Unpopular opinion but I think you're reading way too much into it. People try to insert emotion/intent and end up getting offended by something that may or may not be behind the words. It's pretty natural because in normal conversation it's much easier to tell when someone's being condescending to you compared to text on a screen.

Maybe we just can't help but be offended by nitpicking words because we're all a little insecure from imposter's syndrome, I dunno.

I agree that "please" is not helpful. Only say "please" if you genuinely mean "well, this is my preference, but the alternative is fine too". It's impossible to take something impolite and make it polite by adding "please" - and you may obtain the opposite result. No matter what a dictionary says.

There's actually differences between Australia and England in the utility of "please". In England, fines get paid faster and more reliably if you say "Please pay now". In Australia, they get paid faster and more reliably if you say "Pay now". If I got a fine that said "please pay now" I'd genuinely think I was freely allowed to not pay now if I didn't want to.

And when I was over there, it was really jarring/humorous where there were all these official signs saying "please do this, please don't do that", especially the ones that said "please don't do that, penalty 50 pounds".

So obviously this is regional. I don't really expect anyone to know who they're code reviewing for, but everyone should be aware that there's nothing universal in the interpretation of "please".

I agree about "please" coming across as condescending.

One way I write around it is to frame discussion in terms of "we" and not "you." I think "we" reinforces the collective ownership of the code and de-emphasizes the idea of the review being me vs. you.

I wrote more about this technique a couple years ago:

https://mtlynch.io/human-code-reviews-1/#never-say-you

“Could you please align these variable definitions so they’re easier to read.” Is considered a polite imperative [0].

[0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/question-mark-...

Depends where you are. In the UK, "please could you..." is much more polite than "could you please...", which is quite direct and potentially rude.

like the British thing of reading "thanks so much" or "thanks a lot" at the end of an email as sarcastic.

I think you'll find we're capable of making or reading any phrase as sarcastic :)

Less flippantly (but still true), knowing that there's at least two ways to interpret something and that at least one of them may be humorous helps me remember not to assume bad intent when I hear or read something I don't like. Often it's just their clumsiness or my over-sensitivity.

On the other hand, perhaps it also helps me hear more of the slights that are in there too! You can't win 'em all.

I even find the "Could you" condescending.

[I think] variable definitions should be aligned so they're easier to read.

This is extremely passive. Cool you think that, but do you want them to do anything about it?

Maybe "please align the variable definitions."

It's fine for a review to be passive. The review is about the code, not the person who wrote it.

When the reviewer prescribes a solution, it requires the author to push back if they want to solve the issue differently. For example, if they noticed they could delete the variable rather than align it.

Though, I'm used to code reviews where the author and reviewer are both professionals and equals. I suppose if the author is an unknown person submitting a patch, you might want to rely less on their professional judgement.

Or just setup a linter and then you no longer have to babysit whitespace placement

Could it be the placement of the 'please' in the example? I always include a 'please' when making a request, but I've also had similar thoughts about the mid-sentence 'please' in the past.

If you put it at the end it reads (to me, at least!) more like a polite request:

"Could you align these variable definitions so they're easier to read please?"

Are you genuinely asking the person if they will? If not, then you should drop the question mark.

If it's an extremely common style in the code (something I think definitely should be done), I'd do:

nit: align variable definitions for better readability

If it's a suggestion or new style that I think we should adopt moving forward, I'd say:

Do you think we should align these variable definitions? I think it improves readability.

Then, ideally I'd leave a non-blocking task for them so they can either do it or not but it's not holding up submission whichever way it goes.

Also, I'd likely raise a ticket against a style guide or project-level autoformatter for that class of suggestion, otherwise it just adds noise to every PR.

In any situation that I would use "please" or "could you", I substitute in "what do you think of / about".

For example:

> "What do you think about changing these variable definitions so they're easier to read"?

This gives them a chance to reply and even disagree with what you're saying, because maybe your premise is actually misguided.

Yeah, I also get mildly insulted by the "please". I get that it has friendly intentions, but still... I feel "managed", and it also feels non negotiable.

I often go with "I would align these variable definitions so they’re easier to read", to indicate it's a suggestion, but in the end it's up to you.

Maybe we want the INTERCAL rule that some but not all statements should start with PLEASE.

And I like "Could you align these variable definitions so they’re easier to read?" better than "align these variable definitions so they’re easier to read.", or worse, "align these variable definitions".

This is why code review should be done in person if possible. There's too much confusion about what tone people intend to convey via text alone. Instead let's just have a conversation about it.

"could you please" reads a lot like "clean your shit up" whereas please without the preceding could you registers as polite to my eyes.

IMHO, the equivalence you propose is definitely not spelled out in the semantics of English so you really need to be reading a lot of sarcasm into the sentence to make that leap.

I believe that's what I said.

Whether frequent use of "please" comes across as condescending or polite seems to be a difference between BrE and AmE: https://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2012/08/sayi...

Agree. I'm not trying to do the reviewer a favor, nor are they asking one from me.

Even if it's some personal style thing, I don't perceive "Could you...?" as rude or anything.

If anything an exaggerated please could seem more insulting, as in "Could you please just do this simple thing ffs!?"

Part of functioning well in groups is understanding that not everyone shares your specific quirks - everyone has their own weird shit.

Of course, trying to accommodate everyone's unique perspective and behaviors would never scale, so instead we fabricate social norms that represent a sort of common denominator of human behavior. Part of these social norms are manners and polite behavior. These act as a sort of protocol for human interaction.

This all a long way of saying that even though you may think saying "please" is condescending or implies a favor, you are almost certainly in a vanishingly small minority and this will not serve you well socially.

I am trying to give you some insight into why you struggle with social interactions and often rub people the wrong way without intending to or even realizing it. My strong recommendation is you be polite even when you think you don't need to be.

Tolerance for and expectation of "please" can be cultural. OS code may receive contributions from global contributors.

Anecdotally, in my team which spans individuals from each continent except Africa and the poles, US english speakers are the least likely to use 'please', whereas our APAC (asia-pacific) contributors use it liberally.

Was i was trying to say was mainly that saying please implies that what is asked is more of a personal taste, and not an objective thing that really should be fixed.

If it's really something subjective I would say "This would be nicer if..." or "I think that could be changed to..." Instead of formulating some almost passive-aggressive request with "please".

or SE Asian team members who say "yes boss, sure" and then do nothing... and then you find they disagreed with the thing you proposed but there's no way in their culture that they can disagree with the boss, so they just say yes and do nothing. That one was fun to deal with ;)

Canadians will use it liberally along with thanks.

And sorry.