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Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by isoprophlex on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @11:18AM (#17707378)
Quoth Facebook, from the article:

“We don’t expose this information via our API and we don’t allow accessing or collecting data from Facebook using automated means"

Oh man what a world we live in. Facebook is free to leech your phone of every last bit of personal data... but heavens forbid an end user or journalist tries to learn something about Facebook.

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by jetrink on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @11:56AM (#17707764)
> heavens forbid an end user or journalist tries to learn something about Facebook

And more specifically, the tool is for learning what Facebook knows (or thinks it knows) about you.

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by orbitingpluto on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:29PM (#17708643)
... and which they are supposed to provide upon request.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by swsieber on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:36PM (#17708711)
... to individual users. And individually, your data isn't worth much. It's the aggregate that surfaces the really interesting things.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by __jal on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:45PM (#17708792)
> ... to individual users.

... Which is what this tool does.

And while I take your point about aggregate value, I personally have a great deal of interest in data about me.

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by rfinney on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:44PM (#17708778)
Wouldn't it be interesting to a finance firm, insurance company or potential employer?
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by jgalt212 on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:53PM (#17709455)
Yes, depending on the size of the loan a borrower would pay good money for such data on a single user.

That being said, a less nefarious use could be lender has a std mortgage rate of 4.25%, but if you give us a FB data dump, you can quality for a 4.00% rate.

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by baud147258 on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @04:46AM (#17714141)
> That being said, a less nefarious use could be lender has a std mortgage rate of 4.25%, but if you give us a FB data dump, you can quality for a 4.00% rate.

Or, with your FB, the bank realize you have an higher risk of defaulting/dying before paying the full mortgage, so they bump the rate to 5%

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by DavideNL on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:01PM (#17707807)
...depressing indeed.

At least some are trying to counter all this privacy invasion (EU, Apple, etc.) Let's hope they will continue doing so.

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by kodablah on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:06PM (#17708413)
> At least some are trying to counter all this privacy invasion (EU, Apple, etc.) Let's hope they will continue doing so.

Not so sure. While they may be doing more than FB obviously, both example parties you listed are more than happy to support privacy invasion when it furthers their ends. You don't need to lower your standards to find counter examples nor do you need praise those that are only a little less bad. In my view the word "all" in your statement is verifiably false. We should be more nuanced and call out bad when we see it no matter the org instead of giving out org-level labels.

[dead]
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by ReverseCold on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:59PM (#17708345)
> proprietary hardware, intentional slowdowns, and insane app fees

Android phones are also effectively proprietary (especially phones from manufacturers such as Samsung and Xiaomi) and seemingly get slower over time. But yes, the apps are cheaper/free thanks to sideloading and a good community.

(RMS-Mode On) What I'm referring to as Android, is in fact, Google/Android, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, Google plus Android. Android is not (really) a usable operating system unto itself (for most people), but rather another component of a fully functioning Google system made useful by the Google Apps, Google Play Services and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by the end user. (RMS-Mode Off)

If either way you're going to have a proprietary phone, you might as well pick the one that has less of an interest in data mining you.

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by adamlett on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:09PM (#17708444)
Nobody’s saying that Apple is not self interested. The claim is that it is Apple’s self interest not to violate its users’ privacy. In contrast to Google and Facebook, Apple’s business model does not require Apple to know as much as possible about their users. It does however require Apple to offer something that its competitors does not or cannot, in order to justify its higher prices. Privacy is one such thing.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by jchw on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:37PM (#17708170)
In fairness it was a pretty old phone, without a secure enclave iirc.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by colejohnson66 on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:48PM (#17708820)
> 'didnt help'

Why the scare quotes?

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by skywhopper on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:42PM (#17708220)
This line would have more impact if Facebook themselves observed any ethical or legal limitations on their own data scraping that they don't think they can get away with.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by stingraycharles on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:31PM (#17708663)
The problem is that it’s more difficult for people to get an army of lawyers to represent them than businesses. As such, it’s usually more difficult for people to defend their rights in cases such as these.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by 794CD01 on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:34PM (#17709286)
Facebook forbids them to learn something about Facebook. It was the phone's fault when they didn't limit what data Facebook pulled from it. Modern ones do just that.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by vertexFarm on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:23PM (#17708011)
Awww they don't like it when you mine their data. Poor lil' guys.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by aylmao on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:35PM (#17708704)
I mean, they're not really getting access to some secret Facebook data. They're getting access to the user's data, including their username/password.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by jeromegv on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:18PM (#17709114)
Who is "they"? Gizmodo is not getting access to the user/password neither do they have access to the user data. Quote from the article: the information was stored on individual users’ computers; we weren’t collecting it centrally
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by vertexFarm on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:37PM (#17708726)
Since the stuff they're probing isn't included in the APIs, they gotta have some account info to provide insight into this behavior.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by ehsankia on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:31PM (#17708109)
I agree with your sentiment, but then if said journalist sold said data to foreign government, then how different would that be to what happened with Cambridge Analytica?

Yes, being able to access your data is nice, but you also have to balance it with people trying to trick people into leaking their data for nefarious reasons. Obviously, here, it's an open source project and we can see that it's (probably) secure, but then where do you draw the line?

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by mc32 on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:36PM (#17708162)
First, it’s getting data about your data on your behalf —what you end up doing with your own data is kinda up to you. It’s yours. This is a great tool to shine a light on what FB knows about you.

W:re CA. FB was touting and selling this service to any and all intetested parties. It’s only retroactively that FB and others are crying foul. I mean sure, FB should not have sold thet data or made it available to any interested party, but that’s their actual business model.

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by ehsankia on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:53PM (#17708303)
> FB was touting and selling this service to any and all intetested parties.

Where do you get that from? My understanding is that the API used was closed in 2014, and existing applications were given until 2015 to stop using it. That's when the data was gathered, and that data was used later in 2016 by CA.

In this case, this is another API that is closed, and this application is trying to get around that. Again, I understand that this application has good intentions, and is hopefully secure, but they are still breaking the rules. If anything happens, then it's Facebook who is on the line.

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by csours on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:40PM (#17708200)
Sure, if that happened that would be bad, but in this case only the user of the app could see their own PYMK data - the tool did not send data to the journalists.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by minimaxir on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:41PM (#17708208)
Facebook closed up a lot of API endpoints after the CA incident became big (including public page post data, to my annoyance).
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by ehsankia on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:56PM (#17708330)
And this is one of those APIs that is closed. This application is intentionally going around it, and if any data ends up leaking, all the people in this thread demanding access to data will be the first to attack Facebook for not doing a better job at guarding user data.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by freeone3000 on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:36PM (#17708718)
It seems like they were able to get the data just fine, so they're not guarding user data now. I think the best way for facebook to protect this data is to not have it.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by Ajedi32 on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:46PM (#17708801)
Before the CA incident became big actually. Most of the APIs used by Cambridge Analytica (in particular, the ones that let apps access data about a person's friends) were removed all the way back in 2014.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by walterbell on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:53PM (#17708301)
This tool only works with the user's personal authorization and direct consent.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by mrgoldenbrown on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:23PM (#17709162)
If the journalist was selling data about themselves, which is what this tool collects, I wouldn't mind.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by aylmao on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:32PM (#17708675)
As a Facebook user I think I agree with Facebook's position here. It makes sense they block crawlers like this; especially if they ask users for their username/password.

> Facebook is free to leech your phone of every last bit of personal data... but heavens forbid an end user or journalist tries to learn something about Facebook.

I'd argue the risk isn't that a journalist is learning about Facebook, but rather that it has access to all of the users information and username/password.

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by jeromegv on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:16PM (#17709087)
Looks like you didn't read the article.

The tool was changed to redirect users to a Facebook sign-in page to log in, which is the proper way to sign in. They just found another reason to deny them access after.

It's also not collecting or centralizing data, this is just for the user that uses the tool to learn more about the tool, nothing is sent to Gizmodo.

Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by aylmao on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:30PM (#17709244)
Gotcha. After looking through the source on Github I'm more at ease. One always has to be skeptical about things that involve authenticating to important accounts.
Re:Facebook Wanted Gizmodo to Kill Investigative Tool by mrgoldenbrown on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @02:22PM (#17709149)
Can you explain where in the article you read about a crawler, or how Gizmodo would be getting any of the information gained via the app? The app in question isn't a crawler, and the information is stored on the client side, never touching Gizmodo servers.