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Re:Slow Software by coder543 on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @07:00PM (#18507020)
I think this article places too much emphasis on input devices and hardware constraints, and not enough on software architecture. JIRA doesn't really feel any faster just because your input devices are fast; the application level latency dwarfs the input latency by a large margin.

I would take measurements, but JIRA prohibits benchmarking for some reason... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ they're probably just trying to save everyone else the embarrassment of seeing how incredibly fast JIRA is compared to their own sluggish offerings, right?

I am confident that JIRA's application latency has nothing to do with Java (backend) or JavaScript's (frontend) garbage collector.

Many companies just feel no impetus to write fast software, or to use commensurately powerful hardware.

Re:Slow Software by ploxiln on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @10:10PM (#18507642)
Jira is in a league of its own. With latest stable Firefox on a Macbook Pro from 2014, I get a full 10 seconds loading time for the notifications sidebar. Every click in Jira takes between 5 and 15 seconds. It is absolutely nuts and it seems like many people just don't understand how insanely bad it is (but obviously many engineers do ;)

Meanwhile my browser can load, render, and scroll a 4000 line colored diff in less than half a second (e.g. https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin...)

Re:Slow Software by Liskni_si on Thursday November 22, 2018 @01:12PM (#18511497)
Our team is responsible for deployment/operations of our self-hosted Jira so a few months ago I decided to make it faster, and oh what a rabbit hole that was:

When you look at Jira using Chrome DevTools there are these big batch.js and batch.css files (up to 5MB in total) that are different for every type of Jira view (dashboard, agile board, issue detail, issue search, …) so the first few page loads might be a bit slow but then they all should be cached as they don't change until you update your Jira and everything should be smooth. Except that wasn't what I saw, they seemed to be reloaded every hour or something.

Naturally I blamed Jira, and wasted hours Googling for batch.js not being cached, but eventually came to the conclusion that it can't be Jira's fault, and it isn't. Turns out it's the Google Chrome's cache backend that's used on Linux (and only there). There are three issues with it:

1. it's limited to cca 320MB even if you've got 1TB free space

2. entries are evicted by age times size, ignoring number of hits

3. media files such as 2MB youtube fragments use the same cache

The result is that watching youtube for a while evicts all cached batch.js. To make this bearable, I enabled gzip in the reverse HTTP proxy in front of Jira, which brought batch.js down to 500KB so that it's smaller than the youtube fragments and isn't evicted sooner than those. Still, few hours of watching youtube and not visiting Jira evicts it. Increasing the cache size using "google-chrome --disk-cache-size=2000000000" helps as well.

Oh and here's the link to Chromium issue tracker: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=617620 :-)

Re:Slow Software by lambdadmitry on Friday November 23, 2018 @12:56PM (#18517914)
I suspect the root of the problem is that 5mb js/CSS blob itself rather than its caching. It's absolutely nuts and its most definitely not needed for what Jira does
Re:Slow Software by LolNoGenerics on Thursday November 22, 2018 @05:30AM (#18509151)
At least we're getting paid well for watching load indicators. Atlassian should make a step forward and show funny cat gifs to increase satisfaction.
Re:Slow Software by sb8244 on Thursday November 22, 2018 @12:13AM (#18508002)
Is your jira heavily customized? I haven't seen this level of slowness and use it daily. I know that customizations can be the root of evil on jira
Re:Slow Software by ploxiln on Thursday November 22, 2018 @11:53AM (#18511049)
It looks pretty standard ... it does have GitHub integration enabled, and custom fields and workflow for each project, which seems like a pretty standard thing for organizations/users to do.

But my key anecdote is about loading the notifications sidebar after the page has loaded, there shouldn't be any customizations in there. But I dunno, maybe Jira gives managers a bit too much rope with which to hang their development teams.

Re:Slow Software by notduncansmith on Thursday November 22, 2018 @01:32AM (#18508282)
And this level of open-ended configurability is why many vendors prohibit benchmarking. While Atlassian is exceptional in some regards, this is not one of them.
Re:Slow Software by michaelmrose on Thursday November 22, 2018 @06:00AM (#18509246)
If jira is slow crap when used in the way real people use it then isn't this a meaningful fact worth sharing?
Re:Slow Software by cco on Thursday November 22, 2018 @01:43AM (#18508316)
Are you on Jira Could? I've never seen a self hosted Jira instance that slow.
Re:Slow Software by ploxiln on Thursday November 22, 2018 @11:49AM (#18511033)
Yes, it's the Atlassian-hosted version. I have heard that they did a complete re-write for the on-premise version, but will probably never be able to replace the old codebase ...
Re:Slow Software by cco on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @08:08PM (#18557296)
Ah interesting, I think this is the disconnect I always have, I've never used their cloud based version.

This reinforces for me that JIRA should always be self hosted.

Re:Slow Software by aprdm on Friday November 23, 2018 @01:44AM (#18514808)
We host our own Jira on-prems behind an apache server and it's pretty fast. I am actually surprised by how fast it is.

In previous job we used jira cloud and it was terrible.

Re:Slow Software by setquk on Thursday November 22, 2018 @03:13AM (#18508603)
Try Tempo for JIRA. Seeing 60 second load times for pages sometimes. I’m going to have to open a timesheet entry for filling in timesheet entries.
Re:Slow Software by Underqualified on Friday November 23, 2018 @11:22AM (#18517327)
In my company we use a PLM system for technical drawings. Jira is an absolute dream compared to that.
Re:Slow Software by bartread on Thursday November 22, 2018 @05:57AM (#18509230)
> I think this article places too much emphasis on input devices and hardware constraints, and not enough on software architecture.

No it does not: it clearly makes the point that due to device, hardware, OS, and framework latencies your application has very little time budget in which to respond and still feel fast to users. This will necessitate considerable effort in terms of architecture. I don't see how that's under-emphasising it.

To have a useful discussion on architecture within the article they'd have to talk about the specifics of different software and applications, which obviously vary considerably according to the requirements for said software and applications.

The danger with that sort of thing is that some people will say, "well, if we use architecture X then our application will feel fast," disregarding many of the detailed requirements of their domain that mean X won't always (or possibly even ever) perform well.

To some extent that's unavoidable but I think this article was absolutely on point in that it makes clear the constraints within which software developers must operate, and sensibly leaves architecture as the responsibility of those software developers.

Re:Slow Software by RBerenguel on Thursday November 22, 2018 @04:29AM (#18508914)
I wrote some Python to convert a long yaml file into jira epics/stories/deploys to avoid having to use the UI for anything aside checking what I have on my todo. Has already saved me more than it took to write.
Re:Slow Software by speedplane on Thursday November 22, 2018 @04:37AM (#18508946)
That's great for you, but I'd bet no one else can effectively use your scripts. The beauty of the UI is that anyone can use it almost immediately.
Re:Slow Software by HelloNurse on Thursday November 22, 2018 @06:47AM (#18509416)
The beauty of a shit-filled moat is that anybody can wade in without having to be able to jump it.
Re:Slow Software by TeMPOraL on Thursday November 22, 2018 @10:38AM (#18510576)
Why does this matter?

There's no obligation to always make software useful for other people. There's a lot of space between doing something manually and selling a product.

Re:Slow Software by speedplane on Friday November 30, 2018 @04:52AM (#18567957)
> There's no obligation to always make software useful for other people.

The problem, which you basically acknowledge, is that software that isn't useful generally doesn't get used. If you write nice custom scripts to make your own workflows more efficient, that's great... for you. But to make any interface "useful" (whether it's a UI, an API, etc.), it doesn't just need to be "useful", it also has to be accessible. That should help explain why even crappy UIs are so ubiquitous. They are moderately useful, but extremely accessible.

Re:Slow Software by RBerenguel on Thursday November 22, 2018 @07:02AM (#18509478)
Everyone in engineering can use it if they want, it’s in our “fun tools” repo. I have better things to do than to navigate through ticket creation UI 20 times
Re:Slow Software by ThePadawan on Friday November 23, 2018 @01:10AM (#18514692)
> I have better things to do than to navigate through ticket creation UI 20 times.

Thank you for being that sort of person.

I know some people who would take great pleasure in knowing that they would get paid for spending just that time, no matter if they achieved very little doing it.

Re:Slow Software by Aeolun on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @07:58PM (#18507265)
But to be fair, plain Jira can be pretty fast, it’s just when you get into an enterprise environment and people think they need 2000 different fields things fall apart.
Re:Slow Software by coder543 on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @08:23PM (#18507341)
I've never seen JIRA be "pretty fast", so I can't agree. I also think "2000 different fields" is an unfair exaggeration, if we're going to focus on being fair. The 10 to 20 fields that people might use per issue should not prevent JIRA from being fast with the right architecture.
Re:Slow Software by viraptor on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @08:43PM (#18507391)
Same. JIRA is just slow, even in basic configuration. Which is always annoying me because JIRA is 99% read-only. They could generate most of the pages and cache them until anything changes. Even pre-generate then on change. But every time you view an issue, it takes multiple seconds again.
Re:Slow Software by WrtCdEvrydy on Thursday November 22, 2018 @03:07PM (#18512207)
This is a common 'but sometimes' issue in software engineering.

Caching works for 99.9% of cases, 'but sometimes', I click on an issue and it was just updated just before my page rendered.

Re:Slow Software by p2detar on Thursday November 22, 2018 @05:30AM (#18509147)
I've setup Jira (on premise) at my workplace myself. Runs behind an nginx reverse proxy and it is indeed pretty fast!

We don't use much stuff and it's a bit older version 7.8, but I cannot complain so far.

Re:Slow Software by Aeolun on Friday November 23, 2018 @03:56AM (#18515250)
Installed a plain Jira software instance on Docker, that wasn’t terribly slow.
Re:Slow Software by Skunkleton on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @08:07PM (#18507292)
Why shouldn't 2000 fields be fast? Shouldn't all of what jira does boil down to straight forward SQL queries?
Re:Slow Software by flattone on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @09:17PM (#18507495)
or even 200000 etc. I've never used but at a glance i feel like it's just a google sheets tracker with unnecessary visual stuff?
Re:Slow Software by EpicEng on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @09:00PM (#18507447)
Our fresh install was noticeably slow. Even if it were fast (it's not), they sell the thing as a customizable solution. Few people get everything they need from a vanilla install. That's kinda the whole selling point.
Re:Slow Software by cimmanom on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @09:13PM (#18507482)
Don’t know about the enterprise version, but the cloud offering loads and renders like molasses.
Re:Slow Software by dnate on Thursday November 22, 2018 @12:23PM (#18511224)
We have been using jira as a very simple issue tracker with 3 users and the standard backlog, selected for development, done workflow.

Load times are atrocious. It's the slowest website I have ever seen. Maybe facebook is slower, but I don't use that as often.