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Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by stunt on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @02:06AM (#19308664)
There are many examples of Apple never admitting design issues!

Beside what they are doing with their reputation and customers loyalty, I’m wondering how is it going to affect their engineering culture within the company itself.

They are very biased with their strategies in everything and they hardly change them. Same situation Microsoft was in some years ago.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by vardump on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @02:40AM (#19308848)
I don't know about others, but I don't dare to buy Apple products anymore. My 2012 MacBook Pro is still going strong, but newer MacBooks don't have anywhere near the same build quality and durability.

When you have an issue, and complain about it or even ask advice what to do, I've often encountered toxic behavior from Apple fans. Denying the problem's existence and such.

The problem is of course what to heck to buy. MacBooks do have nice features, like fast wakeup and an excellent touchpad, that I still haven't seen matched in the "Windows" laptop camp.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by MarHoff on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @05:49AM (#19309677)
The thing is I have the "hellishly flawed MBP 2016", I carry it daily into my messenger bag over bike/train/feet (often running to catch train) in a separate pocket but without other protection. It fell on the floor once from table height with lid open and ended up with a very small scratch on the corner but totally ok otherwise (and it was totally my fault).

Everything is perfectible but to say it's not a good and resilient design as compared to other laptops is just non-sense. Nothing is 100% fail-proof we must be realistic.

I had issues with apple products, but nothing so bad that a visit at a genius bar couldn't solve in a reasonable manner. Yet I will loose trust the day they let me down in an intolerable way, but surely not based on hearsay's from the web.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by nickflood on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @06:31AM (#19309825)
I've got a couple of friends who are Apple fans - iPhone, iPad, MacBook, Apple Watch, full loadout. Once the time came to upgrade their MacBook Airs the question was whether to go with a Windows laptop to avoid keyboard issues, or risk it. Both decided to risk it, being Apple fans. And cause we don't know how big of a percentage of people are affected by the keyboard issues. I advised them to go with Apple. They got a 13" 2017 MBP and a 15" 2018 MBP. Now the 2017 MBP had only one keyboard failure which was fixed free of charge. The 2018 on the other hand had two keyboard failures (broken key and several keys permanently pressed), and shortly after the second keyboard failure the laptop stopped turning on.

My point is, when buying those laptops, you do take a risk on whether your use case and your individual unit is going to experience issues. This was all hypothetical to me as well, until my friends paid their money to find out whether it was real or not.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by Twisell on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @12:25PM (#19312199)
Except that if it's a 2018 model they didn't actually paid money, it was take free of charge under one year worldwide guarantee even without an AppleCare Plan. And unless they very recently changed policy after the second failure on a recent machine you can usually bargain an instant switch with a refurbished anew unit.
Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by busterarm on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @03:57AM (#19309189)
> I don't know about others, but I don't dare to buy Apple products anymore. My 2012 MacBook Pro is still going strong, but newer MacBooks don't have anywhere near the same build quality and durability.

Apple's history of design issues and ignoring them goes all the way back to the Powerbook G3 and G4 Cube. This isn't some sudden drop in quality. People just have short memories.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by isoskeles on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:02AM (#19309206)
I got a Dell XPS 13 last year and the touchpad is great. I use it both on Windows and Ubuntu.

I also remember having a Toshiba something-or-other 10 years ago and hating the touchpad in comparison to a Mac. So, just saying, I've seen how bad it can be. The XPS has given me no issues aside from having to make sure I change the click behavior (tap to click really annoys me).

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by oneeyedpigeon on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:32AM (#19309326)
Does tap-to-click really get in the way if you turn it on but don't want to use it? Are you 'tapping' as your finger comes down onto the trackpad to move? That action should be detected and ignored, IMO. I'm only saying this as a tap-to-click user. I can't stand using someone's keyboard if they've turned it off — there I am, tapping away, looking like an idiot ...
Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by amanaplanacanal on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @11:09AM (#19311435)
I find that I graze the touchpad with my thumb or palm while I'm typing. I always turn it off on my laptops.
Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by tkxxx7 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @11:54AM (#19311894)
This is another reason I don't want to leave Apple - they are far and away the best at detecting mis-taps.
Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by marmaduke on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:13AM (#19309249)
I just got a precision 5530, an xps 15 clone. The touchpad is pretty good, but it takes some getting used to coming from a MacBook pro 15.
Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by setquk on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @02:51AM (#19308911)
Wise choice. I bought a 2018 MBA with a “fixed butterfly keyboard”. Keyboard was useless after two weeks so it went back.

Back on the thinkpad now.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by Hengjie on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @03:37AM (#19309097)
Same issue, keyboard on 2018 had issues. Key broke and Apple deemed it "accidental damage" because of my efforts to clean the key following their support article.
Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by setquk on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:29AM (#19309312)
Assholes. I would have just chargebacked the damn thing if they pulled that shit on me.

Edit: this sort of denialism makes me feel dirty owning an iphone.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by ioulian on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @03:18AM (#19309014)
I too was wondering how to "replace" my MacBook Pro, (I have one from work, but I want one machine to do my work on it). I've gone with Microsoft Surface Book 2 (13 inch) and I must say, if you can live with Windows, this is a good alternative:

The touchpad is nice (except from right clicking with 2 fingers, but I think you can change it with software), the hardware is beautifully made, battery lasts 12 hours (maybe around 8-10 with normal usage) and you get in a windows tablet too.

My only problem was the pricetag, 2.6k is kinda a lot, for the specs that aren't the best you can get, but it's good for development work, I can also play some games on it and use photo editing tools.

This was the only windows laptop that I really liked, (my previous was a thinkpad from 8 years ago).

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by marmaduke on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:13AM (#19309253)
the dell xps machines are quite nice and higher spec'ed than the surface stuff
Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by doomlaser on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @03:54AM (#19309174)
Razor makes nice high end PC laptops -- I like mine, anyway. Plus, they actually ship with nice zippy internal graphics cards
Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by andr on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @02:53AM (#19308920)
On the flipside, Apple has a lot more data on what components fail than we do. They can detect issues before they become a "-gate" and I imagine slight improvements like this one happen fairly often. Which, I'd say, is a good engineering practice and culture.
Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by 2muchcoffeeman on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @03:21AM (#19309028)
Or they could just use standard parts and make their machines more repairable.

I recently upgraded my MacMini Server 2012 with max ram and SSDs. My Air is still going strong, so this may be the last time I get a Mac. Which is too bad. Their older machines were really really nice. The new ones are kinda shit.

Had they just kept releasing the same models with upgraded specs and none of the crazy price increases and improvements we’d all be upgrading. I don’t even mind the soldered in stuff if the machine was reliable. I use and Air. Now their keyboards don’t even work.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by 9935c101ab17a66 on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @05:25AM (#19309580)
What exactly is a "standard" part in high-end portable computer manufacturing?
Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by nickflood on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @06:44AM (#19309875)
An M.2 SSD, like a Samsung 970 Pro. Or a SODIMM RAM stick. Or an M.2 Wi-Fi adapter.

While you're at it you can also screw the battery in instead of gluing it in place. Or screw the keyboard in instead of riveting it in place.

All of this is a reality in my Dell XPS 15. Keyboard is screwed in with 20-something tiny screws, it's firmly in place and it makes keyboard replacement a $20 affair that you can even do yourself should a bad day happen when you bump your drink onto it. The battery can be freshened up as well should you keep your laptop for more than a couple of years while using it daily, and it costs $80. Should your laptop fail completely you can salvage the data from it just by plugging the drive into another laptop or desktop (Apple removed a "lifeboat" connector from their 2018 MBP for example, not much was occupying its space though), you can upgrade the RAM fad down the line if your use case changer or OS becomes more demanding. Etc.

This is already possible and is happening right now, so Apple doing the Apple thing is not excusable by their laptops being thin or light, or portable or whatever.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @03:41AM (#19309118)
If Apple cared enough about detecting issues before a "-gate" happens, then "-gate"s would hardly ever happen.

"We'll fix it in a later iteration, possibly" isn't a credible attitude from a company whose prices are already wildly inflated and hard to justify.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by lbill on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:29AM (#19309315)
I don't mind the "-gates" : issues are bound to arise. The only way to avoid "-gates" is to stop producing and selling anything at all. Modifying a manufacturing process to correct a flaw is not always easy and can take some time, so I understand the "We'll fix it in a later iteration" stance.

I think the real issue here is the failure of Apple to acknowledge the technical flaw. That, and the the poor customer service. If it's a design issue, it should be covered in the warranty : it would be costly on a short term perspective, but in this specific case I think it would be worth it, as it would keep customers happy with the brand.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by ksec on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @04:54AM (#19309439)
They will have the Data when it was actually repaired by their Store. Notice How most of the Street Laptop Repair Store advertise with Apple repair? There is a whole Apple 2nd Hand, Repair economy out there. If they have an 3% repair rate on Apple Store, you can bet it is at least double that amount on total repair outside of Apple.

Which is one of the Key Point of Genius Bar, these front line Genius were suppose to Report back all sort of problems with their Product so the design team would know. Steve make sure this so they can services their customer better. Look at the Genius Bar now.

Re:Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, With... by rasz on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @06:21AM (#19309792)
improvements like shimming known weak BGA solder joint with a piece of shoe rubber https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaGHcBZjmWA

also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8