pricing. If I were willing to pay 3x price, there are plenty of premium taxi companies who will come and roll out the red carpet in exchange for your wallet.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by dcchambers on Friday August 09, 2019 @08:15AM (#20653582)
I live in a mid-sized city in the US. Before Uber and Lyft, if I wanted to get a ride, I had to call into a central number (sometimes with a 5-10 minute hold) and then had to schedule a ride. IF someone was available right away, it would typically take 30 minutes for them to arrive - and it's not uncommon for them to simply never show up. The cars are not Mercedes, but your regular utilitarian cabs. What you are describing sounds great, but is far from the norm in the world.

I don't mind cash but I rarely have it on me.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by areyousure on Friday August 09, 2019 @01:57PM (#20656776)
Maybe you don't speak German?
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by hn_throwaway_99 on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:41PM (#20648486)
> People were willing to pay taxi rates all along

Baloney. The market size of people willing to pay taxi rates for transportation is much smaller that the market sizes currently implied by Uber and Lyft's valuation. Before Uber and Lyft, most people I know would only take taxis very occasionally, for special occasions or emergencies. Once Uber and Lyft started offering such good rates they would use ride sharing much more often.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by TuringNYC on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:46PM (#20648536)
Consider pool rides -- which were never part of the traditional offerings. Pool rides from Uber/Lyft lowered cost while expanding the market.

Consider all the places where you needed a taxi but wouldnt know how to hail one -- Uber/Lyft expanded the market here.

I was recently in Taiwan and needed a ride, but could not describe the address to a driver who did not speak English. Uber to the rescue -- again the market got expanded.

It isnt all about cost.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by Scoundreller on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:57PM (#20648671)
Uber/Lyft are also great when you can expense your trips.

Not having to deal with (local) cash or a constantly “broken” credit card machine are also pluses.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by nradov on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:05PM (#20648752)
Uber and Lyft can now feed receipts directly into corporate expense reporting systems which is a major time saver for frequent business travelers.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by Scoundreller on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:23PM (#20648942)
There are some hospital EHRs that integrate too, so you can book your patients a ride to/from. If they get there late or don’t arrive, it’s a big cost.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by inferiorhuman on Thursday August 08, 2019 @09:55PM (#20650704)
I found that if I used my corp card, transit stuff was automatically categorized just fine.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by Scoundreller on Thursday August 08, 2019 @11:31PM (#20651126)
It’s getting your taxi driver to take your card in the first place that can be an issue. I guess they’re high risk merchants and pay high rates?

Then you may require the actual receipt for your expense. Sometimes the Corp wants more than a credit card invoice for their accounting.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by inferiorhuman on Friday August 09, 2019 @01:16AM (#20651507)
It’s getting your taxi driver to take your card in the first place that can be an issue. I guess they’re high risk merchants and pay high rates?

The only place I've seen acceptance be a problem is San Francisco (although I've certainly heard it's a problem in other American cities). I can't speak to other cities but in San Francisco the cabbies are required to pay pretty hefty fees for credit card usage. But Uber and Lyft take a big chunk of the pie and leave no cash option so there's that.

I've been to a couple cities where credit cards were not accepted as a general rule (cabbies didn't even have the equipment). But in cities where I've used a card I've asked and generally been told they'd never do anything that ridiculous. Of course I typically have a strong preference for public transit so cab rides are the exception rather than the rule for me.

As for accounting, merchants already get a category assigned to them by their credit card processor. Generally there's enough specificity that something like a few cab rides shouldn't need much more clarification (although receipts may be required if you cross a threshold or exhibit some suspicious pattern).

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by o-__-o on Thursday August 08, 2019 @10:00PM (#20650731)
Taxis would give me blank receipts and tell me to fill in the amount. Free money!

Now Uber and Lyft has made it harder to embezzle from my job :(

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by inferiorhuman on Thursday August 08, 2019 @10:00PM (#20650728)
I was recently in Taiwan and needed a ride, but could not describe the address to a driver who did not speak English. Uber to the rescue -- again the market got expanded.

The only time I've been in a situation where I needed to take a taxi but didn't speak a common language was in Paris. I simply showed the driver the address as written and he got us there with no problems whatsoever. Granted Paris is pretty easy that way as rides (both taxi and Uber) from the airport are fixed price.

Alternatively I bet just pulling up the location on a mapping app would be enough. Of course in most countries I've been to, the public transit infrastructure was good enough that I never wanted to bother with a taxi of any sort.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by hn_throwaway_99 on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:22PM (#20648927)
I don't really disagree with what you're saying. My point is that Uber's market cap of nearly 75 billion dollars implies they will be taking a lot more of the world's overall transportation budget than, say, pool rides will account for.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by TylerE on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:00PM (#20648698)
At least for me, when I needed one, the issues with taxis was NEVER the cost. It was FINDING one of the damn things.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by jonknee on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:55PM (#20648637)
In many places it's all but near impossible to get a taxi in a timely manner, money wasn't the only thing preventing people from using them.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by just_myles on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:11PM (#20648820)
I rarely took taxis because of the cost. Uber and Lyft value is their price and the ease of getting a ride. However, as we know, this is not a sustainable model (Extremely discount rides.).

Kinda sucks to see as I think the idea of the service is good.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by itake on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:40PM (#20648474)
I think what he is saying is the demand for Lyft / Uber was manufactured by low prices. Now that they are more expensive, people are using public transit more.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by jonknee on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:55PM (#20648642)
Except total rides on both platforms are at all time highs?
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by jeromegv on Thursday August 08, 2019 @06:18PM (#20649448)
Well they are covering more markets internationally. Wonder what happened in mature market (ie: big north american cities)
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by awakeasleep on Friday August 09, 2019 @11:49AM (#20655442)
So is public transit ridership
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by refurb on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:20PM (#20648902)
I agree with this.

Even if rates went up to what cabs were (still cheaper in SF in my experience), I wouldn't switch back to cabs. I'd still user Uber/Lyft for the convenience and higher quality product.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by semi-extrinsic on Friday August 09, 2019 @12:36AM (#20651369)
I'm confused about people mentioning "higher quality product" and others sharing stories about riding in cars with big holes in the floor, drivers peeing in bottles, etc.

Are those stories very uncommon, or does the cab market in SF etc. manage to be even less quality?

Round here, a cab is at worst an 8 year old Toyota Prius, at best a new Mercedes or a Tesla, and the cab companies all have apps that let you book rides and see where the car picking you up is right now.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by fgonzag on Friday August 09, 2019 @01:40AM (#20651609)
I still see some Crown Vics rolling around in El Paso
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by ummonk on Friday August 09, 2019 @01:30AM (#20651569)
Not many people were using cabs for regular travel before Uber and Lyft though.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by acchow on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:47PM (#20648555)
Uber Pool and Lyft Line opened up a new product price point for a huge number of consumers that taxis couldn't hit.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by toomuchtodo on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:36PM (#20648431)
> now they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service.

Only until Uber and Lyft run out of cash (a few more quarters based on cash on hand), at which point taxi fares will rise to properly reflect the actual cost of the service.

People will choose a combination of walking, public transit, traditional cab companies, and perhaps an e-scooter and/or bicycle. We lived before Uber and Lyft, we'll live after them. Fun experiment while it lasted.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by beeneuf on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:50PM (#20648593)
After my experiences having grown up with cabs, I am honestly willing to pay a significant premium to use Uber and Lyft.

It is not an understatement to say that I hate traditional taxis. I hate the terrible service. I hate having them refuse fares based on where I'm going. I hate calling to schedule a pickup in advance and the driver just not bothering to show up. I hate being pressured to pay in cash instead of credit card and having them berate and insult me when I insist on card. I hate having to be on alert to see if they're taking a deliberately longer route or running up the meter. I hate the verbal and sexual harassment they have doled out to me and my friends with no consequences, because there is absolutely nothing in their business model that provides them any incentive to treat their customers with courtesy and respect.

I want to see taxis crash and burn, I want to see them fail, I want to see them removed from my experience on this earth. I don't think I'm alone in that, and I will continue to use Uber and Lyft and pay far more than taxis because they provide an exceptionally better service.

Also Uber Pool/Lyft Line are brilliant and taxis will never bother to replicate that kind of efficiency.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by toomuchtodo on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:53PM (#20648611)
With all due respect (I can appreciate paying more for quality, I do so myself!), there are not enough of you to justify rideshare valuations (which are based on taking over the world, not being a boutique transportation network for the discerning mobility user).
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by beeneuf on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:00PM (#20648703)
Agreed, their current valuations cannot be justified. I'd argue the same can be said of most tech companies right now, though. At some point the markets are going to have to acknowledge that taking over the world/infinite growth is just not going to happen for all (or any) of the companies promising it, and some incredibly disappointing and painful market adjustments will have to be made. I am hoping some rideshare companies - or similar competitors - can ride it out and eventually settle into something more realistic with higher fares, because I believe the market is there. I think the world in general needs to start thinking about what it looks like to make sustainable companies instead of cancer-like world-conquering monoliths. It may not be a reasonable dream, though - Uber is definitely too far gone. I'm less certain about Lyft.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by switch007 on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:02PM (#20648720)
In the past month, I and friends/family have experienced the following with Uber:

- Accusations of racism

- Dangerous driving

- Detours/no idea where they're going

- Being held hostage (took 4 very strong demands to be let out)

- Given a lecture because the driver couldn't find the address and told if you don't like the service to get out.

The grass isn't always greener

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by beeneuf on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:30PM (#20649001)
Sure, those problems can still exist with Uber - but drivers who cause problems are systematically weeded out over time. I've had my fair share of issues, but it makes a big difference to me that once I give a driver a bad rating/report them to Uber they will never be matched with me again, and if they consistently deliver bad experiences they will eventually be removed altogether. A taxi driver can exhibit the same bad behaviour for decades and suffer no consequences. The human element always means bad actors will be present, but under rideshares they are removed over time (and customer input is taken seriously) and under taxis they thrive (customer reports of harassment are literally laughed at). The helplessness is infuriating.

I have a bad experience maybe 10% of the time I take a rideshare, with taxis it's more like 75%. That does mean bad experiences will continue to happen either way, but I still favour the former and will pay more for it. Plus ridesharing still has the benefit of pooling, knowing costs up front, paying through cards without harassment, having the company keep a detailed record of your pickup/dropoff and route so reports of issues can be substantiated, quickly rescheduling if a driver fails to show (plus a map to see when a driver is not on route), etc. I think it's a clear win - at worst they share some of the problems taxis have, but taxis share none of the benefits that rideshares have.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by switch007 on Friday August 09, 2019 @02:10AM (#20651717)
> A taxi driver can exhibit the same bad behaviour for decades and suffer no consequences

We take taxis quite seriously in England. They are granted licences from the local government (the council). They are overseen by Licensing Officers.

I've only reported a taxi driver once (I can't recall exactly what for, but it wasn't anything too egregious), but it seemed like a swift and thorough investigation. They quicky summoned the driver to their office to explain himself and then gave me a report on the matter.

Customer input seemed to be taken quite seriously.

However, it seems the licensing framework does seem centred around drivers' criminal convictions, so the police would have to be involved in serious matters.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by cameronbrown on Friday August 09, 2019 @01:42AM (#20651621)
Unless Uber keeps its drivers to account, this is unacceptable. Nobody should have to be scared of their own taxi driver.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by standardUser on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:27PM (#20648976)
I take rideshare services multiple times per week with zero problems. Maybe it has something to do with the region/city? I've had the occasional issues, and in a few cases I've gotten out and called another car. But around 98% of the time it's completely frictionless.
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by o-__-o on Thursday August 08, 2019 @10:02PM (#20650746)
Never had the 70 year old driver who drives 5mph under the speed limit and stops for any thing that looks like its near the road? Then I say your post is a big lie!
Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by RandallBrown on Thursday August 08, 2019 @05:07PM (#20648796)
I don't believe that Uber/Lyft/Someone can't operate a ride sharing service at a profit. Taxis have done it for decades and now that the technologies have been invented, I don't see any reason Uber/Lyft can't ever be profitable. They may not be profitable enough to justify the amount of investment they've received, but they'll likely still exist in some for or another.

The cat is out of the bag. Nobody is going back to taxis.

Re:Uber Posts $5.2B Loss and Slowest Ever Growth Rate by holler on Thursday August 08, 2019 @04:51PM (#20648597)
> they are doing so and getting what is arguably a much better service.

Not sure if I agree. The convenience of the Uber/Lyft app's is still superior to a taxi service in most cases. The only time I'll take a cab is if it happens to be right in front of me and I'm in a hurry.