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Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by siliconunit on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:00AM (#19878405)
As far as anecdotes go, since I moved to London I noticed a sharp decrease in memory performance, heavy hair loss, and a general feeling of unhealthiness, developed a random persistent cough as well. The fact that you can always see a heavy haze even in short tube tunnels tells a lot on the air quality, the last underground cleaning train stopped working in the eighties...very unhealthy place to live/work in my opinion.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by jeffwass on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:53AM (#19878938)
I’ve lived in London the past decade and had problems with air pollution (got bronchitis a number of times in the last few years).

Just today my GP suggested getting an inhaler. And I just found out a guy I work with got an inhaler last week.

It’s insane how bad the air pollution is, estimated to cause 40k premature deaths each year.

Meanwhile the government hardly does anything (though see below). People feel it’s their divine right to drive old dirty diesel vehicles and how dare the government impose any restriction on this polluting behaviour.

Luckily London just set up the ULEZ (ultra low emission zone) in a small part of central London, making older dirty cars pay a fee if they enter. But they’re not extending the ULEZ to Greater London for another two and a half years. Or another 100k premature deaths.

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by jodrellblank on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:00PM (#19879032)
You could say the same thing about driving at all. People think it's their divine right to drive, even though driving at all reports 165,000 casualties of all levels in the UK, per year: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua...

And the government does nothing. Except speed bumps, which people complain about, mandatory car maintenance, which people complain about, traffic lights everywhere, which people complain about, speed cameras, which people complain about, regulate emissions, which people complain about.

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by 2Ccltvcm on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:26PM (#19879325)
The UK government permits new cars to be sold with tailpipe emissions which are VASTLY higher than those of comparable vehicles in the USA. The Dieselgate scandal never ended outside USA. It's just business as usual in Europe. The UK government is complicit in knowingly allowing manufacturers to sell extremely polluting diesels. The green initiatives in the UK are hilariously inadequate because so many brand new cars are diesels with extreme emissions levels compared to comparable cars sold in the United States. American market diesels do not pollute anywhere as much as UK market diesels.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by wcoenen on Friday May 10, 2019 @06:36PM (#19882912)
> The UK government permits new cars to be sold with tailpipe emissions which are VASTLY higher than those of comparable vehicles in the USA.

What I could find about the latest standards does not seem to support your claim. But maybe I'm looking at wrong numbers or misinterpreting them, so I wouldn't mind looking at your own sources if you have them.

EURO 6d standards for diesel passenger cars [1]:

- CO: 0.5 g/km

- NOx: 0.080 g/km

- PM: 0.0045 g/km

California LEV standards for passenger cars <50K miles/5 years [2]. (Not the same as EPA, but I assume California is more strict):

- CO: 3.4 g/mi = 2.1 g/km

- NOx: 0.2 g/mi = 0.12 g/km

- PM: 0.08 g/mi = 0.05 g/km

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

[2] https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_ca.php

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by cs02rm0 on Friday May 10, 2019 @05:47PM (#19882558)
Source?
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by deevolution on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:16PM (#19879205)
Hopefully non autonomous driving becomes illegal. Its a lethal weapon and we shouldnt be trusting humans with cars
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by distant_hat on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:34PM (#19879422)
But then you'd be trusting software developers with cars. What if a botnet of cars activates and tries to mow down everybody around?
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by nan0 on Friday May 10, 2019 @01:22PM (#19880029)
You must have read Seeker by Douglas E Richards :)
[dead]
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by jodrellblank on Friday May 10, 2019 @06:49PM (#19882996)
The people commenting kill themselves. The people driving kill and injure other people.

I don't know how widely reported it was outside the UK, but Prince Philip (Queen Elizabeth's husband) is 97. In January this year, he drove his car into a car with two women and a nine month old child in it. He was OK, the women required hospital treatment (but were not seriously injured).

"Prince Philip unhurt in crash" said the BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46912691 "Prince Philip will not be prosecuted [..] We have decided that it would not be in the public interest" said the Crown Prosecution Service. ( https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/14/prince-phili... ).

He voluntarily surrendered his driving license after that.

[dead]
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by veritas_veritad on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:26PM (#19879314)
false dichotomy- there exists a world in which cars are not the normal mode of transportation because everything you could possibly want is within walking distance and intra-city travel is something you do only occasionally.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by Tade0 on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:39PM (#19879487)
Does there though? I personally would be interested in living in a 1mln+ city that's 99%+ car free.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by veritas_veritad on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:55PM (#19881039)
would be or would not be- I'm confused by your statement
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by Tade0 on Friday May 10, 2019 @07:29PM (#19883238)
I wanted to say that while I would like to live in such a world, I can't think of an example.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by core-questions on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:27PM (#19880744)
I couldn't possibly want to leave the city, drive down a logging road, tour around, and enjoy my personal freedom, right? Why would anyone want that, when someone might possibly have a small chance of dying because of it?
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by veritas_veritad on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:55PM (#19881031)
it's not just the small chance of dying, though- it's the very real and cumulative effects of driving cars in general. We have laws around being able to pump raw sewage into rivers and lakes as well as laws around leaving depleted uranium anywhere remotely possible of causing harm (and even then it probably still isn't great)

You're welcome to leave the city via some means that doesn't pollute the atmosphere. Walk, bike, etc. It's really whiney of you to feel so incensed that you can't just do whatever TF you want because "mah freedoms" when those activities are contributing to a degradation of the livability of the planet.

Yes, we as a species have reached the point where there are things we _can_ do that we _ought not_ do. Sucks I guess?

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by jodrellblank on Friday May 10, 2019 @06:48PM (#19882989)
If you demand your personal freedom in that way, why do you live in a city at all? You can't park on a street at night and blare loud music, you can't shoot pigeons on the rooftops with a rifle, you can't fly a drone over people or around other's property without permission, and those won't even kill people.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by deevolution on Friday May 10, 2019 @01:14PM (#19879924)
A very small minority of elite cyber criminals, less than .000001% of the population will ever have the privilage to drive a vehicle manually in this future.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by felipemnoa on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:10PM (#19880569)
>>providing energy to our overlords

The Matrix AI robots do not really need humans to survive. They had a form of fusion. In reality the reason why they created the symbiotic relationship was as a kindness to their human supporters so that the human race would not go extinct.

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by artifice on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:57PM (#19881659)
The truth is that in the original imaginings of the plot to The Matrix, the artificial entities of the machine world had reversed the roles of interaction between humans and computers. It wasn't about energy at all, but about using human brains as a computational resource. They were farming the humans and enslaving them, because the machines occupied the antagonist role in the plot.

They were the villains. It's established in the animatrix set of short films, that the machines did not perceive themselves as villains, and this is a common characteristic that cuts across most tropes of villainy. During a monologue, a villain will often equivocate their motivation with that of the hero. (you and me? we're really the same...)

Focus groups and producers interfered with that aspect of the plot (the grid computer made of people, hence the name: The Matrix), and rewrote the story to depict the machines as using humans as an energy source, a power grid (changing puns and quips using, instead of computational terms, to energy references, such as "coppertop" and the like), which tested as a more accessible concept to the lowest common denominator in the target audience.

If you watch the supplemental material included with the trilogy boxed set, I think it's mentioned in either one of the commentaries or the documentaries and interview segments.

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by phkahler on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:04PM (#19881127)
For improved lung health I recommend daily magnesium (200mg+) and iodine (1mg+). Cured my asthma. No more inhalers!
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by SketchySeaBeast on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:39PM (#19881518)
Are you not worried about hypothydroism from the iodine?
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by jtuente on Friday May 10, 2019 @04:06PM (#19881719)
http://www.thyroid.org/iodine-deficiency/

This page indicates hypothyroidism is a result of iodine deficiency, rather than excess. Hyperthyroidism may be caused by excess iodine.

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by SketchySeaBeast on Friday May 10, 2019 @04:11PM (#19881759)
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/02/...

It can be both. Also, too much iodine can cause thyroid inflammation and cancer.

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iodine-Consumer/

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by asdff on Friday May 10, 2019 @04:56PM (#19882152)
Do you not eat salt?
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by SketchySeaBeast on Friday May 10, 2019 @05:01PM (#19882186)
There are 45 μg / gram of salt. That means if you consume the recommended amount (1.5-2.3 grams a day) you're getting 1/10 of the supplement dose indicated above. Even a famously salty big mac would get you 100 μg of iodine.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by dhfromkorea on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:44PM (#19879561)
The environmental externality must be internalized strongly and consistently throughout the "developed" and developing economies [1]. Participation from the two groups is a necessary condition for addressing the air pollution issue.

Meanwhile, the situation in London is similar in South Korea [2]. Most likely, worse: South Korean government is afraid of further regulating the domestic industry, when it should. Over the past decade or so, Chinese government has moved a lot of their factories to the East coast which faces SK in the West. Both SK and Chinese citizens must acknowledge this is a mutually-interested issue and take concrete steps to collaborate while minimizing finger pointing. I am convinced this is a tractable scientific and social/diplomatic problem. One proposal is to set up a joint government-backed venture/think tank that incrementally tackles this issue at a tech/policy level. Such a small step but no where near it...

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality

[2]: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/13/social-d...

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by meower on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:28AM (#19878663)
I think you get used to it after some time, and even get, how should I formulate that, "addicted"?

I live in a heavily polluted city -- a couple of chemical plants, a coal power station, and the central heating system burning a few (dozen) tons of coal every day to combat -40°C winters. A lot of my friends/acquaintances (in fact, most of them) have moved to other cities and many of them report having trouble adjusting to less polluted atmosphere: trouble sleeping (after moving within the same timezone), constant headaches, rashes, the list goes on.

Also, you hear a lot of stories of older people (third world definition of "older", i.e. around 60), never having a single complaint about their health, moving to cleaner cities and dying in a couple of weeks of strokes and cardiac arrest.

It sounds like old wive's tale, but not when you hear it for the twentieth time from the relatives of yet another person affected.

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by knolax on Friday May 10, 2019 @08:08PM (#19883474)
In my experience, pollution has been inversely correlated with outbreak of pollen allergies. However, that could just be caused by polluted environments simply having fewer trees.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by rincebrain on Saturday May 11, 2019 @12:24PM (#19886909)
Well, if you're exposed to higher concentrations of oxygen, you can have exciting amounts of stress getting used to the lower amounts again after, so the converse effect wouldn't be incredibly surprising.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by SketchySeaBeast on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:40AM (#19878786)
> sharp decrease in memory performance, heavy hair loss, and a general feeling of unhealthiness

Are you in your thirties?

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by knorthfield on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:41PM (#19879511)
Touché. Or should I say toupee?
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by hourislate on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:58PM (#19879723)
Have you thought about setting up a cheap 20x20 box fan with a HEPA filter in your home/apartment (California Wildfire Setup), air quality can be worse inside. It may be able to create an environment where you can recover a little everyday.

Here is a demonstration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A8Yink0czc

I myself run one in my home but just place the filter behind and against the fan allowing the airflow to keep it in place.

Works wonders and I can see a noticeable difference in air quality and sleep (allergens, odors, etc)

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by neilv on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:44PM (#19881546)
A 20x20 fan DIY was actually on my todo list. This is the first time I've seen a box with multiple filters on it, however -- all the ones I saw before just taped a single filter to the fan. Are the multiple filters a big practical improvement?

(I used to own an expensive air filter that was top-rated by Consumer Reports at the time, but sold it during a minimalism phase. Now I want to try a filter again, this pollen season, but more frugally.)

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by xiphias2 on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:03PM (#19880495)
I suggest you to move to other city / country as fast as possible. For me the same thing started in my late 20s, and now in my 30s all my life is about finding places where the air pollution is very low, as for my body it became impossible to detoxify even a small amount of air pollution. You're getting a chronic disease, and there's no way back for now.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by jvanderbot on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:43AM (#19878820)
I experienced patchy hair loss after moving to Los Angeles. This "childhood disease" does not run in my family, and I've never had it before. I'm 38 and moved here two years ago.

I have come to suspect systemic inflation from the rampant pollution in LA caused my new autoimmune disease, or at worst exacerbated a condition I never experienced symptoms of before.

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by schmookeeg on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:02PM (#19879054)
I lived in LA for 20 years (moved about 2 years ago -- hope I didn't sell you my condo!) -- and was right by LAX with a view of departing planes over the ocean, right from my balcony. Never had any health issues, still have all of my hair.

My mother was just diagnosed with dementia, and her mother had it before she died. Despite my "anecdata", I am keeping a close eye on these sort of findings, to see if my brain is going to go the same way. I've certainly had a higher pollution load in my life to date than either of them. :/

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by xiphias2 on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:07PM (#19880545)
Are you sure it's an autoimmune disease? For me when I went to uninhabited islands for example, the symptoms of my illness went away completely.

I believe the problem is that my body is not able to metabolize the toxic air molecules that gets to my bloodstream through my lungs.

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by jvanderbot on Friday May 10, 2019 @09:35PM (#19883921)
It was diagnosed autoimmune. I have pictures of white blood cells attacking my hair follicles.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by copperx on Friday May 10, 2019 @05:59PM (#19882659)
How do you go to an inhabited island for a prolonged period of time? Any anecdotes?
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by asdff on Friday May 10, 2019 @04:59PM (#19882178)
Where in LA do you live? LAX spews pollution due east all summer, and south all winter when the winds switch. The valleys get terrible pollution from agriculture as well.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by vram22 on Saturday May 11, 2019 @04:01PM (#19888095)
What kind of pollution from agriculture? Tractor / other farm machinery emissions? Burning agricultural waste like stubble, dry leaves/stalks, etc.?
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by Gibbon1 on Saturday May 11, 2019 @05:38PM (#19888533)
Personal data point. Used to be I had to cut my hair because of split ends. I stopped getting split ends when I moved out of San Jose.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by dsfyu404ed on Friday May 10, 2019 @01:17PM (#19879954)
You're sure it's not just stress from living in London?
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by arethuza on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:33AM (#19878718)
I remember once years ago coming into Heathrow on a flight and when the flight circled over central London there was a distinct brown layer of cloud - it looked disgusting!
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by howard941 on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:11PM (#19879157)
A feature of modern cities? As a child I'd very rarely join my father on his commute into Manhattan from southern Brooklyn. When the car topped a ridge about halfway there the island appeared to be perfectly capped by some futuristic but dirty thick brown dome.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by asdff on Friday May 10, 2019 @05:02PM (#19882197)
When you were a child environmental protections were not nearly what they are today
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by asdff on Friday May 10, 2019 @05:01PM (#19882188)
Fun fact: London fog doesn't exist. It's always been pollution, not a weather phenomenon.
Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by thaumasiotes on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:54PM (#19881634)
> since I moved to London I noticed a sharp decrease in memory performance, heavy hair loss, and a general feeling of unhealthiness, developed a random persistent cough as well.

I developed a persistent cough after moving from Shanghai to Santa Cruz, California, but it would be hard to blame that on air pollution.

And it turns out it was probably infection with Heliobacter Pylori.

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by mensetmanusman on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:42PM (#19880873)
I highly recommend watching The Crown episode on the London Fog. It is amazing to hear the story of London pollution.

I use a 3M room filter for white noise generation for my kids. Has worked very well for 7 years! (I believe I got asthma growing up around dust).

Re:Air Pollution Seems to Cause Dementia by dajohnson89 on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:43PM (#19880893)
i wonder how nyc pollution compares.