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Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by seibelj on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @11:28PM (#18397078)
Has anyone tried to make an SV startup-style company sell Japanese-type toilets in America? I think a lot of people would like them
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by halbritt on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:50AM (#18397342)
I have a couple of Toto toilets in my house. They have washlets that fit most of their products. I have one.

I don't mean to overstate this, but it is life-changing. I can't imagine going back to a time when I used only paper and considered that sufficient.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by krrrh on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @01:11AM (#18397411)
I wanted to get one after visiting Japan, but I realized that it was something that would have to wait until I moved into a place with more than one bathroom, so I could leave a normal toilet in the one guests would use. I just didn’t want to have a conversation about it with every person who visited my home.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by wingerlang on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @01:45AM (#18397483)
The 'tools' are optional though?

Anyway, install a spray hose behind the toilet out of the way. I've used both the hose and the high-tech toilets and I'd pick the former any day.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by soundwave106 on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @02:20AM (#18397576)
I echo that the toilet hose or (apparently this is the common slang for them) "bum guns" that you see in many Asian restrooms would be pretty cool to retrofit to a Western restroom (they really are more sanitary than the simple paper wipe, MHO). They are indeed pretty cheap. Scanning forums, though, there are two points I see that one would have to consider.

The first seems to be that hoses / sprayers can be little more prone to leaking or, even in proper operation, creating a bit of a spray mess vs a typical Western toilet installation. Most Asian restrooms designed around toilet hoses have floor drains, so the dangers of general flooding and water mess are a lot less. Western bathrooms typically lack full-room floor drains. This point I can honestly see, which is why the built in washlet might have to be the practical solution for many Western bathroom designs unfortunately.

A more "technical" issue is that these toilet hoses may not be "up to Western code" in some countries per a few forum posts. The impression I get is the code violations are more "technicalities" due to Western code not really considering this concept. Forum posts are not what I would consider an authority, but it is enough where I think it would be a good idea to check with a plumber to see if there's any code the sprayers could somehow violate.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by setman2 on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @11:11AM (#18442036)
I just installed this on my toilet. Pretty cheap and works well! https://www.amazon.com/Astor-Non-Electric-Mechanical-Attachm...
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by rebuilder on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @04:19AM (#18398011)
When you say "Western", which countries are you referring to? I ask because in Finland at least, bidet showers are very common, although so are floor drains in toilets. Nevertheless, I'm not aware of any widespread issues with leaks or mis-spraying.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by soundwave106 on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @05:32AM (#18398265)
Sorry, by "Western" I more refer to the countries (United States, Canada, UK) where bidets of any sort do not seem to be common at all. There are also other Western countries (such as France, Germany, and Spain) where I remember bidets being common, but they were stand-alone plumbing fixtures and not a simple hose shower like you see in many Asian countries. This type is probably a lot more expensive to add onto a US bathroom or similar.

I wasn't aware of toilet hoses being standard in Finland, thanks for the information. I'm currently in Malaysia for a couple weeks and personally I am seeing a little bit of mis-spray when using some public restrooms; the misspray issue popped up when looking at forums as well as well. Maybe the issue can be more easily mitigated than I thought (personally, I don't have a problem making sure the spray stays inside the bowl) but plumbing codes might like the drain just in case (it's not easy looking up technical codes in an unfamiliar language so I'm not sure about this though :) ).

It is probably a lot harder to mitigate this type of issue with the "squat" type toilet (you see a random mixture of both types it seems over here).

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by wingerlang on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @04:38AM (#18398074)
Good points, my bathroom does indeed have a drain. As long as you don't have a carpeted bathroom I wouldn't worry too much though. Just don't have full on pressure.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by halbritt on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @09:48AM (#18399422)
No conversation needed. If people can't seem to figure it out, they're the sort that won't want to talk about it. See the aforementioned western taboo around discussing such things.

If they do figure it out, folks are generally eager to ask about where they can get one.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by bonestamp2 on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:56AM (#18397364)
A friend of mine brought a toilet back from Japan with him when he moved back and I was always in envy. I'm looking at a Toto Neorest 700H right now, it's about $5000. Is that the kind of system you'd recommend or what are you using?
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by ww520 on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @01:08AM (#18397403)
A Toto s550e is under $1000 and pretty much has all the feature you ever need, minus auto flushing.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by halbritt on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @06:09PM (#18403135)
This. I think I even have a cheaper version than that. Check Amazon for available washlets.

The mass-market Toto toilets are ~$250. Make sure you get the elongated bowl version. I have two in my house, one elongated and one round. The washlet for the round bowl was hard to source and it makes things somewhat cramped for larger people.

If I were doing it again, I'd replace the toilet with an elongated bowl version before adding a washlet.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by wingerlang on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @01:46AM (#18397485)
I agree 100% about the life changing part. But for a cheap solution, go with a hose attached to the toilet. I'd say I prefer them over the Japanese versions. More versatile and the only thing you really lose is the .. heating?
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by lsc on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @03:51AM (#18397889)
I do agree that the shower hose looking thing next to the toilet cleans just as well and is a lot cheaper, but for my money? I personally think the automatic nature of the toto is an entirely different (and, imho, better) overall experience.

(and the heating is not to be underestimated)

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by halbritt on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @06:06PM (#18403129)
Maybe. My thing has adjustable pressure, it oscillates, and one can adjust the location.

The warmed water is nice, but it has an "eco" mode so there are definitely times when it's not warmed and it's no big deal. I'd guess the biggest advantage would be the ability to just sit there and have the robotic arm take care of things for you without having to move around.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by cyphar on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @06:10AM (#18398401)
In a large part of central Europe they have bidets, which is a lower-tech version of the same thing.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by jcims on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @06:06AM (#18398385)
Holy moly, how do you pick a specific toilet from that lineup? That's hilarious.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by halbritt on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @06:11PM (#18403152)
Unless you want something fancy, just check Amazon. The most commonly installed ones are obvious and quiet a bit cheaper.

I've installed a few toilets in my day and they were always a few hundred dollars. I was a bit blown away when I discovered that some of the nicer ones could be had for $5k.

Bathtubs similarly soar in price when one wants something a little fancier.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by com2kid on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:15AM (#18397230)
Most bathrooms aren't wired for electricity near the toilet.

That aside, you can buy Toto toilets in the US. The fancy ones are north of 4k, but they are available.

Cold water sprays are readily available, $60 and a 10 minute installation later.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by mikekchar on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:26AM (#18397266)
I just wanted to point out that the US prices are pretty comparable to the Japanese prices. And after having lived in Japan for nearly a decade, I'll pay the price in a heartbeat. The previous occupants of our apartment left one in our apartment and it's one of the cheaper models (about $3-400 IIRC). It's still awesome and worth every cent. You could probably even justify it based on the reduction in toilet paper if you want to, but I don't even think of it. It's gotten to the point where when I go back to visit the UK or Canada, the lack of cleaning options is just disgusting in my mind.

Edit: weird wording

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by com2kid on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @07:46PM (#18403545)
Totally agree, I have a cold water replacement seat type of model, I can't justify getting my bathroom rewired when a $60 device is pretty close almost there. :)

My master bathroom toilet is right up against the closet my water heater is in, so the "cold" water is never that cold.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by halbritt on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:53AM (#18397354)
I have somewhat inexpensive mass-market Toto toilets in my house. I've added a washlet for $400. There's wiring nearby. The warm water is really nice.

Until I die, I won't ever not have a washlet at home.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by ojbyrne on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @11:43PM (#18397130)
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by seibelj on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @11:56PM (#18397168)
Wow, solid link. Hopefully some clever entrepreneur will make it happen, someday
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Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by seibelj on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:07AM (#18397213)
You posted a couple sentence opinion and he/she posted a link with a lot of detail and mentioned an SV startup trying to solve it, which is what I asked. So thanks for your comment, I’m not saying it’s irrelevant, but the link was descriptive and more closely matched my question
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by jesterjester on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:15AM (#18397229)
It wasn't an opinion. If you are too blind to see the facts then that's your own fault. You asked a question, you got the answer and now you're so upset with it that you're trying to hide it?

What's the point?

Here are some figures for your fingers.

A toilet lasts 10+ years easily. It costs around $200-$300 and extra to install. The installation is simple since most bathrooms have a toilet. A bidet attachment can be picked up for $300-$500 easy. The installation is usually more expensive than the seat itself. Most bathrooms don't put power outlets next to their toilets.

People aren't not using bidets because of "funny feelings" or just being shy. It's because people are too lazy, a toilet does the same thing "in their eyes". Why add complexity when the toilet itself is dirt cheap and lasts much longer than the bidet?

Maybe when they come in with bidets, not making money and not revolutionising anything, perhaps someone will come sell hangover cure drinks even though it takes 10 seconds to realise the market doesn't exist.

Feel free to ignore these facts too. It's clear you're not looking for the right answer here, just something that will echo your own thoughts.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by dang on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:42AM (#18397314)
We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the site guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by lsc on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @03:44AM (#18397858)
> Has anyone tried to make an SV startup-style company sell Japanese-type toilets in America? I think a lot of people would like them

I think google is indirectly in that business; It used to be that only my foreign friends would be likely to have a washlet, and then usually a less fancy one. But in the last decade, more and more of my American born techie friends have bought toto toilets or washlets, I assume after experiencing that luxury at google or one of the other tech companies that provide that sort of thing.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:41AM (#18397306)
Mostly you only need to replace the lid+seat to get those.

There's a few companies selling Japanese bidet seats in the UK and some that provide translated control panels. No reason they wouldn't succeed in the US too.

Only the highest priced ones are the complete toilet.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by monadgonad on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @04:37AM (#18398066)
> There's a few companies selling Japanese bidet seats in the UK

Do you have one? Are you able to make any recommendations? I'm considering getting one, but how are they powered? The idea of a power socket in my bathroom is slightly horrifying.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @06:10AM (#18398396)
We decided not to in the end.

Power is easy. Only sockets allowed in bathrooms are low voltage shaver sockets with isolating transformer.

For storage heaters, these seats, and heated towel rails in your bathroom you connect to a fixed, fused, double pole switch, spur outlet. Something like this: https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-13a-dp-switched-fused-connecti...

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by Baeocystin on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:23AM (#18397252)
BioBidet has been selling them for years. A couple hundred $ gets you a heated seat, heated water, air dry, everything. They're actually increasing in popularity stateside rapidly.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by iancmceachern on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @03:10AM (#18397731)
I would think so, I've found Toto toilets to be common in the bay area, especially in the workplaces of startups and tech companies.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by jesterjester on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @11:36PM (#18397111)
Considering people keep toilets for 5-10 years per toilet on average and the cost of a toilet is much less than the cost of an electrical bidet... It is not a great idea.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by koolba on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @11:55PM (#18397165)
5-10 years? Is that the life expectancy of the average modern toilet?

From personal experience that seems off by a few decades.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by PhasmaFelis on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:04AM (#18397198)
I have never actually heard of anyone buying a new toilet. I'm sure it happens, but 5-10 years? My parents' house still has the same toilet it had when they moved in 30-odd years ago, and it works as well as it ever did.

Also, I dunno about the electrical ones, but you can get a non-electric bidet for like $25 off Amazon. Maybe a bit more for one with hot and cold hook-ups and a temperature knob. You just run it with the nozzle aimed down until it warms up.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by robinwassen on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @01:59AM (#18397523)
In general I agree with you regarding the lifetime, the exceptions are areas that goes through expanding housing prices.

For example, good luck finding a bathroom in a central Stockholm flat that is more than 5 years old due to the housing market 2000-2017.

The amount of money spent on bathroom remodels really baffles me. Credit expansion made people throw out new bathrooms, redo them and then revaluate their flat to make the mortgage cover the cost.

A nice bathroom renovation cost about $27k while the net annual salary probably is around $40k.

Due to this, my bet is that the people depending on bathroom remodels are the people that will get squeezed first now when the housing market has turned bearish.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by jedberg on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:19AM (#18397243)
I bought three toilets when I bought my house, because the ones there were here didn't work. My in-laws bought a few toilets a couple years ago because theirs sprung a leak in the tank that was unfixable. Also, the water company gave rebates if you switched out your old one for a new efficient one.

I assume a lot of people buy toilets every day, otherwise Home Depot wouldn't have an entire aisle dedicated to them...

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by oblio on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @09:25AM (#18399277)
People build new houses, extend their current ones, replace broken ones. I'd still bet on the average lifetime of one to be over 20 years...
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by asaph on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @11:49PM (#18397149)
> people keep toilets for 5-10 years per toilet on average

Do you have any data to back this up? I would have assumed it was far less often.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by sk5t on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @11:52PM (#18397155)
Yah, who the heck is turning over their toilets twice a decade? Best guess here is 25 year average service life.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by jesterjester on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:02AM (#18397191)
Then that only proves my point further.

Toilets in my family would get replaced every 15 years.

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by Fins on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:42AM (#18397313)
And what connection could it possibly have to installation of a bidet seat?!
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by TylerE on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:05AM (#18397204)
You can but them here already. Just no one does
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by akvadrako on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:08AM (#18397214)
Where and can you also buy them in Europe? I looked when remodelling my bathroom and couldn't find anything.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by TylerE on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:47AM (#18397329)
https://www.amazon.com/MS920CEMFG

Not sure if that link works but just go on amazon and search “Toto washlet”

Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by NeedMoreTea on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:53AM (#18397355)
There were quite a few bathroom companies offering them when we did our bathroom (UK), they're available on eBay too from £40 junk to £1,000+
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by lysium on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:17AM (#18397237)
I saw an ad in the magazine “Schöner Wohnen“.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by GolDDranks on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:25AM (#18397261)
Here in Japan, most Westerners tend to hate Japanese-style toilets with passion...?
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by chairmankaga on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:32AM (#18397281)
Are you talking about the squat toilets? Because the other smart toilets are very nice, even if you don't use the cleaning options, having a heated seat in the winter is amazing.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by GolDDranks on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:39AM (#18397301)
Ah, yes. Squat toilets are usually called "Japanese style toilets" so that got me confused.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by choot on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @02:01AM (#18397530)
They are also called Turkish or Roman toilets.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by anticensor on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @12:36PM (#18400683)
Weirdly, they are called Turkish toilet in Turkish, too.
Re:Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research by Tharkun on Wednesday November 07, 2018 @02:17AM (#18397571)
Squat toilets are the best. So much nicer to poop on than your bog-standard porcelain throne. Aside from the pooping benefits, they also keep you limber by forcing you into a deep squat on a regular basis.