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Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by nkurz on Sunday May 05, 2019 @09:44AM (#19832765)
The answer (excerpted from the linked article):

  The source of the problem was a homemade battery-operated   
  device designed by a local resident to alert him if someone 
  was upstairs when he was working in his basement. It did so 
  by turning off a light.

  “He has a fascination with electronics,” Mr. Glassburn said, 
  adding that the resident has special needs and would not be 
  identified to protect his privacy.

  The inventor and other residents of his home had no idea 
  that the device was wreaking havoc on the neighborhood, he 
  said, until Mr. Glassburn and a volunteer with expertise in 
  radio frequencies knocked on the door.

  “The way he designed it, it was persistently putting out a 
  315 megahertz signal,” Mr. Glassburn said. That is the 
  frequency many car fobs and garage door openers rely on.

  “There was no malicious intent of the device,” he said in a 
  statement.

  The battery on the device was removed and the signal 
  stopped. “It was a relief,” Mr. Glassburn said.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by epanchin on Sunday May 05, 2019 @10:11AM (#19832886)
Without verbatim:

The source of the problem was a homemade battery-operated device designed by a local resident to alert him if someone was upstairs when he was working in his basement. It did so by turning off a light.

“He has a fascination with electronics,” Mr. Glassburn said, adding that the resident has special needs and would not be identified to protect his privacy.

The inventor and other residents of his home had no idea that the device was wreaking havoc on the neighborhood, he said, until Mr. Glassburn and a volunteer with expertise in radio frequencies knocked on the door.

“The way he designed it, it was persistently putting out a 315 megahertz signal,” Mr. Glassburn said. That is the frequency many car fobs and garage door openers rely on.

“There was no malicious intent of the device,” he said in a statement.

The battery on the device was removed and the signal stopped. “It was a relief,” Mr. Glassburn said.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by stcredzero on Sunday May 05, 2019 @02:38PM (#19834241)
We're getting to the point where simple devices without the full range of security capabilities just aren't tenable anymore. Wireless devices should be securely keyed. The protocols cannot expose the key. They should be immune to replay attacks and eavesdropping. They should also be immune to simple jamming.

It's like how people in the country in most cases can have a wood fire, and it's no problem. Get to the population density of the city, and backyard wood fires become the major source of particulate air pollution. It's like how in the early days of electricity, there were to GFCI safety devices and everything was just bare conductors on ceramic insulators nailed into wood. We're not in those days anymore.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by morpheuskafka on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:34PM (#19833581)
He's lucky a local ham investigated and not the FCC.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by martimarkov on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:48PM (#19833651)
I think if it's a free frequency you can do whatever you want, no? I mean I use 433Mhz in my house to do some communications between devices and I think I don't need any authorization from someone.

Or is it the power that is limited? (Which makes a lot of sense)

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by morpheuskafka on Sunday May 05, 2019 @01:07PM (#19833739)
Part 15 (unlicensed frequencies used for communication) still has rules. There is a hobby exemption for up to five devices--however, that is an exemption to the testing requirements, not the rules themselves--and you are still required to use "good engineering practice" like not designing it to have the transmitter run continuously. There are also pre-certified modules available for things like wifi, zigbee, xbee, etc.

There is almost always a power limit, and there are often spread spectrum, usage type, antenna directionality, and other requirements. Additionally, licensed users need For 433 MHz in the US, you have two allowed usage rules: 47 C.F.R. 15.240 [0] and 47 C.F.R. 15.231 [1]. The former is for transportation use only. The latter is what car remotes use, and your usage probably falls under that as well. Among other requirements, you can transmit for no more than 5 seconds--unless they are signalling an emergency alarm condition. If you don't follow either part there is a very minimal power output that is generally not useful for wireless data transmission.

[0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.240 [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.231

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by krapht on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:59PM (#19833700)
Even if part of the spectrum is unlicensed, you're still bound by power limits.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by wglb on Sunday May 05, 2019 @02:25PM (#19834161)
And lack of interference to other services
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by JeffGruszynski on Sunday May 05, 2019 @03:07PM (#19834394)
Nope.

If it's an FCC class B, YOU must accept interference from otherwise approved class B compliant devices. Class B is a very low threshold for that. Mostly it's power limits and not much else.

Key fobs, if you look at the fine print, are Class B.

There are also exemptions for certain experimental or lab devices though you can't break power limits with those as narrowly defined by regulation.

But if you happen to have your Class B device too close such a device, that's entirely your problem, the user of the Class B device.

This is a common issue with ham radio: they actually are allowed to interfere with Class B but it's a political decision that drives most of ham radio to "play nice". Legally they have seniority when it comes to interference and the law when it comes to Class B devices. Basically you are screwed with Class B in most cases with little legal recourse.

And Class B is such a low threshold that 99% of the time such interference is actually due to bad design or use of cheap components in the Class B device itself. In this case, the fobs. Same goes for TVs, broadcast radio receivers, etc.

No one has a right to zero interference from other RF sources for the most part! Mostly because it's physically impossible to assure or deliver! There's merely a regulatory threshold for the extremely bad and summarily interfering levels of RF power.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by wglb on Wednesday May 08, 2019 @11:07AM (#19859512)
Putting out a square-wave 315mhz signal can be very broad and hit other non-Class B devices.

Regardless of class, spurious emissions are not permitted.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by fegu on Sunday May 05, 2019 @01:04PM (#19833722)
And duty cycle limits.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by miketery on Sunday May 05, 2019 @03:25PM (#19834483)
There are several limitations for 433Mhz.

If i remember correctly the main two are: - Power limits - Transmission length per interval of time (I believe max 300ms in any 10s window)

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by jvanderbot on Sunday May 05, 2019 @01:31PM (#19833852)
I think this land isn't owned so I can dump anything I want on it, right?
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by erk__ on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:12PM (#19833476)
I really hope that someone who knows more about electronics could help the guy to get a better understanding of what he did wrong and how he could do it in a better way.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by argd678 on Sunday May 05, 2019 @10:03AM (#19832844)
Would be interesting to get a better understanding of how it worked. I’m assuming there was a motion sensor upstairs, though I don’t understand why it would send a constant signal.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by jjoonathan on Sunday May 05, 2019 @10:33AM (#19832987)
This is probably how it worked: https://www.rtl-sdr.com/transmitting-fm-am-ssb-sstv-and-fsq-....

and how it also had unintended consequences. Note how many comments there are from people who don't seem to have understood the disclaimer. I'd bet our rogue dongle-jammer was in much the same boat :)

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by argd678 on Sunday May 05, 2019 @11:13AM (#19833196)
I see, so it was constantly broadcasting and then he’d encode some message in the signal to indicate if someone was up stairs, instead of only broadcasting when there was a message to send. That certainly would explain it.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by jjoonathan on Sunday May 05, 2019 @11:34AM (#19833299)
That certainly exacerbated it, but arguably it's not even the worst RF sin being committed here. The other is spurious emissions. Toggling a GPIO at frequency f doesn't just result in frequency f, it also results in 3f, 5f, 7f, and so on because the GPIO is outputting a square wave not a sine wave. That's the best case. Unreliable timing could turn that from a frequency "comb" into a forest of spurs across the RF spectrum, and whichever spurs make it out of an antenna are going to break the law (best case) or interfere with important RF devices (worst case).
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by sigmar on Sunday May 05, 2019 @10:59AM (#19833124)
You're probably right that they used a guide like that. It seems irresponsible to publish that blog post. 99% of Pi tinkerers will read that disclaimer in the third paragraph and either not understand that life critical devices _do_ can be interfered with or think their use-case is special/low-powered and won't do any harm.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by riskable on Sunday May 05, 2019 @11:39AM (#19833316)
The irresponsible part is that he says you "must use a filter" if you attach an antenna but does not describe what that would entail. There's not even a link anywhere that would describe how to make a filter or even what he's talking about ("I have a filter... There's no bad power going into this thing!")

When you, "make something dangerous easy" you have a responsibility to be very specific in how to use your invention safely. Otherwise disaster seems inevitable.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by maxerickson on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:07PM (#19833461)
You can buy razor blades almost everywhere for like a dollar.

(Reviewing this comment later I see it can be read in sort of a nasty way; my meaning was that we don't really assign blame to providers of dangerous tools, the low price of razor blades reflects this)

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by ourlordcaffeine on Sunday May 05, 2019 @11:25AM (#19833249)
So they are generating a signal by toggling the IO pin on and off. Not only will there be a huge amount of harmonics, wouldn't processor interrupts wreak havoc on the output signal and cause even more interference?
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by myself248 on Sunday May 05, 2019 @11:53AM (#19833396)
Yes and no; if they're doing it right, they're using the DMA or PLL engine which runs independent of the main CPU/ALU. See https://github.com/F5OEO/PiFmRds "This version modulates the PLL instead of the clock divider for superior signal purity. The harmonics are unaffected, so the legal warning still applies."

Filtering this stuff isn't hard, but I'm realizing there aren't any good stone-simple tutorials for it. Might have to write one.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by FeepingCreature on Sunday May 05, 2019 @02:34PM (#19834217)
I've done a hobby project where I'm using pure RPi GPIO to drive a servo motor with PWM, so processor interrupts would ruin my day. So I can tell you that the rate at which modern Linux interrupts a running application is massively overstated. If your system is configured right, that happens maybe two or three times a second at most.

If you're running on a dedicated core, as you should, 99% of the time your application just happily runs along.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by tknkx on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:19PM (#19833512)
Can someone explain to me why generating a square wave creates lots of harmonics, as opposed to other kinds of waves?
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by gmueckl on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:35PM (#19833588)
The spectrum of a signal is its Fourier transform. Only sine and cosine signals have a "pure" signal with a single frequency. Anything else decomposes into a whole host of spectral contributions. Square waves are especially bad because they require contributions from infinitely many harmonics to produce the steep flanks. That is also why a clean square wave cannot exist: some kind of band limit is always present, resulting in ringing around the flanks.

See also Fourier Analysis on the Wikipedia article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_wave

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by GoToRO on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:49PM (#19833663)
Because you try to generate a square wave by adding toghether "round" waves (sinusoidal). In order to get into the "corners" you must add "round" waves with smaller and smaller diameters (period). Small periods means high frequencies. The more waves you add, the squarer the sum becomes.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by davidgay on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:27PM (#19833556)
A square wave IS the base frequency plus ALL[1] the odd harmonics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_wave#Fourier_analysis explains it better than I could).

[1]: Yes, so in reality you neither get an infinite set of harmonics, nor a perfect square wave.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by sokoloff on Sunday May 05, 2019 @10:10AM (#19832883)
There's a good chance the relevant code was running inside loop() in an Arduino sketch and "whohoo; it works!" represented the end of development on the project.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by amingilani on Sunday May 05, 2019 @10:33AM (#19832984)
I'm assuming he also didn't account for harmonics. It'd be interesting to see how dirty his transmissions made the spectrum.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by sokoloff on Sunday May 05, 2019 @11:10AM (#19833180)
Given that he took out 315MHz in a pretty wide area, I'm wagering he was using a specific 315MHz module and was just transmitting a near-constant signal. (A duty cycle issue rather than a harmonics issue.)

Something like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW315mhz-rf-Transmitter-and...

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by riskable on Sunday May 05, 2019 @11:27AM (#19833260)
Also don't rule out an incredibly poorly made 315Mhz transmitter. Chinese companies will see lots of bad reviews on their 315Mhz breakout board like, "Terrible product! Only works from within like 3 feet from the transmitter."

So management gets mad at the engineer (who likely has no formal training or knowledge of FCC regulations) and says, "fix it!"

"OK OK I'll just crank up the power!"

Version 1.1 of the board is released on AliExpress a week later ("New version of board. We fixed weak signal!").

End users start getting the new board and like magic they can pick up a signal from like a mile away!

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by Cyph0n on Sunday May 05, 2019 @11:47AM (#19833365)
Then the FCC comes knocking?
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by colejohnson66 on Sunday May 05, 2019 @11:49AM (#19833377)
FCC can’t really do anything about a Chinese person selling from China
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by azhenley on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:04PM (#19833446)
They can if someone is importing it.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by ajuc on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:07PM (#19833459)
Most hobbyst (at least where I live) order directly from China on ebay or aliexpress. It's cheapest this way.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by Freak_NL on Sunday May 05, 2019 @02:05PM (#19834059)
Customs services worldwide probably won't even come close to inspecting even 1% of that unending stream of tiny plastic envelopes containing some sort of electronics heading for thousands of local hobbyists. It's a logistical impossibility.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by ajuc on Sunday May 05, 2019 @03:30PM (#19834511)
They could blacklist everything and only pass-through stuff sent by trusted exporters I guess. Check 1% of the packages, if some exporter lied revoke his trusted status.

But I highly doubt they will do it :)

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by amingilani on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:17PM (#19833506)
That's what I do it almost all my equipment (not US, though)
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by morpheuskafka on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:35PM (#19833589)
They can send a BOLO to CBP and have the devices seized on import.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by myself248 on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:48PM (#19833649)
HAHAHahahahaa.

An entire bucket of Chinese electronic components in my living room begs to disagree.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by sokoloff on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:50PM (#19833664)
Modules and components do not need FCC certification to be imported. CBP isn't going to do anything.

Finished goods need FCC certification to be sold.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by cptskippy on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:41PM (#19833607)
Why do you assume there was a microprocessor involved at all? Most PIR sensors come as modules that operate either with a normally open or normally closed trigger pin and a couple of pots for adjusting sensitivity and trigger duration.

It would be easy to build a transmitter to blast out a constant high pulse and then just cut it off using a transistor or mosfet hooked up to the trigger on the PIR.

Simple circuit with no microprocessor or coding required.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by SmellyGeekBoy on Sunday May 05, 2019 @10:26AM (#19832941)
Like all the best projects.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by colanderman on Sunday May 05, 2019 @11:06AM (#19833167)
FYI: quoting material like that is impossible to read on mobile because it does not wrap. Please just use ">" as an quotation marker.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by WillPostForFood on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:17PM (#19833501)
FYI: quoting material like that is impossible to read on mobile because it does not wrap. Please just use ">" as an quotation marker.

or wrap it in * to italicize

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by giancarlostoro on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:32PM (#19833569)
I kinda wish HN could fix that... We hear this all the time and yet its still broken. They add other things to HN but a subtle bug fix would be welcomed.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by nkurz on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:04PM (#19833447)
I'm aware, and consciously chose this because in this case I thought that preformatted was clearer. But perhaps I'm wrong. What percentage of people use mobile for HN? Is there a reasonable column width that works for 95% of them?

Edit: OK, I just looked at it on a phone. Yes, it looks bad, and that the lines would have to be about half the length to be readable. Too late to edit this one, but I'll try to switch to italics or '>' in the future for everything except for code samples.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by Normal_gaussian on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:09PM (#19833464)
I get 26 characters portrait, 40 landscape.

I almost exclusively read HN on mobile, occasionally emailing things to myself to do on a desktop/laptop later.

Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by giancarlostoro on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:33PM (#19833576)
On the other hand reader mode for FireFox temporarily fixes the bug.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by mikeash on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:06PM (#19833456)
I’d wager it’s a pretty high percentage. HN works great on mobile aside from this. There’s no reasonable column width, just use quotes for quotes.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by hunter2_ on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:10PM (#19833467)
Hard-wrapping to some column width only ever really works when you know the physical width of the screen/paper. Otherwise, dynamic soft wrapping.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by hollerith on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:10PM (#19833470)
I hate preformatted text in HN comments (and I never even read HN on mobile).
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by mrb on Sunday May 05, 2019 @01:13PM (#19833769)
It's possible to read on mobile. It may not wrap but you can scroll it horizontally (Chrome on Android)
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by spinach on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:34PM (#19833586)
Not "impossible", you just have to scroll horizontally (I read it on my mobile device).
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by wheaties on Sunday May 05, 2019 @12:55PM (#19833682)
If you have ever wondered why they tell you to turn off electronic devices during take off and landing, here it is.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by buttcoinslol on Sunday May 05, 2019 @10:11AM (#19832885)
Wireless activation for this is overkill, you could build this with some romex, a PIR sensor, a relay, a single-pole switch, and a light fixture for around $50, $75 if you don't have a fish stick to fish the romex through the walls.
Re:Mystery Frequency Disrupted Car Fobs in an Ohio City, and... by Dylan16807 on Sunday May 05, 2019 @10:30AM (#19832960)
Or I could hook the same sensor and relay up to a pair of $5 transceivers.

Avoiding going into the wall isn't overkill, especially if it's cheaper and faster.