One breathing technique and why I think the some of the Yoga works is pretty simple. I am not sure if Yoga would reset the fight/flight response further. 4x4 breathing. It mimics deep sleep and presses the reset button on the sympathetic nervous system. This helps with anxiety a lot. The technique is simple. Breath in for 4 seconds, hold for 4 seconds , breath out for 4 seconds, hold for 4 seconds. I notice I do tend to do this through my nose, which probably helps.

edit: meant to add this is also taught to Navy SEALS to help them in high stress situations. A lot of the training is to recognize when you are OBE (overcome by events) and how to deal with that to make clear decision.

This technique appears to habe cured my physical anxiety. I learned of it six weeks ago, and had had such anxiety for two years post burnout. Now it's gone. I'm amazed.

There were a couple other things that may have helped. I wrote down my main source of worry, and considered it in depth, worst case, odds, how to recover, and it became clear that it's not actually an urgent problem.

Don't know which one had the greater effect, I did both at once. But I could feel the 4*4 breathing blocking a physical anxiety response in the middle of one happening.

"Don't know which one had the greater effect, I did both at once. But I could feel the 4*4 breathing blocking a physical anxiety response in the middle of one happening. "

To me it feels the other way. I feel the breathing opens up something that allows me to release the anxiety. In the end it's probably the same just from a different viewpoint.

I think so. Release could well be what happened.

Basically before the anxierty happened liked this:

1. Minor negative stimulus appears. I could feel the body react.

2. When I inhaled, and not before, my neck would feel some tension. This would persist a bit.

I had ried breath holding before, but that just delayed the stress feeling. Instead, I:

1. Held breath and counted to 4 2. Exhaled sharply 3. Inhaled a bit, and counted to four 4. Repeat if necessary

Thr new elements were counting, and the exhale before inhale. Followeed byna knowledge that I had two more steps to do: inhaling and counting. Rather than merely an uncontrolledminhalation and hope of no stress.

Interestingly, I rarely need the breathing now. My bosy changed its reaction to the minor stresssors. Maybe I’m just less on edge and less reactive, and the breathing helped my body come down from that reactive state.

Love the algorithmic reduction here

Oh that's just how I think haha. Hadn't even noticed. What is it, breaking it down to steps?

I think the experience of it is subjective based how you perceive fight/flight (anxiety). What we know is this pushes some buttons in the nervous system, and I think how we perceive that can vary a lot, but the objective result is similar for a lot of people. What is cool about this technique is you can’t cheat it. It will cause the reactions due to the way breathing works in the body and the automatic responses wired to that.

Is this technique supposed to be uncomfortable to do? I've come across this and tried it multiple times now and holding my breath is not particularly pleasant. I've seen this suggested to help one fall asleep but it's never helped me and my response is usually mild discomfort. Not sure if this is intended.

When I did it, I had the sensation of being denied breath. Mildly unpleasant, but I think this is what forced present focus and got me out of stress.

Not very unpleasant mind you. Same level as seeing how long you can hold your breath, except much less intense.

You don't necessarily have to do 4x4 to make this work. For example, I sometimes do 8x4 (I guess I count double-time) breath-hold. Or sometimes I do 4x1, where there's just a slight pause at the hold.

I think a big piece of breathwork is changing the focus of the conscious mind. When you're focused on your breathing and counting, you're not focused on whatever else is out there.

Play with it, find something that works for you.

That technique is for people that have well developed bodies. You can try 3-in, 4-out, 1-hold, repeat. As smoothly as possible.

Use a timer, don't count. Don't think about stuff while you're at it, just watch the timer and keep it smooth.

for four seconds???

You could also argue that is has nothing to do with breathing.

But rather it's conditioning to switch to a less anxious mode. So if you practice doing anything physical while becoming calmer then eventually you'll imprint conditioning on yourself . So that when you go through those motions, regardless of it they are a way of breathing, moving your fingers, walking, whatever, just something very specific then you'll trigger the emotional change too.

Not to say the technique doesn't work. Just that it's difficult to isolate what actually makes things work and we often jump to an unsupported conclusion.

I am pretty sure it has a direct mechanical nervous system stimulus.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog...

It also hits your HRV. My Garmin watch (Fenix 5X) has a deep breathing timer (relax timer). It will definitely increase my HRV when I do it (lowering the watches real time stress score, which is measuring HRV). So it is physiological and psychological.

That's a good one. When I did this first time, just trying to be aware of and to control my breath caused some anxiety but with some practice it got easier and now my breath is much more even. I am also able to bring my heart rate after exercise down quicker just by conscious breathing.

I just wanted to say great thanks for sharing this technique. I tried it yesterday when I played live poker tournament and it was amazingly helpful in being focused and calm down emotions. I also noticed that it simply could be used for meditation because it keeps the brain so focused on counting numbers that it simply does not go anywhere else.

One method I like is breathing up into sinus for x seconds from one nostril whole holding other closed, then breathing out through the previously closed one. Then reverse it, ping ponging from one nostril to the other.

Agree! Pranayama and other yoga practices are very powerful and effective. It's very important to have an experienced teacher rather than trying to do it yourself. These practices can have very strong effects and can be misused. There is a lot of misinformation floating around. I recommend finding an experienced teacher in the Krishnamacharya/Viniyoga tradition.

What are the negative effects people get when they don't work with a teacher?

There could be many different issues that could arise, it depends on the person. I will note an experience that I had.

I had been doing a Viniyoga practice for 1 or 2 years. I do pranayama in my asana (the physical exercises) and at this time I was not doing a separate pranayama practice. My teacher changed the pranayama in my practice and I became ill as if having a bad flu and I had some nasty boils break out on my legs. In retrospect, I needed to do some detoxing before doing this type of pranayama. My teacher kept me away from doing that pranayama for one or two years. Now I can, and have, been doing advanced pranayama for many years with no issues. I do this mostly in my asana practice but I do have seperate pranayama practices that I can do as well.

Where do you practice? I would love to have a teacher that understands pranayama and can prescribe the right technique. Most teachers just know asana.

I practice on my own. In our tradition, yoga is taught one to one. There are some classes you can find, but the intent of these is to introduce people to the tradition and for people to get to know the teacher a bit before doing private sessions. Yoga is taught this way so that the program that a person follows has been customized for their situation. This can have a great effect.

Back to your question. My teacher is fully booked and not taking new students. He mostly does seminars and teacher trainings. His name is Chase Bossart and he studied with TKV Desikachar over a 20 year period.

I've had almost 12 years of study with Chase and I'm now teaching on a limited basis. There are other students of Chase here in the SF Bay area and there are many people who studied with Desikachar around the world.

Cool. The Desikachar and Krishnmacharya people seem really good and very practical. I have done some trainings with Gray Kraftsow and I would love to have someone with that depth of knowledge guide my practice.

Oh, cool that you've had some experience with it!

A few years ago I did teacher training (RYT-500 plus a few hundred more hours), taught for a few years. I have studied with a lot of people like Kraftsow, Rod Stryker and others but I haven't found a teacher who is knowledgeable and provides individual training. I am practicing myself but I wonder how much progress I could make with a good teacher.

Thoughts: 1. What tradition did you study? 2. I think a good teacher would make a difference if you studied a different tradition/line of teachers. 3. I'm interested to know what you are practicing. 4. As I mentioned before there are people doing private mentoring, but you have to look for them and find one that you like. We need to get a directory going, but that will take time. If you want, you can ping me here: [email protected] and I can try to help you find someone.

What do you mean by detoxing before doing that type of pranayama ?

In case you didn't see it, I replied above your comment. :-)

orhmeh09, there's no link for me to reply to your comment. So I'll post here.

My understanding of things like boils is that the body is not able to release the toxins quickly enough through the digestive system, so it releases them through the skin.

The pranayama I was doing was pushing my body to get rid of toxins. After doing some juice cleansing, I was able to do this type of pranayama.

Pranayama is typically fast breathing, and sometimes continuous in/out breathing. it's very different from the 4x4 breathing mentioned in this thread.

I am healing trauma and my experience with pranayama is that it doesn't help. Pranayama excitest he nervous system, thus causes more upset. Pranayama is something you should do when you are emotionally stable.

You can see that it excites the nervous system because you get tingly sensations coursing in your arms, or legs, or various places.

What I found from personal experience having done meditation and vipassana before, is that it isn't necessary to deliberately work with the nervous system.

If anything, I'd recommend the opposite to anybody. Try to RELAX as much as possible again and again. The extent to which you can not fully relax and sink into your sofa at the end of the day, AND forget about everything and be fully engaged in the present and what you're watching (if you're watching tv)... THAT is the extent to which there are tensions in the body that are in fact TIGHTENING and constricting the flow of energy. And by energy I mean here, science doesn't have words for that yet. Go figure, I think it's mostly blood flow but some of it can be nervous system related as well.

Put it simply: rather than excite the nervous system to supposedly make it stronger, you relax the bodily tensions so that the VITALITY that is already present and always there can move unimpeded. This is admittedly a view closer to that of bioenergetics, and I find it matches VERY closesly to my experience healing trauma.

That is why anxiety is the way it is. If it was a "charge" in the body, then you'd spend it and be done with it. And yet, it seems endless. It's seemingly endless because it's always created right there in the moment. It is the very vitality of the nervous system that is continually impeded by bodily tensions. The mind is what keeps those tensions in place.

Yoga in a sense also excites the nervous system by opening up the tensions, but it's much softer and safer than pranayama.

I know for fact that it excites the nervous system since I am healing trauma I can feel the agitation in me after each yoga class. First, it feels good but by the time I'm home 1h later... I feel agitated... I have to force myself to settle down and then relax with the tv for 30min to an hour. WHich is a very good practice. I suspect a lot of people don't realize that dimension of yoga because as soon as they're out of the class they keep getting busy. If you however try to be still after yoga, then it can be a good practice to try and relax into it.

So TLDR don't do pranayama (fast breathing) with SIGNIFICANT (ie. many years) anxiety and/or depression. While you may have a few pleasant highs, you'll end up adding more tension and cause more agitation.

My advice is to find a good yoga class, and do the slow breathing throughout the whole class. Typically breathing in and out in sync with slowly opening/closing arms/legs/whatever posture it is.

Whatever pranayama does for you, the signs of coming out of a state of vigilance in the body are:

- vision feels like it opens up, more panoramic - colours sometimes feel more vibrant, blacks look deeper - you notice smells you didn't notice before - you feel areas of the body more than you used to - hands feel very soft - hands are warmer, more often than before, sometimes REALLY warm which is super nice then you can rest a hand on your chest or diaphragm area - the mind calms down - in general due to all of this you feel more "anchored" in present experience for lack of better world

respectfully, no. There are dozens of techniques under the name of Pranayama.. what you are describing (at length) is not the whole picture.. for example, a pattern of "out 8 steps; in 1 long step" is calming and also "pranayama"

Agree! teachers in the system of BKS Iyengar are skilled as well.. For the skeptical or drive-by practitioners.. think for a moment on all the states of activity the human body is capable of .. from the deepest rest, to the most active fight or flight and multitudes of others.. breathing has to connect to each, both following (support that metabolic state) or leading (change state quickly) .. next, think for a moment on the greater numbers of illness in the mind and body.. following, or leading.. short answer, you can invoke the breath of the athletes, or of the dying, in the extremes.. heart-attack in the infirm, panic and confusion in the unstable, etc.. Please be careful with pranayama or breathing practices !

Interesting! Thank you. :-)

The renowned author Michael Pollan said in his book about psychedelics that breathing exercises can get you part the way there without any drugs at all.

Yoga/meditation can get you all the way there. It takes time though. Along the way there are many benefits.

I like to think of the various ancient techniques as abstraction layers that were developed around a black box. In that there are definitely useful outcomes even if the traditional reasoning may be flawed.

It's also possible the traditional reasoning is the same kind of abstraction layer developed around a similar black box, not necessarily most helpful to be taken literally.

Can you suggest an intro to practicing pranayama specifically, as opposed to generic mindfulness or meditation?

Don’t try all the exotic practises in the initial 1 or 2 years. Initially it is recommended only to observe breath, and may be the 4/4/4/4 technique mentioned in another comment, you can try the 4/4/4/4 technique by inhaling through one nostril and exhaling from the other. And gradually increase the count from 4 to whatever you are comfortable with.

https://www.banyanbotanicals.com/info/ayurvedic-living/livin...

Recent Yoga teachers, try to teach all types of Pranayama to a beginner, but when reading books written 100 years back, it is mentioned that mind and breath are linked tightly, and practising techniques which isn’t recommended for your condition, by an experienced guru, can actually make you mad.

The notion that a normal mentally stable person could be driven mad by these practices is absurd. Citation needed.

Ugh the mindset that everything in the universe needs a previous citation in a scientific journal for it to be possible. barf

The more extraordinary the claim, the stronger the evidence required. The claim that trying to learn Pranayama from an "experienced guru" can "actually make you mad" is an extraordinary claim indeed.

Never mind a journal citation, I'd settle for a clear hypothesis with a plausible method of action. All I've seen so far is woo.

Look for "baba ramdev + pranayam". There are a ton of videos online with him teaching pranayam. Like with all things of this nature there's a whole lot of junk surrounding it (marketing etc) that he also indulges in but the exercises themselves are good. Here's what I could find.

You might find some books at patanjali[1]. They have a good list of exercises although the BS part does appear in some books.

[1] https://patanjaliayurved.org/product-category/patanjali-publ...

first 3-7 years of intensive physical practices then only begin to investigate pranyama.

https://shadowyoga.com/newsletter/pra%E1%B9%87ayama/

""" Clarity about the required procedures, the appropriate tools and their use will allow one to tread the path of self-cultivation with the minimum of setbacks. Confusion will result in the multiplication of these setbacks, and the accumulation of injuries and disappointments will eventually result in the collapse of ones undertaking. """

> first 3-7 years of intensive physical practices then only begin to investigate pranyama.

I would say this is slightly far stretched and discouraging for newcomers along with being misleading.

Being regular with yoga for a few months (if not weeks), one can start doing pranayama. Having a person to guide you along is highly recommended but saying that investing multiple years and then exploring as a suggestion makes it sound like some mumbo-jumbo which it's not.

It's not exaggeration. These things require serious commitment.

Why?

If you are not ready and still somehow do it, you can pretty much know the results immediately. There will a turmoil within generally due to heartburn leading to sleeplessness and fever.

For this reason, it's really better to find a guru who will guide the practitioner.

I suppose I wouldn't be ready because I haven't practiced. I've tried it but I didn't notice anything.

.. accurate folk advice, if a bit on the conservative side, but not wrong.. Cardiac health is a long time to develop, and a long time to recover.. mental health stability is indicated by long, stable practice.. both mental health and cardiac health are directly relevant !

Perhaps, but did you read the article.

It merely tested that people recalled smells better when they didn't have a clipper put on their nose. The title is highly spurious.

It's great to see that a focus on correct breathing is getting more acceptance. It seems the yogis were really onto something. Same with gut health. Ayurveda states there is a connection between gut health and general health and slowly mainstream medicine also seems to acknowledge that connection. There is also a lot of nonsense in Ayurveda and Yoga but I am happy that a lot of their good parts are getting more respect.

Are there books about pranayama and neuroscience that one can point me to? For meditation I found Search Inside Yourself to be a good book. I wish there was a book like that for yoga.

Do hou have a link for a beginner ?

A lot of the comments here are so far over the edge of sanity for me. If folks want to believe you need to train for X years before learning breathing techniques that is up to them, but no one is backing those claims up.

If you are looking for a simple and not particularly woo woo guide to this breathing technique (and yoga in general) the yoga with adrienne Youtube channel is a great resource.

In general, learning good breathing techniques and some basic yoga are the single best things you can do for net improvement of physical and mental health in my opinion.

You can get many of the benefits of asana/insert type of yoga here without investing in expensive courses or devoting yourself to any non provable beliefs - which is also clearly my opinion.

Yoga with Adrienne is legit, thanks for the recommendation.

Actually, I think this book[1] you might find useful to get started. It's really concise, has a digital version, and totally tailors to the notion of starting slowly.

The breathing exercises, in particular, are divided into weekly segments, sometimes more. You start with 2-3 breath counts on week 1 and then continue to build.

[1]: https://www.yogaindailylife.org/system/en/

Are there any great books or videos that teacH Pranayama effectively?