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Re:We Need Chrome No More by perlgeek on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @11:54AM (#19264547)
> Chrome's appeal was primarily technical. Each tab got its own process and could crash without taking down the entire browser.

Curious, I remember speed being the primary reason. Google invented V8 (the javascript engine), with some pretty decent optimizations and a well-working JIT on i386/amd64 platforms. At the time when chromium came out, it handled some JS-heavy applications very nicely that Firefox struggled with.

There seems to be a bloat cycle with many products, browsers being one of them. They start off lean, gain features over time, and then they are or feel so heavy that a lean new competitor can feel like a fresh breeze.

Remember when Firefox was the fresh breeze, compared to the Netscape suite? I remember Chrome being perceived the same way when it came out.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by VBprogrammer on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:13PM (#19265471)
I'm surprised there aren't more people on here who moved to chome for the dev tools. That is what moved me over there. Firebug was great in it's day but at some point Chrome's dev tools just became too much better to make staying on Firefox possible.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by kaiby on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:24PM (#19265586)
Firebug was awesome, then 2011 happened and Firebug’s lead dev joined the Google Chrome team to work on their dev tools [1].

[1] https://news.softpedia.com/news/Lead-Firebug-Developer-Joins...

Re:We Need Chrome No More by yesco on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:46PM (#19265806)
Even to this day Firefox doesn't have websocket frame inspection. Its very frustrating to me that dev tools aren't a higher priority for Firefox. As they are now, they are only slightly worse than Chromes which is unacceptable considering more and more websites are being developed with only Chrome in mind.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by Vinnl on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @02:09PM (#19265983)
That is frustrating, but the good news is that this is being picked up as part of (somewhat ironically) Google Summer of Code: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=885508#c49
Re:We Need Chrome No More by yesco on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @02:45PM (#19266317)
I find it ironic that they kept lowering the priority since an extension already added the ability, yet that very same extension no longer works thanks to their recent API changes. Perhaps lowering the priority several times wasn't that best idea after all?
Re:We Need Chrome No More by Laforet on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @02:50PM (#19266360)
The decision to revamp their extensions API also cost a lot of goodwill from the community. FF today may be faster and more secure than two years ago, but from my perspective it has permanently lost some of its utility and appeal.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by bad_user on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @06:17PM (#19267791)
As a long time Firefox user I think the change in its extensions APIs is one of the greatest moves they did and I’m glad they did it.

Chrome’s extensions were isolated, easy to develop and had a permissions system in place.

To this day Firefox is still lagging behind in its isolation. For example Chrome can disable extensions in Incognito, but Firefox does not.

Also if you’re not paying attention, Chrome won and it’s nearly a monopoly. This means browser extensions get developed for Chrome first. Having similar APIs helps with migration.

I view the change as a good thing because I can finally develop my own extensions without headaches.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by Vinnl on Thursday February 28, 2019 @03:37AM (#19269931)
> To this day Firefox is still lagging behind in its isolation.

That is being worked on though:

> The first batch of changes to not run extensions in private browsing mode by default landed, this is still behind a preference.

https://blog.nightly.mozilla.org/2019/01/31/these-weeks-in-f...

Re:We Need Chrome No More by bad_user on Friday March 01, 2019 @03:45AM (#19278882)
That's very good news.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by gspetr on Friday March 01, 2019 @03:12AM (#19278745)
Extensions are profile-specific.

Solution: change profile to launch another browser instance without extensions.

Go to "about:profiles" in the address bar, or configure shortcuts in your OS to launch browser with different profiles: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Mul...

Re:We Need Chrome No More by fiddlerwoaroof on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @11:13PM (#19268907)
Isolation isn’t a benefit for extensions: the whole point of extensions, bookmarklets, etc. is to be able to modify arbitrary aspects of the browsing experience in arbitrary ways.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by Wowfunhappy on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @11:19PM (#19268921)
It's a balance, right? If browser extensions had kernel access, I think we'd all agree that's bad. Now, that's obviously an extreme, but where is the line?

Up until recently†, I'm not aware of a situation where a popular Firefox extension was unable to work in Chrome due to Google restrictions.

†I'm purposefully excluding the whole adblock thing, as that's super recent and thus not relevant here.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by leshow on Thursday February 28, 2019 @08:14AM (#19271091)
Playing devil's advocate, many firefox extensions don't work as well or at all as they used to. tree style tabs can't integrate in the same way without extra modification, all of the FF extensions that allowed you to control your browser with vim bindings no longer work.

I actually still think the API design was a good idea and am glad for the added security. Still, the API change took down some popular extensions for sure.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by MrStonedOne on Thursday February 28, 2019 @12:04AM (#19269063)
But it's not about the popular extensions.

Now there is no more middle click to submit on forms and I used that at my old job to speed up a bunch of tedious tasks.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by ZeikJT on Tuesday March 05, 2019 @10:18AM (#19311026)
That sounds trivial to implement in an extension at least. If there isn't one already I could probably take a crack at it.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by TeMPOraL on Thursday February 28, 2019 @03:09AM (#19269824)
> It's a balance, right? If browser extensions had kernel access, I think we'd all agree that's bad. Now, that's obviously an extreme, but where is the line?

It is, and it boils down to the usual security vs. utility tradeoff - beyond some point, more secure means less useful. Kernel access is a stretch, but then again, I could make my computing experience much more pleasant if I had a deeper ability to control and inspect the browser from external software running on my computer.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by bad_user on Thursday February 28, 2019 @02:32AM (#19269659)
I don’t know about you, but I don’t trust all the extensions that I want to use.

Especially in Private/Incognito Mode I only want extensions for blocking ads/trackers + 1Password and that’s it.

Also being able to see what the extension does is really valuable to me, because allowing an extension to read the data on all websites you visit is really suspicious for a majority of extensions.

Mozilla has had a good review process in place and truth be told Chrome's Web Store has suffered from spyware and malicious extensions more than Firefox. But that's only because it is more popular and Google is known for really screwed / non-existent human support (e.g. extensions being reported as being malware with no immediate action).

Re:We Need Chrome No More by TeMPOraL on Thursday February 28, 2019 @03:16AM (#19269855)
> I don’t know about you, but I don’t trust all the extensions that I want to use.

That's fair, but this dynamic drags down usefulness of the whole platform. Browsers could offer extended permissions allowing extensions arbitrary control over the browsing experience, but they can't trust extension authors not to get greedy about privileges, and can't trust regular users to be smart about it. It's what happened with Android: applications requested every possible permission, users learned to just accept it.

> Also being able to see what the extension does is really valuable to me, because allowing an extension to read the data on all websites you visit is really suspicious for a majority of extensions.

That's true, and I wish there was an easy way to transparently run a I/O trace on an extension, and to have super-fine-grained user-level control over its permissions. I use a bunch of extensions that modify the contents of sites; I wish I could manually restrict them to a whitelist - and sometimes blacklist. Like, e.g. I don't need Cloud2Butt to work on my banking site.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by JohnFen on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @06:39PM (#19267918)
> As a long time Firefox user I think the change in its extensions APIs is one of the greatest moves they did and I’m glad they did it.

Not me. If the new extension system didn't present a loss of important (to me) functionality, then I'd think it was a good thing.

But the loss of functionality happened, and that change is what makes the new Firefox unsuitable for me, so I stopped using it (and I never used Chrome).

Re:We Need Chrome No More by AsyncAwait on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @04:26PM (#19267099)
It could never deploy multi-process with XUL cruft. Then the argument would be that Firefox is too far behind. You can never win everybody.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by gnomewascool on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @06:23PM (#19267823)
"e10s compatible" add-ons were as fully-featured as the "original" XUL add-ons and did not interfere with multi-process at all. For instance, VimFx was e10s compatible and could even run with Firefox Nightly (which allowed "legacy" add-ons), without disabling multi-process, until about Firefox 65(!), without major changes.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by kevin_thibedeau on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @05:27PM (#19267513)
Taking away XUL is not the problem. Leaving users with a crippled replacement is.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by chrisweekly on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @04:00PM (#19266886)
Yes. DevTools's superiority was the catalyst for me (and many other devs I worked with at the time).
Re:We Need Chrome No More by dandigangi on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @08:26PM (#19268317)
Same here. Firebug started to feel "limited" to what I could do in DevTools and they finally got me to switch. I honestly feel like I need to get Firefox another shot since Chrome's perf tools are heavily focused around the V8 engine. (Even though there is a lot of cross over with general JS perf)
Re:We Need Chrome No More by gwbas1c on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @02:48PM (#19266345)
Back when Chrome was new, I'd occasionally open Firefox for the debugging tools.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by ilikehurdles on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @08:52PM (#19268422)
When I was a QA I’d use Firefox’s network inspector to edit and replay network requests easily, changing different parameters while being in an environment that stores all the necessary auth and cookies to use the APIs. I’ve had a lot of fun with that trying to reverse engineer websites without too much effort. Chrome still doesn’t do that.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by Aser on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @02:06PM (#19265966)
I'm not a professional web developer, but in the experience I've had building a couple of JS heavy sites, I've actually found the Edge developer tools to be the best. If there's one thing microsoft knows how to do well, it's build developer tools.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by groestl on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @02:21PM (#19266103)
> If there's one thing microsoft knows how to do well, it's build developer tools.

This is probably very subjective, but I can absolutely not relate to that.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by davnicwil on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @06:23PM (#19267827)
Me neither. It may or may not be true in Edge, I've never tried, but it absolutely wasn't true in any IE so I wouldn't naturally expect it to be true in Edge.

I certainly see where GP is coming from, Microsoft do have an awesome legacy in dev tooling that lives on to this day with products like VSCode, but browser tooling might be the glaring exception to this - perhaps since Microsoft never really was or became an 'internet' company.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by ambicapter on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @03:47PM (#19266785)
It seems like people consistently love or hate Visual Studio , and a lot of people seem to like VSCode.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by JohnFen on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @06:41PM (#19267930)
> If there's one thing microsoft knows how to do well, it's build developer tools.

I think that's a debatable assertion.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by furicane on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @05:15PM (#19267439)
I've been in frontend for a long time, since 1999. The dev console is my workplace. I have to use and be familiar with all popular browsers. Chrome's dev tools are far better in my opinion.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by digibo on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @03:27PM (#19266632)
I vaguely remember all of those things as separate phases. - Moving away from IE, I fell in love with Opera (lots of built-in features), most others with Firefox - Chrome comes in, it's Google, it's lightweight, people try it and like it - Chrome gets really fast, it appeals to even more people - Meanwhile, Firefox has enough extension power to replace Opera for me (who can live with the tabs BELOW address bar or without mouse gestures?) - Chrome implements the aforementioned technical stuff (separate processes, etc.), appealing to power users (this may have happened before speed improvements or at the same time) - Chrome finally gets extensions and I start using it personally, but it's impossible to be a web dev without Firefox+Firebug. (IE6 still sucks, but combined with Visual Studio, feels superb for JS debugging) - Chrome's dev tools gradually get better at everything. I start living in Chrome.

... years later ...

- A year ago I often used Firefox for its great Canvas debugger. They broke it. I've since forgotten about Firefox.

... 2019 ...

- Microsoft is trying to drive people away from IE, hoping for Edge adoption. I don't care for Firefox. Opera is almost Chrome with extensions. Edge sounds like it wants to be Chrome. Chrome won on most battlefronts. I don't like that fact, because of the "free from corporate greed" reasons mentioned, but it's going to be hard to change the status quo.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by joecool1029 on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @03:31PM (#19266655)
> Microsoft is trying to drive people away from IE, hoping for Edge adoption.

Lolno, they gave up and are ditching Edge to use Chrome because Electron. https://9to5google.com/2018/12/03/microsoft-chrome-based-bro...

Re:We Need Chrome No More by austincheney on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @09:03PM (#19268464)
That is not correct. MS is ditching Trident for Blink but Edge and Chakra are still remaining technologies. This is unfortunate because Chrome is super slow on large CSS animations
Re:We Need Chrome No More by galfarragem on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @08:34PM (#19268354)
> It's going to be hard to change the status quo.

There's plenty of room to improve on privacy. Non technical people don't care too much about privacy issues yet, but they will.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by mnm1 on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @04:19PM (#19267039)
That was true back then, but the FF dev tools are much superior now. Chrome lags behind severely. Last I checked, clicking an XHR link in the console just took me to the network tab instead of actually showing that request. FF shows it inline in the console. Not to mention code caching bugs in Chrome even with the cache turned off. This is the primary reason I switched back to FF.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by deadcat on Thursday February 28, 2019 @01:39AM (#19269453)
Sadly I find that the Firefox debugger is more likely to stall and flail about.

I keep trying to change to Firefox, but bring dragged back to Chrome.

I mostly work on stupidly big Single Page Apps, which may be part of the issue.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by irrational on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @06:14PM (#19267770)
The problem was I was so used to Firebug after using it for so many years that I just kept using it out of inertia up until the day Mozilla dropped it from Firefox entirely. Then I just moved over to Firefox's developer tools (still out of inertia).
Re:We Need Chrome No More by j0nathanB on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:54PM (#19265875)
I thought Firefox’s Developer Edition had decent dev tools.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by laumars on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @12:22PM (#19264910)
As you alluded to at the start of your post, Chromes speed improvements were more technical than it was due to a lack of bloat. In fact Chrome consumed more memory than FF did at that time and that was down to it being multi-processed (ie one heavy page wouldn’t slow down the rest of the application in other tabs) but that came at a cost in terms of RAM used.

Obviously the v8 stuff also made a massive difference too.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by jsight on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @12:53PM (#19265280)
Honestly, I hate the term "bloat". Most of the times when I've seen bloat blamed, the real cause has been a bad algorithm somewhere. Just as was the case with Chrome, its often the case that using more RAM (and maybe more "bloat") can make things faster.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by gregmac on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @05:50PM (#19267625)
After fixing bad algorithms, dealing with performance and resource utilization basically comes down to a series of trade-offs. In most cases:

Less RAM = More CPU or more disk space (and much slower)

Less CPU = more disk or RAM

Less disk = more network, RAM and/or CPU

Re:We Need Chrome No More by darkarmani on Thursday February 28, 2019 @05:36PM (#19276024)
> a bad algorithm somewhere

Along the lines of a custom memory manager, that never releases memory back to the OS. If you open tons of tabs, closing them wouldn't release the memory back. Which is a decent guess - it used the memory once, it will probably need it again.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by laumars on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @02:35PM (#19266221)
Yeah, i agree. And very succinctly put too.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by apostacy on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:01PM (#19265363)
I think another factor is just that Chrome's speed changed the landscape of web design itself, which fed back into Chrome's popularity.

By making javascript so much faster, it allowed web designers to do things that only Chrome could do.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by rifung on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:26PM (#19265605)
> Curious, I remember speed being the primary reason.

This was how I remember it as well. Not only that but the timing was very fortunate for Chrome because at the time Firefox had some very bad memory leaks which in my opinion really helped with Chrome adoption since people who use Firefox were more likely to be willing to switch browsers having already switched from another browser.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by slowmovintarget on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @05:39PM (#19267577)
Chrome won people away from Firefox because it was fast enough, and it worked correctly. The "working correctly" part was what pulled me away from Firefox.

Breaking ad-blocking is sending me back to Firefox.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by wnevets on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:08PM (#19265433)
>Curious, I remember speed being the primary reason.

Chromes super fast start up speed and clean UI is what caused me to switch when it first came out.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by jeena on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:38PM (#19265728)
I never switched because once upon a time I switched from Opera to Firefox because it was the most free (as in libre) browser and I haven't found a more free browser yet.

I try to live after the maxim: freedom before convenience (at least in parts of my life).

Re:We Need Chrome No More by llampx on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @04:00PM (#19266879)
If there's one thing that Google does well, it's convince the relevant people that their software is open source.

See: Chrome and Android

Re:We Need Chrome No More by jhasse on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @07:14PM (#19268055)
They are though. There are no Edge forks or free iOS distributions.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by stephenr on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @08:03PM (#19268243)
No, they’re not. They’re based on open source software.

But by that measure safari is open source because WebKit is open source.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by jhasse on Thursday February 28, 2019 @02:33AM (#19269663)
> But by that measure safari is open source because WebKit is open source.

There's a lot more closed source code in Safari than there's in Chrome. But sure: Why not give them credit for open-sourcing WebKit? Safari is closer to open-source than IE.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by stephenr on Thursday February 28, 2019 @03:04AM (#19269802)
And yet I trust Safari a fucking lot more than I trust Chrome. Something about not being a business reliant on harvesting every bit of personal information possible.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by jhasse on Thursday February 28, 2019 @04:07AM (#19270057)
And you're probably right. "Open-source-ness" shouldn't be the only measure when valuing software.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by jonas21 on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @04:50PM (#19267272)
Have you considered switching to lynx?
Re:We Need Chrome No More by jeena on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @06:07PM (#19267727)
I used it for a month or something back when I couldn't get the graphics card working, but it was not fun.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by 3xblah on Thursday February 28, 2019 @06:11AM (#19270535)
Perhaps it is the so-called "corporate greed" that creates the bloat.

The added funtionality that the browser "needs", once added, is in practice overwhelmingly directed at commercial purposes, primarily advertising-supported businesses.

In theory it could be used for anything.

Correct me if wrong, but Netscape was originally intended to be a browser for commercial enterprise where companies would pay licensing fees.

And Firefox, whatever its purpose was (perhaps an alternative to another corporate browser from Microsoft), ended up being the precursor to Chrome, a browser written by an ad sales company, as the original Chrome developers were originally Firefox developers.

Following the ideal that the web is this wonderful open platform accessible to anyone, I would like to see more browsers, with reduced functionalty (and perhaps increased safety/privacy and freedom from ads), written not by companies nor organizations that try to compete feature-for-feature with those corporations. These simpler browsers could target the non-commercial web, e.g. the web as a free information source. A web where an individual page need not be a conglomeration of random third parties vying for user attention.

Methinks it should be more troubling to the HN crowd that "browsers" are not amongst the class of programs that can be easily written, edited and compiled by anyone. They could be, but the popular definition of "browser" needs to change, moving away from "all the features of Company's browser" or "all the features Working Group is discussing with input from Companies" and more toward what a given user (cf. company, advertiser), including non-commercial users, actually needs for a given task.

There will always be corporate-sponsored web browsers with corporate-friendly, advertising-friendly features. But we need non-corporate browsers too. They may be enough to accomplish the user's non-commercial tasks but not well-suited for web advertising, e.g. optional auto-loading third party resources.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by tenebrisalietum on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:34PM (#19265693)
I remember using Firefox in the pre 1.0 days.

It took slightly longer to launch than IE, but since it had tabs, I didn't care, because I wasn't opening a new instances constantly.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by Yoric on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @02:21PM (#19266098)
Fwiw, IE was pre-launched with Windows. That was the secret behind its (often) fast startup.

Not doing the same in Firefox was a conscious design decision by the Firefox team, which didn't want to hoard the memory when Firefox wasn't in use.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by Phrodo_00 on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @02:35PM (#19266226)
Yeah, seamonkey (and maybe opera) also had ways to start the browser with the os.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by om2 on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:55PM (#19265881)
v8 was initially 32-bit x86 only. And it wasn’t coded in a CPU independent way or word size independent way at all. Adding a new CPU amounted to basically rewriting the whole JIT. Chrome took a long time to go 64-bit for this reason.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by cm2187 on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @12:17PM (#19264841)
You would need to break web standards compatibility to fight the current bloat cycle on the web. But it might happen, a simpler, faster web.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by scottlocklin on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @12:45PM (#19265156)
Or you could block the trackers, which are most of the bloat.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by jimmy1 on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:01PM (#19265364)
On some sites, on others it's the 2.5-5mb PWA-that-gracefully-falls-back-to-SPA-that-gracefully-falls-back-to-SSR-with-bundled-inline-styles-and-images JS app that has horrid caching that is causing most of the bloat.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by duado on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:02PM (#19265367)
That’s what AMP is..,
Re:We Need Chrome No More by mapgrep on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @12:22PM (#19264905)
Good point, V8 (that is, fast Javascript) was key as well.

(I suppose it makes sense I'd agree with someone else with a Perl-inspired handle :-)

Re:We Need Chrome No More by Lorkki on Thursday February 28, 2019 @04:04AM (#19270045)
>> Chrome's appeal was primarily technical. Each tab got its own process and could crash without taking down the entire browser.

>Curious, I remember speed being the primary reason

It was probably both. I know I was definitely sick of sites (mostly Flash) crashing the browser and throwing my entire session in the bin. I was probably already using some Gecko-based "light" browser instead of Firefox, but V8 did make a difference when using the emerging web app style sites like Gmail.

Re:We Need Chrome No More by ownagefool on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @03:04PM (#19266455)
If it was either, why wasn't it a patch set against firefox, rather than IP owned by google?
Re:We Need Chrome No More by jhasse on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @07:16PM (#19268065)
Probably because WebKit was easier to patch.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by crimsonalucard on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @11:32PM (#19268958)
I always thought it was the cool name and logo. Chrome sounds way more slick then internet explorer or firefox. Plus the logo for chrome was shiny.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by krferriter on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @10:44PM (#19268830)
Yeah speed is the reason I used (and sometimes still) use it. Also the dev tools are better than Firefox's.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by agumonkey on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @01:05PM (#19265400)
I assumed it was in clear relationship to the gmail era of web applications trying to be a full desktop equivalent.
Re:We Need Chrome No More by microcolonel on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @04:40PM (#19267203)
> They start off lean, gain features over time

I'm pretty sure there's a copy of MooTools in the Chromium repository.