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Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by hackersword on Thursday January 24, 2019 @11:55AM (#18990404)
I've found it the case if you do more then one "advanced" searches using these operators, your flagged as "unusual activity" and have to do captcha to prove you not a bot.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by jjoonathan on Thursday January 24, 2019 @12:58PM (#18991081)
I got "hellbanned" the other day -- google kept giving me captchas but always marked my answers incorrect. 20 minutes later, I gave up and drove to the library (!).

It reset itself the next day, but it really opened my eyes to the power they have slowly obtained over my life.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by jlokier on Thursday January 24, 2019 @05:01PM (#18993474)
I tried making a throwaway account on this site recently.

It took about 5 minutes to get past the (Google) captcha.

First I clicked that I'm not a robot, but then it gave me the photos of doom. After clicking all the right pictures of a bus, say, then I had to wait while they fade out and fade in new ones rather slowly. There were about 5 rounds of selecting. Then it would pick another noun and ask for that. After a few nouns of a number of rounds each, it cycled back to the first noun. A doubly-nested loop of time-delayed captchas!

Thankfully it wasn't important.

But it makes me appreciate how someone getting locked out of their own Gmail or Google Docs must feel.

Needed to do your job today? Tough luck, better luck tomorrow maybe.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by taftster on Thursday January 24, 2019 @08:43PM (#18994816)
I had this happen the other day too. I spent at least 5 minutes each going through 3 different captchas. The slow fade-in / fade-out thing was new and quite annoying. The images were also quite blurry as well.

I suspect that if you have a machine that is less likely to be fingerprinted uniquely, you have to solve more captcha. In this case, I happened to be using Firefox on Linux with a few privacy related addons running. If they believe you are a bot, because you're not watching their ads, or because you are running a privacy enhanced environment, I suspect their algorithms will slow you down.

It would be interesting to prove this hypothesis. I wonder if you browse with Windows + Chrome + No Ad Blockers, if you get right through the captchas vs. if you use Linux + Firefox + Ad block or maybe even the Tor browser.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by InitialLastName on Thursday January 24, 2019 @05:07PM (#18993529)
Google obviously just decided you were good at training its machine learning algs.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by piyush_soni on Friday January 25, 2019 @01:59AM (#18996103)
My hypothesis : Google always shows the captchas now, even when it knows that you're really not a robot because it knows you need its services and you'll probably solve them for free for up to a minute. Related post : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18704960 (Ask HN: Do you think Google's recaptcha has gone greedy off late?)
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by DKWf8EV on Thursday January 24, 2019 @01:31PM (#18991447)
I don't think you really got hellbanned, Google captchas have just become extremely buggy in recent months. Whenever I have to solve one it always takes me a few tries, sometimes a dozen or more, and I usually triple check whether I've actually selected all the traffic lights/bicycles/chimneys/whatevers before submitting...

(Alternative hypothesis: If you solve a captcha correctly, they intentionally give you a few more, to get more good data for their AI algos.)

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by warent on Thursday January 24, 2019 @02:46PM (#18992217)
I'm inclined to go with your alternative hypothesis. The quality of the captcha response degrades the more times you solve it consecutively.

I was recently developing a web frontend that had a captcha implementation on the login form. The first couple times I solved the captcha there was no problem. Then once it got to fourth and fifth one it started making me solve a few of captcha pages in a row. Eventually it was forcing me to solve several pages of "Select the picture of the fire hydrant" over and over, often marking it as incorrect when it definitely wasn't, and then restarting back from the beginning so each run-through took multiple minutes forcing you to solve dozens of captcha pages before accepting it as correct.

So, to add to your hypothesis, they're probably doing this intentionally not only to get more data for their AI algos, but also to mitigate people training bots on CAPTCHAs.

EDIT: Also the fact that you're being downvoted is baffling to me but my tinfoil hat persona makes me wonder if it's some orchestrated downvote because you're pointing out a hypothesis that Google is trying to keep hidden.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by kbenson on Thursday January 24, 2019 @02:59PM (#18992341)
It's both. The more consecutive CAPTCHAs you solve in a short period, the more likely Google is to assume you're not a human (or not up to any good), but you definitely can get google browsing identity (however they tag you as a combination of IP, browser fingerprint, etc) to the point that they won't every consider enough responses a good indicator. I've done it many times, and yes, it usually is fixed within a few hours or the next day.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by jjoonathan on Thursday January 24, 2019 @03:13PM (#18992465)
I agree that a heuristic (machine learning or otherwise) designed to prevent spam was almost certainly the culprit. I disagree with the notion that this does not constitute a hellban, but I'm open to considering alternative nomenclature.

The fact stands that google locked me away from my documents and intentionally undermined my ability to understand what had happened or rectify the situation.

Collateral damage is still damage.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by gowld on Thursday January 24, 2019 @04:22PM (#18993099)
It may be a ban or an errorban, but it's not a hellban, in any sense of what "hell" means in "hellban:: https://blog.codinghorror.com/suspension-ban-or-hellban/

It also might just be a broken integration with recaptcha.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by nkurz on Thursday January 24, 2019 @02:25PM (#18992015)
It's ironic that this comment saying about "hellbanning" was "autodead", and I had to "vouch" to revive it.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by kbenson on Thursday January 24, 2019 @02:56PM (#18992309)
I wonder if it hit some automatic filter by virtue of being new, and talking about banning/hellbanning?
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by daveFNbuck on Friday January 25, 2019 @02:46AM (#18996262)
I find I can often get away with throwing in a wrong answer or two.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by corobo on Friday January 25, 2019 @03:42AM (#18996486)
It's probably similar to old recaptcha where they give you a selection of known answers and a couple of unknowns which they're uncertain of. Probably known not-correct answers too so that the system works.

If you select the unknowns as well as all of the known answers (and don't select the wrong answers) they can train their AI robots that the extras you selected are also a part of the "has traffic lights" dataset

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by yesco on Thursday January 24, 2019 @01:07PM (#18991194)
Why not just use a different search engine? Was the library that much easier in this case?
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by jjoonathan on Thursday January 24, 2019 @02:58PM (#18992331)
Google search wasn't the product being gatekept by google's captcha.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by dreamcompiler on Friday January 25, 2019 @12:06AM (#18995711)
This is the main reason I use DuckDuckGo now. I was something of a Google power user and they kept sending me on endless captcha safaris.

Bye Google.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by floofy222 on Friday January 25, 2019 @05:17AM (#18996873)
I just think these captchas are broken in Chrome.

Sometimes I use one of these operators by mistake and get instantaneously hellbanned from using google. The first time the captchas kept reappearing a whole day. I read somewhere that the ban is resetted the next day, but the next day I was still getting the captchas and couldn't use google for anything.

I deleted all cookies and suddenly I wasn't banned anymore. So this looks to me like a captcha bug, or a chrome bug, or both. Probably both.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by beagle3 on Saturday January 26, 2019 @03:00AM (#19005387)
I still browse at the library myself occasionally, but ... ddg? Bing? Startpage? Searx?

There are many other search engines as well as other ways to access the google index.

Also, a couple of years ago someone posted a search engine he wrote, which was able to index the internet for ~$200/month hosting costs. Sure, it doesn’t do partial or full javascript eval like google, so it doesn’t index the deeper web. But “laser air breakdown” is likely mostly in plain HTML docs.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by kodablah on Thursday January 24, 2019 @04:34PM (#18993223)
> 20 minutes later, I gave up and drove to the library (!).

Assuming it's traditional Google search from your ISP, there other alternatives such as using startpage.com or Tor.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by enedil on Thursday January 24, 2019 @09:32PM (#18995079)
That's assuming you didn't read OC reply to the same comment above.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by userbinator on Thursday January 24, 2019 @10:10PM (#18995225)
Tor is even worse (think of everyone else who uses it...)
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by throwaway2048 on Friday January 25, 2019 @12:38AM (#18995838)
Yep Recaptcha bans work like that, they don't actually tell you they are never going to let you proceed, they just let waste your time thinking that they will, while profiting off you.

Its a perfect example of passive aggressive dysfunctionality when it comes to big tech.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by oarabbus_ on Thursday January 24, 2019 @04:28PM (#18993166)
They shouldn't have this power
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by trumped on Thursday January 24, 2019 @05:47PM (#18993836)
Google's recaptcha became cancer and I really wish companies would stop using it (I think that they are trying to block everyone who still uses a PC). The other day I wasn't even able to create a new reddit account because of it.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by redwards510 on Thursday January 24, 2019 @07:38PM (#18994470)
I read this can happen if you are using anti-fingerprinting privacy browser extensions (CanvasBlocker possibly?)
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by ask2sk on Saturday January 26, 2019 @11:34PM (#19010354)
Why not just use DuckDuckGo or other search engines?
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by chewxy on Thursday January 24, 2019 @03:24PM (#18992542)
oh is that what it was? I've had that many many times in recent days
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by mateo1 on Friday January 25, 2019 @04:23AM (#18996676)
I've encountered the same issue. On top of that, you're no longer allowed to search for specific strings with the '"' operator. It just ignores it. What a world we live in.

I can dictate an email to my phone or search videos based on the semantic interpretation of their automated audio transcriptions (yes I've noticed Youtube will sometimes do this) but I can't search for some unpopular technical term because I'm obviously a bot if I do this. Thanks for correcting me Google, of course I meant to search about "laser hair removal", not "laser air breakdown".

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by zzzcpan on Thursday January 24, 2019 @12:10PM (#18990562)
Yeah, this is some cloudflare-level "security" abused to the point where we enter this strange paradoxical state. Advanced features exist, but are not allowed to be used enough by anyone to actually learn them and use often.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by fuhrysteve on Thursday January 24, 2019 @01:55PM (#18991719)
Honestly I bet it's a learning algorithm that they used to identify bots, rather than something a human decided.

Spam detection algorithms usually have a training set. One of the features could have been "uses_feature_x", which, according to the training set, is known to have a high probability of being a spam bot (because humans rarely use those features)

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by mario0b1 on Thursday January 24, 2019 @02:33PM (#18992079)
https://duckduckgo.com/ does not have this problem. (And it has really good search results too)
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by wasim_ullah on Thursday January 24, 2019 @02:41PM (#18992166)
They are not as flexible and powerful.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by zozbot123 on Thursday January 24, 2019 @12:17PM (#18990622)
This is why we need more variety in search engines. Google does not want you doing "advanced" and "unusual" things with their service anymore, because they're scared that SEOs will use this to manipulate their search outcomes. But of course every SEO targets Google anyway, so the "plain vanilla" results are just as terrible!
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by shittyadmin on Thursday January 24, 2019 @12:53PM (#18991032)
The main reason they block this is because it's used by malware as in infection vector - makes it easy to find vulnerable hosts running outdated webapps for example.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by TeMPOraL on Thursday January 24, 2019 @01:10PM (#18991218)
Part of me thinks it's not their responsibility to do this. It's pretty paternalistic behavior. It seems typical of Google these days, though. I don't understand why they seem to be actively opposed to power users, all across their products.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by userbinator on Thursday January 24, 2019 @10:18PM (#18995255)
I don't understand why they seem to be actively opposed to power users, all across their products.

Power users are the ones who know how things work; they are difficult to manipulate and mislead, will use their knowledge to consume content in the way they want (blocking ads, stripping DRM, rooting devices, etc.), and are in general not docile and "obedient".

In summary: power users know how to control their destiny, and this is something companies like Google are opposed to, because those companies want to be the ones in control.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by eitland on Thursday January 24, 2019 @04:53PM (#18993403)
> I don't understand why they seem to be actively opposed to power users, all across their products.

Why is everyone so actively opposed to power users? I blame tbe field of UX that

- instead of working to improve products so that ordinary people can achieve more

- always decides to work on dumbing down the products so "everyone" can use them.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by MRD85 on Friday January 25, 2019 @03:58AM (#18996558)
I feel for some companies this has backfired in the long run. Take for example Blizzard, a video game company. They used to have a perfect reputation but over time it has tarnished due to catering to the masses.

World of Warcraft became more and more accessible over time, and eventually reached a point where it was so accessible that no one wanted to play it since it wasn't fun and there was nothing to achieve.

Diablo 3 was meant to appeal to the mass market but it was really obvious to everyone that the game was horrible since it wasn't actually meant for anyone in particular. They literally had design choices that were obvious to teenagers that it was a profit-making machine.

I haven't really been a video gamer in years but AFAIK they don't have the same reputation and are just an ordinary company now due to changing their model from "amazing product" to "mass market product".

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by netheril96 on Thursday January 24, 2019 @10:06PM (#18995199)
Because catering to power users is bad for business, and catering to the masses is good for it.

* Power users are far fewer than ordinary people. * Power users are hard to manipulate, and hard to satisfy.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by puzzle on Thursday January 24, 2019 @04:19PM (#18993065)
No, the main reason I know about is that advanced operators are more resource intensive than regular queries. Not blocking these would affect search for everybody else.

That, of course, also tends to take care of spammers, malware as you described and just plain buggy bots. Those can be tackled with additional measures, but first and foremost Google cares about search latency. (And quality: higher latency reduces quality, too.)

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by userbinator on Thursday January 24, 2019 @10:19PM (#18995262)
And quality: higher latency reduces quality, too

Ridiculous. I'd rather wait longer for better results.

Even in the real world there is a correspondingly analogous saying: "Think carefully before you open your mouth."

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by zozbot123 on Friday January 25, 2019 @02:27AM (#18996183)
These days I have to wait longer simply because of Google's "auto-search" functionality and their heavy use of JS. It's like it's trying to guess what I want to see before I'm even done inputing a search query-- which I'm sure is very convenient for novices, not so much if you're a power user and looking for something specific. Other search engines (Bing, DDG) don't have this problem, of course.

I think Google have just stopped even trying to maintain their "flagship" Search service - that the only way I could explain how their search quality and website responsiveness could decline to the level of the old Yahoo.com and Altavista. And don't get me started about the sorry state of their Google Groups archive...

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by puzzle on Friday January 25, 2019 @12:43AM (#18995860)
You're right, in theory, but that's not how things work in reality at scale. Remember that every search query propagates through at least a thousand machines.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by zozbot123 on Thursday January 24, 2019 @01:08PM (#18991202)
The fact that they're restricting this feature across the board suggests that they're more scared about SEO efforts. Malware-related searches would be easier to spot as an anomaly and filter out (and the article states that they do this in some cases).
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by shittyadmin on Thursday January 24, 2019 @01:54PM (#18991709)
They don't restrict it across the board, I use many of these operators all the time without issue, the only time I run into difficulties is doing very specific "Google dork"-like queries repetitively.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by zozbot123 on Thursday January 24, 2019 @01:58PM (#18991772)
That's exactly the SEO use case though. I mean, it's not exactly a secret that grey/black-hat SEOs want to do this, the problem is that the limits Google places on it inconvenience every power user too!
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by shittyadmin on Thursday January 24, 2019 @04:33PM (#18993220)
I must be missing something here - How would this impact SEO? Blackhat SEO is primarily about generating false backlinks to your site, often through blog and comment spam. Search queries to Google will have little if any impact, especially using fancier operators.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by ur-whale on Thursday January 24, 2019 @01:08PM (#18991203)
>This is why we need more variety in search engines

While more variety in search engines would be great, they'd still be choke points.

What's really needed is a decentralized search engine.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by blhack on Thursday January 24, 2019 @01:10PM (#18991215)
Currently running into this problem. I've gotten really frustrated trying to read the news lately, where washingtonpost especially will say that I've used up all my free articles for the month, and can't read anymore.

Okay, that's fine, but then I'd rather not see them in my google results. If wapo wants to put their content behind a paywall, cool, but google should be an index of things I can read. So I've been experimenting with various search flags to exclude them. Started getting hit with captchas just now.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by reaperducer on Thursday January 24, 2019 @03:36PM (#18992659)
If you're on a Macintosh or iDevice, Apple News lets you block specific sources.

I use this to lock out sources that are behind a paywall, or that only feed Apple News one paragraph and require you to click/scroll through to their site for the full story. Often nothing is lost because those sites are only barely functional on mobile anyway.

Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by MichaelMoser123 on Friday January 25, 2019 @02:30AM (#18996194)
You can search on duckduckgo with the g! operator. This makes the search anonymous (does it?) That's why duckduckgo is my default search engine.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by 0eye on Friday January 25, 2019 @09:14AM (#18997978)
No. DDG can't stop Google's tracking if you use the Google bang. Says right in the bang docs.
Re:Google Search Operators: A Complete List (2018) by aw3c2 on Friday January 25, 2019 @02:45AM (#18996257)
Not at all! All that does is redirect you to Google.